Talk:Tension Tour#So the set list is wrong

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Livelikemusic, please stop edit-warring. Your changes are ridiculous.

No world-class star performs a headline tour in small towns. The concert in - for example - LDLC Arena is not a concert for the residents of an insignificant suburb of Décines-Charpieu, but for Lyon. It's logical. Sometimes it happens that the main arena is located in the suburbs. This is a normal.
Your version makes life difficult for readers, readers have the right to see major cities as venues for concerts. The names of the small suburbs are not known to readers and make it difficult to obtain information. For years, it has been standard to use the names of major cities rather than smaller suburbs for concerts, both on Wikipedia and elsewhere.
We cannot use double standards. It is against Wikipedia's rules. For example, other singers like Katy Perry use main city for the The Lifetimes Tour, even though it will use the same arenas (Accor Arena etc). It is unacceptable to apply different standards to Kylie Minogue (names of suburbs) and other pop-stars like Katy Perry (names of main cities).
Some of your changes are technically incorrect. You [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tension_Tour&diff=1263634542&oldid=1263628625 used] the name "Bercy" as a city, the problem is that it is part of the city of Paris and not a separate city
The main source {{URL|https://www.kylie.com/live/}} used the names of the cities like "Paris", "Manila", "Chicago" etc and not the names of the suburbs where the arena is located.

So, calm down please a bit and let's use common sense. 77.222.224.161 (talk) 02:14, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

: Firstly, third-party sources are cited within the Background section, therefore, primary source (which was not only improperly cited, but also improperly placed) should not be used. As exampled at their own venue pages, the full address (of location) is used. And while we really shouldn't be exampling other Wikipedia pages, as they can often be filled with the ignorance of several manual of style policies, amongst other issues, the Eras Tour is a prime example. The SoFi Stadium is labeled as Los Angeles in promotional materials, while it is in Inglewood. The same situation applies to this page, as well. The Allstate Arena is in Rosemont, not Chicago as labeled in the vast sources previously-sourced in the Background section. This is the standard that is presently in-practice across multiple concert tour articles. You place the actual location within the table, with the {{Tl|Efn}} noted what it's noted as within promotional/billing materials. This also happens at the article for the 1989 World Tour, which is an approved good article, which wouldn't have been approved if this kind of issue was a problem. As you can see, I have debunked your third point, and it's why we shouldn't always rely on what other articles attempt to do, because as you can see, the standard in-place at this tour article is used on other articles. Also, please don't tell me to "calm down," I don't find that a very civil thing to do, as I am quite calm, nor is telling someone to use "common sense" quite civil, and could be seen as a personal attack of one's intelligence. And, quite often, larger-known cities are the ones noted as they're more likely to be recognized in widespread media. In example of the Allstate Arena, people may be more inclined to know Chicago in comparison to Rosemont, where the arena is actually located. livelikemusic (TALK!) 02:59, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

:: I made further edits to compromise, based on the infoboxes for some of the venues. livelikemusic (TALK!) 03:13, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

:::*You wrote that we shouldn't look at other articles in Wikipedia, and you base your entire statement on examples from other articles in Wikipedia. Okay, we can assume that it works both ways. There are examples of articles where suburbs are places for concert, and there are articles where major cities are places for concert. Well, it happens. That's not conclusive.

:::* There are two different points of view and there are sources supporting both the use of the suburb's name and there are sources using the name of the main city. Wikipedia has core rules (Wikipedia:Five pillars) and mechanisms that need to be implemented in such situations - Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Both versions we can use at the same time, for example: Décines-Charpieu (Lyon). I am willing to compromise. I made further edits to compromise. 77.222.224.161 (talk) 01:33, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

:::: Except, if we are using other articles—which my point was kind of to say we shouldn't—your "compromise" is too cluttered and, is partially why the notation exists; from an outward viewpoint, looks amateur and Fandom-lite. livelikemusic (TALK!) 02:29, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

