Talk:Syrian civil war#rfc A7186A7

The war is over. Treatys with the SDF and Syrian Government along with all largescale fighting ending makes the “ongoing” status untrue. Any small scale insurgency should be moved to a different article sense it does not fall under the definition of a civil war. Ebedit (talk) 06:50, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Mostly because there's been no general consensus. Though I agree that the article should be split. 2806:290:881F:B532:5616:21C:2B29:95A5 (talk) 04:41, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

::Syrian civil war ended completely in January 2025. But wikipedia doesn't liste. 2409:40C0:1068:DC8:5F35:3D4A:6B5A:2D47 (talk) 15:54, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

:::I disagree it ended January there was fighting in Feburary so I think the end date would need to be listed as after Feburary though I do think it shoudn't be listed as ongoing due to the many sources that say its over https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/21/drones-are-above-our-heads-kurdish-led-sdf-fights-for-survival-in-syria GothicGolem29 (talk) 14:15, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

::::{{u|GothicGolem29}}, what we think doesn't really matter, what matters on Wikipedia is what reliable published sources say. See below, "#Sources for the end of the war". – Asarlaí ^(talk) 15:29, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::I provided a reliable source showing fighting was continuing in Feburary so its not just me thinking it a source is backing up fighting continued in Feburary GothicGolem29 (talk) 16:52, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::{{u|GothicGolem29}}, please see the last paragraph of my post under #Sources for the end of the war. – Asarlaí ^(talk) 17:37, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::I did see them some backed my argument others backed yours for December. And your also relevant article of the peace deal the SDF signed would go towards my argument as that’s after February when that faction signed peace, GothicGolem29 (talk) 20:18, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::::And I found another source talking about the SDF fighting in February https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g0w0x28yxo.amp GothicGolem29 (talk) 20:22, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::You're invited to post any sources you find in the discussion below. Also note that we need sources saying clearly that the Syrian civil war is still ongoing, not merely that there's some lingering violence that usually follows civil wars. – Asarlaí ^(talk) 21:24, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::My argument isn’t that it’s still ongoing my argument is that it went on longer than December 2024 so if you just want sources saying its ongoing I won’t post them as that wasn’t my point nor what the articles say. As for the lingering violence generally I would agree however this was pretty heavy fighting between two of the participants in the civil war(though the title of the bbc one includes one of the sides saying they are still at war.) GothicGolem29 (talk) 21:30, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

:Why it is currently listed as ongoing is answered in the above FAQ on this page. A discussion is also ongoing here about if it is/should be listed as being over. Mason7512 (talk) 20:40, 29 June 2025 (UTC)

:Proposal: Rebel victory — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.33.6.142 (talk) 12:32, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

:See the discussion below, "#Sources for the end of the war". – Asarlaí ^(talk) 15:29, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

When it is over is determined by (good quality) sources (plural) explicitly telling us that it is. Views like this source says X then we can infer Y are WP:SYNTH. Nonetheless, there are claims that there are sources telling us that it is over. On the other hand, any ongoing conflict reasonably implies that it is not over.

We had an RfC that determined that the fall of the Assad government did not mark the end of the war - ie at the time of the RfC, the war was not over. However, things can change but we are governed by the sources. That does not mean that we should have an RfC every month until we get a result that the war is over. There needs to be a good source based case (WP:RFCBEFORE) before we go down that path again and if there is a good source based case, then we can probably reach a consensus without the need for an RfC.

