Talk:Raiden Shogun

{{Translated page|zh|雷电将军}}

There are still some information missing in the translated page. I have no idea what {{lang|zh|御建鳴神主尊大御所大人像}} is in English. The PASH source is not available to the public, so I had a hard time figuring out what {{lang|zh|角色的技能設計以故事中角色「凝結眾生之願」為基礎，將「願望」轉化為「願力」概念，並和遊戲的元素充能機制結合}} means and ignored that sentence. --PetraMagna (talk) 14:53, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

:@PetraMagna: The English translation of "御建鳴神主尊大御所大人像" is "Statue of Her Excellency, the Almighty Narukami Ogosho, God of Thunder" ([https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Statue_of_Her_Excellency,_the_Almighty_Narukami_Ogosho,_God_of_Thunder#Other_Languages]) BlackShadowG (talk) 13:12, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

::Thanks for the help, though I'm afraid I won't be incorporating the translation into the article because

::# There's WP:FANCRUFT concerns with obscure names.

::# I was already burnt out from all the translating, and participating in an AfD doesn't help with that.

::Perhaps this discussion can help someone in the future, though. PetraMagna (talk) 15:32, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Normally I'd avoid disambigs, but part of the problem with this article is there is technically *two* Raidens involved here at once: Shogun, and El. And they can't be separated. So what I'm proposing is to move it to the more neutral name, and mention the duality in the lead.-- Kung Fu Man (talk) 02:57, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

:The new name is more precise, but would violate "use commonly recognizable names" on WP:TITLE as almost all sources refer to her as Raiden Shogun. Although greater precision would be nice, I don't think the current article title misleads readers into thinking we are only talking about the puppet, not Raiden Ei. PetraMagna (talk) 02:19, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

::It actually caused some confusion during the afd, as some of the folks commenting didn't understand it was about the same character (and a lot of the reception covers Ei as much as the puppet).--Kung Fu Man (talk) 02:28, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

:::I believe some confusion surrounding the afd was about the character being called Baal, so changing the title to Raiden would not help with this particular confusion. To me, Raiden is more inclusive than Raiden Shogun, but neither perfectly covers the broad range of titles the game and the media use to refer to her. In my opinion, Raiden Shogun being the overwhelmingly more popular name outweighs the slight benefit of having a more inclusive name. PetraMagna (talk) 22:49, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

{{Talk:Raiden Shogun/GA1}}

{{edit semi-protected|Raiden Shogun|answered=yes}}

"Standing 5 ft 5 in (166 cm) tall" should be removed or at least modified to match her in game model's height, which is 176.454 cm (with heels) and if it's without she's 169.547 cm. Granted her height without heels is merely my approximate because I don't know of a completely objective way to measure it unlike the measurement with heels. Since Wikipedia isn't allowing me to attach my images, here's an Imgur link instead https://imgur.com/a/HKinAde Phenograph (talk) 01:54, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

:We're using information from a reliable source in this case. What you're suggesting is considered original research.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 02:01, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

::The source says that its height data are based on player estimates and are speculative. The Gamer's reliability is also situational in Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Sources since it belongs to a content farm. I would say this number is debatable and if a more reliable source comes up, we should replace it. Of course, what we have so far is just OR. PetraMagna (talk) 02:52, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

:::It cited where estimations were done, and there's no note applied for Shogun's information. Unless you've got a better source than "I put a ruler on this image"...--Kung Fu Man (talk) 02:59, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

::::The article says most heights are estimates and does not provide a note for any height, so they seem to be datamined/speculative. The fact that heights fluctuate between sources confirm that. I was hoping I can find more information on the official illustration book, but it seems that they have omitted height in the character info. I would go for the status quo until Hoyoverse releases something, which may never happen. PetraMagna (talk) 03:36, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

:::::Exactly. No proper tools were used hence the fluctuating numbers. I do know of a Japanese poster that managed to get very close to my datamined measured numbers while still only using the game as a source via careful relative measurement. They even explain in detail how they did it. (https://www.hoyolab.com/article/20956615)

:::::Now if you really want something close to official then the next best thing is using datamined HI3 models of characters like Raiden Mei with canon heights (see page 16 - https://manga.honkaiimpact3.com/book/1016/1) and then compare it with Raiden Ei's datamined model Phenograph (talk) 05:47, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

:::See also [https://www.dexerto.com/genshin-impact/every-genshin-impact-characters-age-height-2203050/ this Dexerto article], [https://videogames.si.com/guides/genshin-impact-characters this sports illustrated article], and [https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/genshin-impact-characters-age-height-birthday this one from USA Today], which all put her at 5'5" - 5'6".--Kung Fu Man (talk) 03:04, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

::::I mean my source is literally the datamined model, which you guys can also verify yourselves if you wanted to. That being said, maybe we can just delete it, which I also suggested Phenograph (talk) 03:05, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

:::::There's 4 sources confirming this information, what point would deleting it do?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 03:16, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

::::It's still not accurate considering they're talking about estimates and not one source is claiming they had access to the models themselves. That being said, 5' 6" is at least acceptable if you really want to keep it. Phenograph (talk) 03:28, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Tlx|Edit semi-protected}} template. As this is clearly not an uncontroversial edit, it should not be made via the "Edit Request" procedure. PianoDan (talk) 18:31, 9 February 2024 (UTC)