:::::You say: "too cluttered" - maybe for you. This is just your personal opinion and FLUFF does not apply here. You must have forgotten where you are. This is not the place to undo another user's changes because you want to, because you have such an opinion, because in your opinion your version looks nicer. We have two different points of view here, each of them supported by sources. You have no right to push your version using an edit war. I gave up my version and accepted the compromise, and you only restore your version. Your version violates the NPOV rule. Your actions like this will no longer be accepted. 77.222.224.161 (talk) 01:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

:::::: Okay, so issuing intimidation tactics, such as "You must have forgotten where you are," "This is not the place to undo another user's changes because you want to, because you have such an opinion, because in your opinion your version looks nicer," and "Your actions like this will no longer be accepted" isn't acceptable, per WP:UNCIVIL/WP:IUC, especially when they were not even my own actions—especially following your previous statement(s) telling me to "calm down". I did not undo any of the edits and, if you did look at the page's edit history, you'll see only in one instance was it quasi-undone by me—in fixing other edit(s) (1264826096) for which the so-called "compromise" was not placed back in—which was not intentional at all. Everything else was undone by anonymous editors (1266057360 1266230235 1266231289)—which would, in suggest (sans discussion) that other editor(s) disagree with the compromise put in place, based on usage in other articles, etc. So, instead of not assuming good faith and coming in looking for a battle, come in and ask, "Hey, what happened?". Because, while I disagree with your edits (which I don't view as a compromise at all, as it was neither discussed nor agreed upon)—per WP:CONSENSUS—I also did not undo the edits. livelikemusic (TALK!) 02:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Fan request(s)

As noted in the set list from opening night, both "Breathe" and "I Should Be So Lucky" were performed as fan requests during the concert. As we've seen with concert tours like the Eras Tour (Taylor Swift), Meaning of Life Tour (Kelly Clarkson) and Short n' Sweet Tour (Sabrina Carpenter), these kind of alternating songs are becoming a more popular trend, and should more information come out of subsequent set lists⏤if they are reported on⏤then a sub-section for the songs can/should be made, and the inclusion of the previously-mentioned songs could be changed to "fan request" (sans quotations). This seems like the most logical path to take at this time. livelikemusic (TALK!) 15:54, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

:I tried to make this section but someone keeps removing it without reason. The sources are not the best ones but that is what people witnessed during the concerts. Mmaabento (talk) 15:40, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

:: That's a lie. Reasons were given each time. If you would read your own talk page or even the edit summaries, you would see why it's being removed. Setlist.FM is not a reliable source as it is user generated (per WP:ALBUMAVOID) so its inclusion is unacceptable. Plus, you continue to violate WP:CITEVAR and MOS:NUM in your edits, as well. livelikemusic (TALK!) 15:43, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

So the set list is wrong

{{archive top|reason=User who started the discussion has been blocked for their disruptive behavior. As I had stated in my explanation at the bottom of the discussion, Livelikemusic is in the right and had shown the reasons why we need to stick to the sources provided. That said, enough time has been wasted on this, and it is time to move forward. HorrorLover555 (talk) 23:09, 26 February 2025 (UTC)}}

So there is an issue with all the sources of the setlist so far that don't accurately depict the actual show. This is confirmed by videos from the actual show. So every time we revert an edit to match the exact information in the source we are incorrectly depicting what happened. For example Come Into My World is not actually The Abbey Road Version entirelyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkeV5bwNzYA, Taboo is a video interludehttps://youtube.com/shorts/b-YMajKCjPk?si=5WjM24YVLtAG8PnU and not performed on the show and Last Night A DJ Saved My Life is performed at the end of the Disco medley by the band. But the news report sources aren't showing this so how do we work around it? Without having my edits which are actually correct reversed every ten minutes. BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 12:51, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

I have now made sure all changes have been sourced. BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 13:36, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