I propose that this section be kept open as a central point of discussion for RFCBEFORE for a reasonably structure discussion. I suggest that the editors that watch and contribute to this page reach some agreement on how this structured discussion might work. The proposal for a structure discussion is to help prevent discussions from becoming unproductive train wrecks. My suggestion on structuring the discussion is as follows:

An editor might open a subsection to this thread to present a source based case that the war is over that relies on what the sources (plural) say and which does not rely on SYNTH or ANALYSIS (eg because the US has ended trade sanctions, that means that the war is over). A discussion which is clearly SYNTH, ANALYSIS or unsubstantiated opinion may be summarily closed and collapsed. If, after a reasonable discussion, there is no consensus (say at least seven days) a case may be closed. In commenting on a case, editors should give substantive reasons regarding the strength of the case and not just opinions like I agree (ie they should point to why they agree, indicating the strengths or weaknesses of the case). This page falls under WP:GS/SCW&ISIL. We may ask for WP:ARBECR, which would limit discussion to ECP editors. Cinderella157 (talk) 01:02, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

:I really have no idea why it should be considered still ongoing, almost all hostilities besides minor hit and runs are done. It's hardly even an insurgency. Yesyesmrcool (talk) 20:04, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

::Wikipedia needs reliable sources to say it’s over. GothicGolem29 (talk) 00:14, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

:::There’s plenty. Idk2716639 (talk) 20:48, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

::::Could you provide some please? I had a look before I made that reply and could not find any GothicGolem29 (talk) 21:29, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

:::And yet it doesn't need reliable sources to specifically use the word "ongoing" in the lede? That seems like a weird way to place the burden of proof...

::: Tomatoswoop (talk) 03:05, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

::::There are sources about the status in the info box and those can apply to the lede statement too(im not entirely sure why they aren't in the lede too but I would not oppose that.) GothicGolem29 (talk) 12:13, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

These sorts of comments represent opinion without substantiation and are precisely why these discussions go nowhere and are a waste of time. {{U|Idk2716639}}, instead of saying {{tq|There’s plenty}}, how about you open a thread under this and present the sources and make a case for saying it is over so that other editors can scrutinise the sources and your case and discuss whether it has merit. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:15, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

::How about you and others bother to read the long list of sources presented here, back in April? Johnbod (talk) 03:26, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Its not a question of bothering for me I didn't see that archive till now but I will read them GothicGolem29 (talk) 12:28, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

::::So, do we agree to change the vital info in this article? Idk2716639 (talk) 12:42, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::if by changing {{tq|1=the vital info in this article}}, you mean marking the civil war as over, with december 2024 as the end date, then no, we dont agree. See Template:Campaignbox Transitional government to know why 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 13:17, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::How many times do i have to explain that this is a separate event? Do we have one page that covers up every single conflict in yemen since 1960 as one war? No. We have one for the north yemeni civil war, the ensuing two south-north yemen wars, the south yemeni civil war, etc. Idk2716639 (talk) 15:16, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::I have no idea what the purpose of this bad comparison is... The North Yemen civil war was between the Kingdom of Yemen and the Yemen Arab Republic, and the Aden Emergency (Was never called the "South Yemen civil war" btw, in fact, there was never a conflict called the "South Yemen civil war") was between 5 insurgent groups and 23 states under british protection. Why would those two completely different wars be under a single article? 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 15:26, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::And also, your argument is not backed up by any sources so far as of the writing of this comment, unlike mine. The template isn’t enough of a source. Idk2716639 (talk) 15:17, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Do I really have to list every single source in use in each one of those articles? 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 15:27, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::The question for me after reviewing sources is change the vital info to what? I would strongly oppose changing the end date to 2024 given the SDF was still fighting turkish Rebels beyond that. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/21/drones-are-above-our-heads-kurdish-led-sdf-fights-for-survival-in-syria https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/14/world/middleeast/syria-kurdish-militia.html

:::::Beyond Feburary 2025 I am less sure after looking at sources and there does seem to be a case for making a change later on in 2025 to the status GothicGolem29 (talk) 15:18, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::The country is still in a state of conflict, but its low scale. And i provided sources that prove that post-civil war conflict is separate from the syrian civil war of 2011-2024, the conflict following 2024 is heavily reminiscent of the iraqi insurgency post american occupation & its increasingly seen as sectarian violence considering the sectarian & ethnic nature of it.

