Talk:Syed Ahmad Khan#Requested move 11 July 2023

:The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. The supporters cite WP:COMMONNAME claiming that including "Sir" is more common and therefore more natural, recognizable, precise, and consistent (but, notably, excluding the 5th article titling criterion concision). The opposition cites the topic-specific naming criteria to show that wider consensus is against the idea that including "Sir" is more natural, recognizable or precise, and show that renaming would be inconsistent with our article titling scheme. The supporters did not effectively argue why NCPEER doesn't apply here, and mostly continued to assert that "Sir ..." is the common name. Not counting the blocked sock puppet, the opposition has a numerical majority and the stronger policy argument, so there's a rough consensus against the use of "Sir" in the title. — Wug·a·po·des 02:21, 24 January 2025 (UTC)

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:Syed Ahmad Khan → {{no redirect|Sir Syed Ahmad Khan}} – the proposed title be adopted as per WP:COMMONNAME. Even though Sir is a title, it's often part of how people commonly refer to him—just like Mahatma Gandhi (see Mahatma). The RM also adheres to WP:NPOVNAME, similar to the naming convention followed for Alexander the Great. It also feels more recognizable, natural, consistent, and precise, which is exactly what WP:CRITERIA suggests. Plus, all major English-language sources, including used in the article supports this RM.[https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/the-mixed-legacy-of-sir-syed-ahmad-khan-7603209/], [https://www.britannica.com/biography/Sayyid-Ahmad-Khan], [https://www.jstor.org/stable/24372961], [https://www.newindianexpress.com/web-only/2024/Oct/18/badruddin-tyabji-or-sir-syed-ahmad-khan-the-dilemma-of-indian-muslims], [https://frontline.thehindu.com/books/sir-syed-ahmad-khan-biography-book-review-shafey-kidwai/article33886231.ece], [https://books.google.com/books/about/Sir_Syed_Ahmad_Khan.html?id=wYMeAAAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y], [https://www.jstor.org/stable/20775054], [https://www.dawn.com/news/1363851], [https://muslimmirror.com/remembering-sir-syed-ahmad-khan-on-his-birth/], [https://www.rekhta.org/authors/sir-syed-ahmad-khan/profile] TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 17:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 12:24, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose Per WP:NCPEER. I appreciate he is widely known with his prefix, but this applies to many other people with the titles Sir and Dame.

:Rafts of Calm (talk) 18:07, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

• Strongly oppose, The title "Sir" is an institutional honor bestowed by British authorities, with similar titles being conferred by various governments. Once awarded, it is common practice in written materials to include such titles alongside an individual’s name. Professional titles like Doctor, Engineer, and Barrister are also frequently used in this manner. Countless examples can be found, such as "Doctor ABC" or "Engineer ABC." However, this practice should not be treated as establishing a "common name," as seen in the case of Mahatma Gandhi. If such usage were considered a standard, the titles of numerous Wikipedia articles would need to be changed, as many individuals have formal titles. Personally, I was familiar with Gandhi from early age, but I only discovered his real name in my late teenage years while studying his profile. Titles in Wikipedia article naming are justified only when they become an integral part of the person’s identity, such as in the cases of Mahatma Gandhi or Maulana Azad. "Mahatma" is not a formal title, yet it is how Gandhi is primarily known. Similarly, while "Maulana" is a formal title for Islamic scholars in the Indian subcontinent, Azad did not have formal religious education or recognition but is widely known by the title. These are exceptional cases and do not apply to "Sir Syed Ahmad Khan."–𝐎𝐰𝐚𝐢𝐬 𝐀𝐥 𝐐𝐚𝐫𝐧𝐢 ʕʘ̅͜ʘ̅ʔ 01:33, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• Support to Sayyid Ahmad Khan, I don't agree with using "Sir" as per opposing editors above. However, I do believe this page should be moved to Sayyid Ahmad Khan as that's the correct spelling which he himself used and what is WP:COMMONNAME in reliable sources:
• JSTOR: "Sayyid Ahmad Khan" [https://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?Query=%22Sayyid+Ahmad+Khan%22&so=rel 1,028 results] - "Syed Ahmad Khan" [https://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?Query=%22Syed+Ahmad+Khan%22&so=rel 553 results]
• Brill Publishers: "Sayyid Ahmad Khan" [https://brill.com/search?level=all&q0=Sayyid+Ahmad+Khan 3,829 results] - "Syed Ahmad Khan" [https://brill.com/search?level=all&q0=Syed+Ahmad+Khan 884 results]
• Taylor & Francis: "Sayyid Ahmad Khan" [https://www.tandfonline.com/action/doSearch?AllField=%22Sayyid+Ahmad+Khan%22 167 results] - "Syed Ahmad Khan" [https://www.tandfonline.com/action/doSearch?AllField=%22Syed+Ahmad+Khan%22 107 results]
• Google Scholars: "Sayyid Ahmad Khan" [https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22Sayyid+Ahmad+Khan%22&btnG= 6,120 results] - "Syed Ahmad Khan" [https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22Syed+Ahmad+Khan%22&btnG= 4,110 results]. Mirza Elia (talk) 12:05, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
• Strong support, Sir is the part of the common name for him, most searches posted by Mirza Elia above whether they are for Sayyid version or Syed version carry Sir with the name. If we can have Sir Henry Wilson, 1st Baronet, Sir David Baird, 1st Baronet, Sir Charles Clarke, 3rd Baronet, and many others then what is the problem for adding Sir here in the article title. My first preference would be Sir Sayyid Ahmad Khan though. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 11:14, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
• :WP:NCPEER explains why these baronet articles include the Sir. Rafts of Calm (talk) 21:42, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
• :
• Strong support, Sir is now a common name for him, like the common names of Maulana Azad, Mahatma Gandhi and some others mentioned above by Sheriff. Taabii (talk) 13:03, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose. We don't use "Sir" in article titles except for baronets with a suffix. Many knights are commonly known as Sir [Foo] (e.g. Sir Winston Churchill). He's not any sort of exception. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:18, 16 January 2025 (UTC)