: You state "every time we revert an edit to match the exact information in the source we are incorrectly depicting what happened," but per Wikipedia we must stick to the source. Those videos are not reliable (WP:YOUTUBE) not to mention, the sources you did add in not only were improperly cited (WP:CITEVAR), but you also included original research, which is not allowed on Wikipedia. Also, [https://www.thenote.com.au/gigs/review-kylie-minogue-adelaide-entertainment-centre the Note] is also a questionable source at best, so its inclusion is questionable, and is also from the second show in Adelaide, while the two main sources (Entertainment Focus, News.com.au), as well as the "pre-recorded" note from PerthNow (which states nothing about it being a video, nor an interlude) are more reliable. Reliability is key on Wikipedia. And, as well, two sources (over one) list "Last Night a D.J. Saved My Life" as its own song, so therefore it remains its own performance number. Additionally, the PerthNow source (in-article) also does not list any medleys ({{aka}} "Last Night a D.J. Saved My Life" is its own performance, which is also supported by Entertainment Focus), [https://www.timeout.com/melbourne/news/heres-all-the-information-for-kylie-minogues-tension-tour-in-melbourne-times-tickets-and-set-list-021925 Time Out magazine lists everything as its own performance, while noting "pre-recorded" for "Taboo"], [https://qnews.com.au/setlist-revealed-as-kylie-minogues-tension-tour-begins/ QNews also lists "Last Night a D.J. Saved My Life" as its own song, while noting the fan requests from the first night and noting the act separations—which is mirrored from PerthNow] and [https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/tours/kylie-minogue-opens-tension-world-tour-in-perth/news-story/3dcbe8182b91037e98a459338c9dc83c News.com.au lists "Last Night a D.J. Saved My Life" as its own performance number]. Not to mention, to change content after opening a talk page discussion (which came after multiple warnings, mind you), could be see as violations of both WP:STONEWALL and WP:DISRUPT, so please keep that in mind while the discussion is on-going. livelikemusic (TALK!) 16:21, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:: I believe I'm seeing violations of both WP:STONEWALL and WP:DISRUPT from yourself here. I've sourced both things and I don't appreciate you reverting them every single time. You have been warned by me. Please do not do this again.BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 20:44, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

::: Clearing out an active discussion is highly inappropriate, and your continued disruptiveness is highly concerning; I did not stonewall and disrupt; I restored the edits as they were when you opened the discussion. If you don't want to continue discussing to find resolution (which would not show good faith), then that's another story. We talk, we don't revert, which is what you're not doing; in fact, you ignored every single source I provided, which more-so substantially supported the song being performed on its own versus part of a medley (which one source only provides). This is personal in any way, shape or form (using "you have been warned by me" is also sightly uncivil battleground-like behaviour; I am here for a discussion to seek resolution. livelikemusic (TALK!) 21:18, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:: No problem. Let's talk. I have sourced an edit just then and you've reverted it. I have WP:STICKTOTHESOURCE as you say, a reliable one I might add and yet you have still reverted it. Why?BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 21:31, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

::: We were discussing, and then you chose to delete the entire conversation, to then go on and violate behavioural guidelines. You chose to ignore the multiple sources which contradict the one you provided (for a second time); not to mention, you shouldn't be making any edits right now while this discussion is ongoing. That is the definition of violating WP:STONEWALL. Once a discussion begins, edits should not be made, especially once a discussion is opened and in process. livelikemusic (TALK!) 21:35, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:::: No problem. I follow now. With that said two of the sources don't even mention Last Night A DJ because its only about 30 seconds performed by the band at the end of Where Does The DJ Go? as a quick change occurs. At no point does Kylie even sing the song. Now I have provided a source that at least does show how its presented correctly, I believe the Official Charts source can be used to accurately display this information. I am here to seek a resolution also.BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 21:38, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