::::::If it’s so necessary, let’s wait up to another 6 months to see how the situation fares and have this discussion again. Idk2716639 (talk) 17:06, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::I read your sources some claimed the war ended others didn't state it explicitly that it ended but I didn't see much proof that the current fighting is not part of the civil war what proof are you referring too in those sources that proved that? I would argue its low scale now but for a while it wasn't There was a whole sdf offensive after December 2024 land was taken land was lost and there was alot of fighting.

:::::::That is a good idea. GothicGolem29 (talk) 17:15, 23 June 2025 (UTC)

:https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/gallery/2024/12/10/the-end-of-syrias-forever-war

:https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/negotiators-zero-potential-deal-disarm-syrias-last-battleground-2025-01-19/

:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/08/syrias-revolution-hangs-in-the-balance-the-west-must-lift-sanctions-now

:https://www.vox.com/world-politics/390261/syria-bashar-assad-damascus-civil-war-refugee

:https://apnews.com/article/mazloum-abdi-sdf-alsharaa-islamic-state-kurds-6519679f1e4e51da60767391c005976f

:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/12/ministers-from-17-countries-meet-in-saudi-talks-on-speeding-aid-to-damascus

:These sources indicate the end of the civil war Idk2716639 (talk) 08:38, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

::notice how all of them are news 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 08:58, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Why does that matter? GothicGolem29 (talk) 00:27, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

::It needs to be more than indicating the sources need to say the war is over. The first article and the fourth both state the war ended the others haven’t from what I read GothicGolem29 (talk) 00:26, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

As noted above by {{u|Cinderella157}}, this article depends on what the majority of reliable published sources say, not our own opinions (see verifiability). {{u|Johnbod}} pointed out the list of sources posted a while ago. I've found many more reliable sources saying that the war ended in December 2024:

• {{cite news |title=The end of Syria’s forever war |url=https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/gallery/2024/12/10/the-end-of-syrias-forever-war |work=Al Jazeera |quote=Rapid advances by Syrian opposition forces end a war that began with peaceful protests before spiralling out of control. |date=Dec 2024}}
• {{cite news |title=Monday briefing: How the decade-long war in Syria ended almost overnight |url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/09/first-edition-syria-bashar-assad |work=The Guardian |date=Dec 2024}}
• {{cite news |title=FACTBOX – Syria: the war in numbers |url=https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20241216-factbox-syria-the-war-in-numbers/ |work=Middle East Monitor |date=Dec 2024 |quote=14 years of war and brutality that ended with the fall of President Bashar Al-Assad}}
• {{cite news |title=Demoralized and abandoned by allies: Why Syria’s army didn’t fight for Assad |url=https://www.timesofisrael.com/demoralized-and-abandoned-by-allies-why-syrias-army-didnt-fight-for-assad/ |work=The Times of Israel |date=Dec 2024 |quote=toppling former president Bashar al-Assad as his army simply melted away. The rout abruptly ended a 13-year conflict}}
• {{cite web |title=How Turkey Won the Syrian Civil War |url=https://www.foreignaffairs.com/turkey/how-turkey-won-syrian-civil-war |website=Foreign Affairs |date=Dec 2024}}
• {{cite news |title=Syrians mark a month since al-Assad’s overthrow with concert in capital |url=https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/9/syrians-mark-a-month-since-al-assads-overthrow-with-concert-in-capital |work=Al Jazeera |date=Jan 2025 |quote=It’s been a month since Bashar al-Assad was overthrown, ending more than five decades of his family’s rule in Syria and almost 14 years of civil war.}}
• {{cite web |title=The Gulf Shifts Policies in Response to the “New” Syria |url=https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2025/01/the-gulf-shifts-policies-in-response-to-the-new-syria?lang=en |website=Carnegie Endowment for International Peace |date=Jan 2025 |quote=On December 8, 2024, armed militias toppled the brutal dictatorship of the Assad family, ending a nearly fourteen-year civil war in Syria.}}
• {{cite web |title=America Can Best Help Syria by Getting Out |url=https://www.foreignaffairs.com/syria/america-can-best-help-syria-getting-out |website=Foreign Affairs |date=March 2025 |quote=Syria’s 13-year civil war ended abruptly in December}}
• {{cite news |title=The reluctant collaborator: surviving Syria’s brutal civil war – and its aftermath |url=https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/mar/13/the-reluctant-collaborator-surviving-syrias-brutal-civil-war-and-its-aftermath |work=The Guardian |date=March 2025 |quote=When the forces of Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS)...swept into Damascus at the end of the war}}
• {{cite news |title=Syria ends military operation against al-Assad loyalists after days of fighting |url=https://www.euronews.com/2025/03/10/syria-ends-military-operation-against-al-assad-loyalists-after-days-of-fighting |work=Euronews |date=March 2025 |quote=Syria's new caretaker government announced the end of a days-long military operation against fighters loyal to overthrown president Bashar al-Assad on Monday, marking the worst fighting since the years-long civil war ended in December.}}
• {{cite news |title=With Assad gone and Syria's war over, the White Helmets have a new mission |url=https://www.npr.org/2025/04/21/nx-s1-5361048/syria-white-helmets |work=NPR |date=April 2025}}
• {{cite news |title=U.S. Toughens Demands on Syria’s New Islamist-Led Leadership |url=https://archive.is/2025.04.18-100422/https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u-s-toughens-demands-on-syrias-new-islamist-led-leadership-695bff58 |work=The Wall Street Journal |date=April 2025 |quote=ousted President Bashar al-Assad from power in December, ending the country’s 13-year-long civil war.}}
• {{cite news |title=UN development arm plans for $1.3 billion in help for Syria, top official says |url=https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/imf-world-bank-meetings-discuss-restoring-support-syria-un-official-says-2025-04-18/ |work=Reuters |date=April 2025 |quote=Syria - hit hard by 14 years of conflict that ended when former leader Bashar al-Assad was ousted by a rebel offensive in December}}
• {{cite news |title=‘I thought I’d died.’ How land mines are continuing to claim lives in post-Assad Syria |url=https://apnews.com/article/syria-landmines-assad-amputations-03f8c5672c9dd943622cd622c8d80b6c |work=Associated Press |date=April 2025 |quote=While the nearly 14-year Syrian civil war came to an end with the fall of Bashar Assad on Dec. 8, war remnants continue to kill and maim.}}
• {{cite news |title=At least 249 dead as Syria's land mines continue to kill civilians months after civil war ends |url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/itll-take-ages-to-clear-them-at-least-249-dead-as-syrias-land-mines-continue-to-kill-civilians-months-after-civil-war-ends/articleshow/120450495.cms |work=The Times of India |date=April 2025}}
• {{cite news |title=Syria’s Jihadist-Turned-President Seeks New Allies |url=https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/23/world/middleeast/syria-president-al-shara-interview.html |work=The New York Times |date=April 2025 |quote=the country emerges from a nearly 14-year civil war}}
• {{cite news |title=Israel and Turkey begin talks to avoid conflict in Syria |url=https://www.ft.com/content/5fe34023-a81f-4f1a-baf5-4059b69121c9 |work=Financial Times |date=April 2025 |quote=Islamist rebels toppled the regime of Bashar al-Assad in December, ending more than a decade of civil war.}}
• {{cite news |title=Syrians heading home find few of the basics needed to survive |url=https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/05/1163431 |work=UN News |publisher=United Nations |date=May 2025 |quote=after more than 13 years of civil war that ended with the fall of the Assad regime last December}}
• {{cite news |title=Syrians face daunting rebuild after years of war |url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyg20822j7o |work=BBC News |date=May 2025 |quote=It began in 2011 and finally ended with a rebel victory in December 2024.}}
• {{cite news |title=From al-Qaeda to Syria's presidency, the rise of Ahmad al-Sharaa |url=https://abcnews.go.com/International/al-qaeda-syrias-presidency-rise-ahmad-al-sharaa/story?id=121788656 |work=ABC News (United States) |date=May 2025 |quote=Syria's civil war ended in December when al-Sharaa and a band of rebel fighters overthrew the government of strongman Bashar al-Assad.}}
• {{cite web |title=Postwar Syria Is Still Suffering Under US Sanctions |url=https://newlinesmag.com/argument/postwar-syria-is-still-suffering-under-us-sanctions/ |website=New Lines Magazine |date=May 2025 |quote=The war is over, destruction is ubiquitous and Syria’s economy is still strangulated.}}
• {{cite news |title=Will Syrian war criminals ever face justice? |url=https://www.dw.com/en/syria-war-criminals-justice-bashar-assad/a-73095218 |work=Deutsche Welle |date=June 2025 |quote=Thousands of Syrians are still missing after the war ended in late 2024.}}
• {{cite news |title=News Analysis: Türkiye to maintain strategic foothold in Syria amid U.S. retreat |url=https://english.news.cn/20250610/008141efb776433493434849e67647e3/c.html |work=Xinhua News Agency |date=June 2025 |quote=While the Syrian civil war ended in December with the fall of former President Bashar al-Assad's government, the military dynamics in the north remain volatile}}
• {{cite news |title=Trump signs executive order eliminating Syria sanctions program |url=https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-executive-order-syria-sanctions/ |work=CBS News |date=June 2025 |quote=The Assad government collapsed in December as rebel groups, including fighters led by Sharaa, swept into Damascus, ending a 13-year-long civil war.}}

