Talk:Stateless nation#James Minahan's books as sources and references

The "List of Stateless Ethnic Groups" link shouldn't link to List of active autonomist and secessionist movements. The Roma are stateless, but they aren't a secessionist group.

{{ping|Vatasura}} Please review WP:OR policy and avoid original research. We can only summarize what is in one or more reliable published sources. The Languages of the World: An Introduction by Asya Pereltsvaig source states nothing about Dravidian state/nationalism, nor does the Minahan source conclude "the Tamil people are one of the largest stateless nation" (refer to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stateless_nation&diff=774878738&oldid=774860524 this edit] of yours). I have no issue summarizing Tamil or Dravidian or whoever in this "Stateless nation" article, but a reliable source must state so. {{ping|Ian.thomson}} since you have interacted with @Vatasura, your WP:3O would be appreciated. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 15:08, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

:I think it whould by WP:OR, if it claim Tamils are the largest stateless nation, but the edit claim Tamils are one of the largest stateless nation, this is a big diffrent. Comparing with the population of the other stateless nations, it is safe to say that Tamils have one of the largest population. This edit never claim that Dravidian are a nation or such things, it says only that Tamils belong to Dravidian linguistic group (a language family) who dont make up majority in any country in South Asia.

• India (Hindi, Indo-Aryan)
• Sri Lanka (Sinhala, Indo-Aryan)
• Maladives (Dhivehi, Indo-Aryan)
• Pakistan (Urdu, Indo-Aryan)
• Bangladesh (Bengali, Indo-Aryan)
• Nepal (Nepali, Indo-Aryan)
• Buthan (Dzongkha, Tibeto-Burman)
• Afganistan (Pashto, Iranian)

:What is wrong to mention the truth, that there is no sovereign state in South Asia with a Dravidian speaking majority?

:As already mentioned, it is only an example to show that stateness nations can also have a large population. Vatasura (talk) 02:50, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

::You ask, "What is wrong to mention the truth, that there is no sovereign state in South Asia with a Dravidian speaking majority?" Wikipedia is not the place for WP:ADVOCACY or WP:SOAP. Nor is this article a place for random factoids such as "Pluto is far far away" or "there is no sovereign state for women in South Asia" or "there is no sovereign state for people who are taller than 5 feet or less than 180 lbs in South Asia" or "there is no sovereign state for [pick one of zillion language or ethnic groups] in this or that country or continent". All this is WP:OR. Please also see WP:FORUM and WP:TALK. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 17:34, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

:::Your comparison is absurd and shows a certain degree of ignorance toward the subject.Vatasura (talk) 01:20, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

• {{Ping|Kashmiri}} There is a long-term consensus not to add Tamils. They are not stateless. Capitals00 (talk) 14:11, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
• :@Capitals00 Can you point me to that consensus please? It's certainly not in this section. — kashmīrī ^TALK 14:32, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
• ::The above discussion is actually clear why Tamils should not be added here. It has been restored by those who havent even checked the sources that were assessed right above. Capitals00 (talk) 14:35, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
• :::@Capitals00 This is not any sort of consensus, please do not misrepresent. This is a discussion of TWO editors who disagreed with each other about quoting a source. Please read WP:CONSENSUS to get an idea of what it means on Wikipedia. Additionally, you've deleted the entry for Tamils at least 10 times in the last year or so, and you were reverted each time by different editors. If you continue edit warring in this article, you might end up being dragged to a noticeboard I'm afraid. — kashmīrī ^TALK 14:48, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
• ::::I read it as one experienced editor refuting the bad edits made by another editor who had nothing other than assuming bad faith. That is how consensus was formed not to restore the same bad addition.
• ::::Yes a lot of drive-by editors are going to try their ways to impose their POV on this article but that is not enough for us to tolerate bad edits.
• ::::I have reverted you since you have been already told that none of these sources support the claim of being "stateless". If you continue restoring this misleading content then you will surely end up at an appropriate noticeboard. Capitals00 (talk) 14:59, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
• :::::The discussion above was not at all about having Tamils in or out. It was about language-related claim. — kashmīrī ^TALK 15:34, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
• ::::::Even if you are correct, the fact remains that Tamils are not qualified for this list. To make it more comfortable for you, I would remind you that nearly all other listed names have been recognized by at least one UN agency to be stateless, but that is not the case with the Tamils. I read it as one experienced editor refuting the bad edits made by another editor who had nothing other than assuming bad faith. Capitals00 (talk) 15:51, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

{{od}} I would like to hear some notable names who are demanding separate Tamil nation or those who talk about Tamils being stateless. REDISCOVERBHARAT (talk) 06:38, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

:Check out the links in the last column that you keep deleting. — kashmīrī ^TALK 17:31, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

::That means you agree with what I told. REDISCOVERBHARAT (talk) 12:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

:::? — kashmīrī ^TALK 13:19, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

There is a large number of Stateless Nations that I propose can be added based on these two books, both of which have many sources within them to back up each entry.

(https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=OLKKVXgEpkoC&lpg=PP1&dq=stateless%20nations&pg=PR5#v=onepage&q=stateless%20nations&f=false)

and

(https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NwvoM-ZFoAgC&pg=PA1&dq=abazin+nation&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiWh4DQzdvcAhWwx4UKHWP-B-EQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=abazin%20nation&f=false)

These are the first five additions I would propose. If those two sources are not enough then I can send more to back up these peoples being called 'Stateless nations'.

Abkhazians

Abazins

Gagauz people

Kalmyks

Cantabrian people

In page of Wikipedia there weren’t a list about Stateless nations, Why?

What problem cite Scottish people and Scotland as Stateless nation, or the Karen people, or Catalonia, etc….

2804:18:90A:2481:ED60:289C:A7D7:C805 (talk) 00:11, 22 July 2024 (UTC).

:Thanks for bringing this up. A list was there but someone has deleted it. I've now brought it back. — kashmīrī ^TALK 00:39, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

::Agree, the list should be included. It should not be removed without consensus and discussion. My very best wishes (talk) 15:52, 17 September 2024 (UTC)