Talk:September 11 attacks#Conspiracy theories

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{{Press

| title = On Wikipedia, Echoes of 9/11 ‘Edit Wars’

| author = Noam Cohen

| date = 11 September 2011

| month = January

| url = http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/12/business/media/on-wikipedia-911-dissent-is-kept-on-the-fringe.html

| org = The New York Times

| author2 = Brian Keegan

| title2 = How 9/11 Shaped Wikipedia

| org2 = Slate (magazine)

| url2 = https://slate.com/technology/2020/11/wikipedia-september-11-breaking-news.html

| date2 = November 17, 2020

| quote2 =

| archiveurl2 =

| archivedate2 =

| accessdate2 = September 9, 2021

| author3 = Stephen Harrison

| title3 = How Wikipedia Grew Up With the War on Terror

| org3 = Slate (magazine)

| url3 = https://slate.com/technology/2021/09/wikipedia-september-11-20th-anniversary.html

| date3 = September 8, 2021

| quote3 =

| archiveurl3 =

| archivedate3 =

| accessdate3 = September 9, 2021

| author4 = Alex Pasternack

| title4 = How 9/11 turned a new site called Wikipedia into history’s crowdsourced front page

| org4 = Fast Company

| url4 = https://www.fastcompany.com/90674998/how-9-11-turned-a-new-site-called-wikipedia-into-historys-crowdsourced-front-page

| date4 = September 11, 2021

| quote4 =

| archiveurl4 =

| archivedate4 =

| accessdate4 = September 13, 2021

}}

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{{Old moves|list=

RM, September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attacks → September 11, 2001 attacks, Moved, 17 January 2004, Discussion
RM, September 11, 2001 attacks → September 11, 2001, attacks, Not moved, 21 October 2004, Discussion
RM, September 11, 2001 attacks → September 11 attacks, Moved, 20 August 2008, Discussion
RM, September 11 attacks → September 11, 2001 attacks, Not moved, 13 October 2010, Discussion
RM, September 11 attacks → 9/11, Not moved, 31 March 2014, Discussion
RM, September 11 attacks → September 11 terrorist attacks, Not moved, 13 February 2021, Discussion
RM, September 11 attacks → September 11th attacks, Not moved, 14 February 2021, Discussion
RM, September 11 attacks → September 11, 2001 attacks, Procedural close, 23 February 2021, Discussion
RM, September 11 attacks → 9/11, Not moved, 26 January 2024, Discussion
RM, September 11 attacks → September 11 terrorist attacks, Not moved, 9 February 2024, discussion.

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{{Merged-from|Slogans and terms derived from the September 11 attacks|date=22 October 2015}}

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Bizarre Misquote in the "Planning" Section

This part of the "Planning" section is based on a misquote of the original source and should be removed from the article.

"However, Lawrence Wright wrote that the hijackers chose the date when John III Sobieski, the King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania, began the battle that turned back the Ottoman Empire's Muslim armies that were attempting to capture Vienna in 1683. Vienna was the seat of the Holy Roman Empire and Habsburg monarchy, both major powers in Europe at the time. For Osama bin Laden, this was a date when the West gained some dominance over Islam, and by attacking on this date, he hoped to make a step in Islam "winning" the war for worldwide power and influence."

This explanation seemed so bizarre and out-of-place for me, I felt the need to check the original source. In his book "The Looming Tower" Wright states.

"Viewed through the eyes of men who were spiritually anchored in the seventh century, Christianity was not just a rival, it was the archenemy. To them, the Crusades were a continual historical process that would never be resolved until the final victory of Islam. They bitterly perceived the contradiction embodied by Islam’s long, steady retreat from the gates of Vienna, where on September 11—that now resonant date—in 1683, the king of Poland began the battle that turned back the farthest advance of Muslim armies. For the next three hundred years, Islam would be overshadowed by the growth of Western Christian societies. Yet bin Laden and his Arab Afghans believed that, in Afghanistan, they had turned the tide and that Islam was again on the march."