These are also relevant:

• {{cite news |title=Syria's interim president signs deal with Kurdish-led SDF to merge forces |url=https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/syria-reaches-deal-integrate-sdf-within-state-institutions-presidency-says-2025-03-10/ |work=Reuters |date=March 2025}}
• {{cite news |title=Druze leaders in Syria agree to disarm after sectarian clashes |url=https://www.thejc.com/news/world/druze-leaders-syria-disarm-sectarian-violence-wugyxlra |date=May 2025}}
• {{cite web |title=Iran Update, May 27, 2025 |url=https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/iran-update-may-27-2025 |website=Institute for the Study of War |quote=Pro-Assad Alawite insurgent attacks targeting the Syrian transitional government and Sunni communities have become increasingly rare compared to the height of insurgent activity in March 2025. ... The lack of insurgent attacks in April and May ... suggests that the insurgency has weakened significantly. ... Fighting in southern Syria between local Sunni fighters, Druze militias, and government forces has also largely ceased since early May.}}

If editors find any more, please post them.

Do any sources say that the civil war hasn't ended as of mid-2025? We can't say that "the Syrian civil war" is still raging just because sources report some sporadic violence and revenge killing - that would be self-analysis or synthesis. We would need sources saying clearly that the civil war is still ongoing, not merely that there's some violence. – Asarlaí ^(talk) 14:31, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

:I personally believe that it is entirely misleading that it is still listed as ongoing. The "assadist insurgency" has ceased to exist in my opinion and now is just sporadic attacks every few months. The Israeli invasion has slowed and that's a foreign invasion not a domestic one. Yesyesmrcool (talk) 22:34, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

:@Asarlaí I just wanted to say that the list you put together here is really impressive. Gj. Fephisto (talk) 01:15, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

:It’s complete insanity how this problem isn’t fixed, the editors still won’t change the status even after many have comment sources here and other places that the war is over. And, at least as far as I have read, no one has posted any source claiming it is still ongoing. Because, obviously it is not ongoing. There is only talk of violence in Syria, but every country on the face of this planet has some violence 24/7, and in Syria’s case, it’s not even involving the original combatants. This is supposed to be a place for factual and up to date information. GNorman1987 (talk) 04:13, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

Couldn't it just be put directly in the article? "Syrian civil war" is the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere?target=Template%3ASyrian+civil+war+infobox&namespace=&hidelinks=1&hideredirs=1&limit=50 only article] which uses it, and putting it directly on this page would make it easy to deal with the duplicate references. I was going to try fixing the duplicate references, but most, if not all, are duplicate because one source is used in both the infobox and the article. Is there any way to use named references if they're on different pages? 🌳 Balsam Cottonwood (talk) ✝ 01:20, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

:I agree. There may have been a reasonable justification when there was a high volume of edits to a very large infobox but neither justifications remain. Cinderella157 (talk) 01:14, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

::I have listed it at templates for discussion. 🌳 Balsam Cottonwood (talk) ✝ 02:00, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

:im a little confused why other articles would have the syrian civil war template in their infoboxes? Surely it would only ever be in this one and so not a reason to delete it? [User:GothicGolem29|GothicGolem29]] (talk) 16:05, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

::Technically, the template is not going to be deleted; I just listed it in the hopes that it would be moved to this article, that is, so people can edit the infobox while editing the article. Right now the infobox is transcluded from the page Template:Syrian civil war infobox, which makes it difficult (maybe even impossible) to deal with duplicate references. 🌳 Balsam Cottonwood (talk) ✝ 18:56, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Ok my mistake wrong term shouldn't be delete in that but rather move. I think your duplicate references reason is a fair reason and I can understand that its just a bit confusing to me why you also included as a reason that the map not being in other infoboxes when other infoboxes are generally not about this civil war so won’t include them.GothicGolem29 (talk) 23:52, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

https://npasyria.com/en/126678/

Reports came out that turkish occupation basically ended in Northern Syria TheDeredzh (talk) 16:31, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

:pinging @Ecrusized to update the map :) 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 16:38, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

::Is there a map of latest changes? ISW still shows northern areas as being under Turkish control. I also think a better source is needed to declare the Turkish occupation to be over. Ecrusized (talk) 18:11, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

:::in the article it says aleppo governorate only so i believe only western parts of the eupharates but the eastern parts are probably still under occupation, now the source claims that the governor himself declared this so i believe this is a good enough source. 31.9.174.1 (talk) 05:41, 29 June 2025 (UTC)

111. I say we give it a year. If no significant fighting outside of hostilities breaks out by March 2026 we declare the war over. If there's a major return to fighting later that year we can judge whether or not it would count as a seperate war or just a lengthy pause depending on what exactly the root of the issue of.

W The map is badly outdated and was honestly never fully accurate for December because the situation moved so fast no 'reliable' sources reported the specifics of half ofBut we should have a way better picture currently. The Syrian Free Army joined the new government earlier this month, Syrian National Army did a few months ago. 90% of the desert is in the governments hands because literally no one else controls that area. It's just the government, the Druze force(assuming that's still going on?) the SDF, and the American and Turkish occupation zones. Plus the insurgency. it. .

2

2

2 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:50C7:57CC:77A2:DAC5 (talk) 04:07, 1 July 2025 (UTC)

:Is your proposal that after the year if no major fighting happens that the war is declared to have ended in march 2026? GothicGolem29 (talk) 11:53, 3 July 2025 (UTC)

::NoNo it would have ended around March 2025 if there continues to be nothing as that's when the major agreements were signed and there's been no major fighting between territory controllers since, just the Alawite massacres and insurgencies.

::anwhile if the SDF ends up fighting or getting invaded in the next year or so I'd say that's part of it and so we hold off on declaring it over. e

::n

::M

::M 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:EC16:F2FB:9BB7:9598 (talk) 22:20, 3 July 2025 (UTC)

:::Ohhh ok thanks for the answer. I think it could be declared over now after a previous talk page provided enough evidence for me to consider it over (specifcally in regards to declaring now I mean we declare now which period in 2025 it ended)but I would accept this waiting a year idea as a compromise. GothicGolem29 (talk) 23:02, 3 July 2025 (UTC)

::::Yeah it's mainly the SDF to watch, there could easily be more fighting there as they haven't signed an agreement. Small chance of a more successful Assadist uprising taking some cities, but that one seems unlikely.