There is nothing here to suggest that Bin Laden chose this date specifically to avenge a historical Muslim defeat. Wright states that Islam's so-called "decline" against the Christianity fueled the Jihadist anger towards the West, but nowhere in the book he makes a claim that the date of Second Siege of Vienna was chosen for the 9/11 attack.

There are other issues with this dubious claim. Why would a Jihadist who had a Salafist approach to life even celebrate the Ottoman Empire which was seen as a corrupt and irreligious polity? (especially considering how Wahhabists declared a Jihad against the Ottomans in the 19th century). Secondly, the Ottomans used the Islamic Calendar, so for Muslims, the final battle of the Siege of Vienna happened on the 3rd of Ramadan, 1094 AH, and not on 9/11. Thirdly, the theory of perceiving the Siege as a pivotal date leading to the decline of the Muslims has been long refuted in the academic circles. Lastly, this battle and its effects do not have any special place in the Muslim mindset. It is surely important in the nation-building myths of Central and Eastern Europe, and for the far-right Christian nationalists but the Islamist mindset is mostly shaped by the wars led by the Prophet, the Muslim expansion during the first four caliphs and the Arab-led Umayyad and Abbasi Caliphates.

In summary, Wright does not claim a connection between 9/11, and the Second Siege of Vienna. There are no references to this date in Bin Laden's writings and speeches. This section is a total fabrication which clashes with the source mentioned in the article and the historical facts.

This section should be removed from the article completely. 85.104.173.70 (talk) 14:15, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

:I looked into it, and our cite is to this article: https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/03/how-jihadists-schedule-terrorist-attacks/

:That article does cite Wright's book, but it sounds like they completely misconstrued him based on what you've quoted here. It looks like Foreign Policy just quoted him out of context to support their assertion. As such, I've removed that section from our article. Good catch! — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 19:12, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Mossad's list of 19 agents

Basically every 9/11 Wikipedia page (except this one!) features a claim that Mossad turned over a list of 19 names to the CIA a few weeks before 9/11 and at least a few of the 9/11 terrorists were on that list. The sourcing for this is wild: I see one edit done [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nawaf_al-Hazmi&diff=prev&oldid=34995646 way back in 2006!] to the page for Nawaf al-Hazmi. They all seem to share the same source, either to [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/2294487.stm this BBC article] that mentions an Israeli report but doesn't mention any shared names, or [https://web.archive.org/web/20080306024238/http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a082301mossad a link to the third-party Cooperative Research website which is really just aggregating links to a few stories]. The ultimate source of the claim seems to be newspaper Die Zeit but I can't find that article. Several Wiki articles also claim that these names were passed through to the FBI who put them onto some watchlists but did not thoroughly search for them.

Anyway, I am bringing this up because that whole chain of citations is a bit stinky. Nobody's got an actual source saying Mossad turned over four hijacker names. It neatly lines up with some anti-Israel conspiracy theories. But, if it is true, it firmly puts the blame for not catching 9/11 squarely in the FBI's lap, so that would mean we need to cut out some of this "the CIA and FBI weren't working together" commentary.

My comments here are meant to reach out to the 9/11-obsessed editors of Wikipedia and maybe start an RFC. Are there better sources for this claim? If so, let's put them in. But if not, it's time to do a pass over Wikipedia and delete this claim because I am seeing it on a lot of pages. Lordgilman (talk) 22:04, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

Name

Since everyone calls it 9/11, why don't we call it that or "9/11 attacks" 107.201.182.97 (talk) 18:29, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

:Because in some places that could be read as 9th of November. Slatersteven (talk) 18:40, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

:Outside the US, 9/11 would be read as November 9th. Most news sources also refer to the event using "September 11th" and very rarely 9/11. It makes complete sense the Wikipedia article would, therefore, read "September 11". Butterscotch5 (talk) 19:15, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 April 2025

2601:602:D285:9540:54CA:77F1:A142:A8F4 (talk) 07:18, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

I want to add something that was incorrect.

:File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 15:31, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 April 2025 (2)

CheeseGuy223 (talk) 07:21, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

I need to fix something there was something incorrect.

Help me

I taught I can add a new thing to Wikipedia but it’s wrong place oh what the hell Adf636 (talk) 02:24, 23 April 2025 (UTC)