::::Also if a Golan peace deal is signed that would technically mean there's no longer any territory occupied(as either Israel leaves or Syria officially cedes the territory) especially since the Turkish troops seem to be working with the current government and Julani abandoned the claim on Hatay officially a few days ago. That's also a potential ending point to look at. 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:8DCA:8AAB:5AF2:A38D (talk) 20:58, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::There was a deal signed which says the SDF will join the military branches amongst other things https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cedlx0511w7o its possible the agremeent could collapse and fighting resume we will have to see. Yeah unlikely those Assadist rebels take a city

:::::Good point that would be a possible end point to look at though the signing of the sdf agreement is another unless fighting starts up again after that. GothicGolem29 (talk) 21:06, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

The Syrian National Army and Free Army have both merged with the new government(even our sidebar mentions the former happened back in March, and the latter happened in June as seen here [https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-856275 Syria builds a new military from several armed groups after Assad's fall | The Jerusalem Post]).

The Turkish forces in Afrin have also allowed the new government in and are working with them, meaning no need to color it differently. https://hawarnews.com/en/clashes-in-occupied-afrin-result-in-injuries and seeing as the base's RCA/SFA guys joined the new government and Trump is normalizing relations the same effectively applies at Al-Tanf, no need to mark it specially for the same reason we don't mark bases in Germany.

So really aside from the insurgents, the only thing that should still be on the map are the New Government, the SDF. and MAYBE the Turkish occupation zone over in the middle of SDF territory as I can't find any sources that they handed that over and Turkish forces are still there. (Oh and I guess Golan though that's being worked on). We can also clean up all that grey zone in the desert that's only there do to Assad collapse, the government has it since the RCA/SFA joined up with them and the SDF withdrew behind the river there. I'm also pretty sure the Druze thing was one specific clique backed by Israel and not the whole of the province, and with their negociations that's largely not a thing right now, but you can hold off on that I guess. 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:8DCA:8AAB:5AF2:A38D (talk) 21:15, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

:I agree with most of this. There is no need for the huge grey areas they should really be shown as Syrian armed forces and the FSA doesn’t need to be shown seperately for the reasons you said. It should really only be the Israeli controlled areas SAF SDF Turkish occupation. Can I ask though why does that article show they let them in is that because that city is Turkish rebel controlled and the gov is operating there? GothicGolem29 (talk) 12:43, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

:pinging @Ecrusized 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 13:23, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

::I don't know about this. Turkey still holds significant forces in northern Syria that was under the control of SNA factions, and hasn't withdrawn any of its troops. Just because a dejure united army was announced doesn't mean that HTS and SNA are the same army now. Besides, ISW and other maps still show it separately, so any combined map would be original research.

::Techinically even SDF agreed to be a part of the new Syrian government, but still functions as a de facto independent state. Ecrusized (talk) 13:34, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

:::What about all the grey parts on the map? Could they now be changed to Syrian Armed Forces? GothicGolem29 (talk) 13:51, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

::::This was discussed on the files talk page a few months ago, with an example map present, but it was opposed back then. c:File talk:Syrian Civil War map.svg#Should the "Lost Regime Territory" be shown as under HTS control? Ecrusized (talk) 13:53, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::thanks for the answer. At least two here including me support changing it to Syrian Army control might be worth another discussion. GothicGolem29 (talk) 14:10, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

:::SDF hasn't gone through with the merge yet while the other two did in March and June. 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:DD48:AD3:2A32:3E69 (talk) 22:19, 11 July 2025 (UTC)