::::: Above, I listed four independent, highly reliable third-party sources, in conjuncture with the one of the two sources in article, that support "Last Night a D.J. Saved My Life" as its own performance. Only one cites it as not; by that determination, a stronger siding for it being its own performance is what would be stronger in cited material. You stating "because its only about 30 seconds performed by the band at the end of Where Does The DJ Go? as a quick change occurs." is a violation of WP:OR. We don't do original research on Wikipedia. Not to mention, your citation is a violation of WP:CITEVAR. Once more, your edit shouldn't have been made while a discussion is happening; it is a violation of WP:STONEWALL right now. The burden of proof is on you to prove your claims, and one citation versus five is not proving it. livelikemusic (TALK!) 21:44, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::: No problem, I'm learning as I'm relatively new at this. Apologies if I've done it incorrectly. I am trying to accurately depict the show so thats why I provided the extra source. I feel that the Official Charts source is just as highly reliable. In my above comment I'm saying that this is what happened in real life, so I'm trying to get a reliable source to support it. Not trying to violate WP:OR, trying to support it.BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 21:50, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::: I should also add that two of the other sources don't even mention "Last Night a D.J. Saved My Life" and the one that does has it incorrectly depicted. So the Official Charts one would be more accurate.BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 21:55, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::: Except, your additional source contradicts the burdened proof that shows claims more effectively (separate performance vs. medley). I'm not questioning the validity of the source; what I am questioning is one source versus the more word of five sources which contradict the one. The burden of proof would indeed be proven by five sources citing the song as its own performance. And unless a source states something, you cannot introduce it into article (or even argument) as fact. That's original research on your behalf, and Wikipedia doesn't allow that. Also, please do not leave your responses below {{Tl|Reflist-talk}}, as it interrupts the discussion. As for the inclusion of the song, again, five sources include it. I just did not add them in as, again, per WP:STONEWALL I am unable to. livelikemusic (TALK!) 21:56, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: I'm only seeing four sources and two (Entertainment Focus, Perth Now) don't even mention "Last Night a D.J. Saved My Life" and one mentions it incorrectly (News.com) and then the Official Charts one I've provided mentions it correctly. Wouldn't that be the most accurate depiction? Also not all sources even show its a medley.BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 22:02, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::: Given how much has been repeated, confusion has been met. However, the burden of proof is on you (not me) to show weight on your side of the argument, and it is not there. So, let me break it down:

::::::::: 1 (most proven, burden met): solo number ([https://qnews.com.au/setlist-revealed-as-kylie-minogues-tension-tour-begins/] [https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/tours/kylie-minogue-opens-tension-world-tour-in-perth/news-story/3dcbe8182b91037e98a459338c9dc83c] [https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/tours/kylie-minogue-opens-tension-world-tour-in-perth/news-story/3dcbe8182b91037e98a459338c9dc83c])

::::::::: 2: not included ([https://www.perthnow.com.au/entertainment/kylie-minogue-full-tension-tour-2025-set-list-revealed-c-17735172] [https://entertainment-focus.com/2025/02/15/kylie-minogue-tension-world-tour-setlist-revealed/])

::::::::: 3 (least proven, burden not met): medley number ([https://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/kylie-minogue-tension-tour-setlist-songs-dates-tickets/])

::::::::: Do you see it now? You've not met the burden of proof for it being in a medley. You stating something is incorrect is, once again, WP:OR violation! We stick to the sources, and the majority of sources cite it as its own solo number in the set list. Not to mention, the Official Charts Company source states it is the set list for the 20 February concert (yet to happen), while the rest (as noted in article) is from the 15 February concert (already happened). They cannot properly predict what the 20 February concert is if it has yet to happen. It is a three (solo) versus two (not included) versus one (medley) argument. By the weight of sources, it is a solo number in the set list, based on sticking to the source, not original research. Original research will never win. livelikemusic (TALK!) 22:14, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::: Did you mean to include that News.com source twice, there's more to say it wasn't even there at all.

:::::::::: '''1 (most proven, not included): ([https://www.perthnow.com.au/entertainment/kylie-minogue-full-tension-tour-2025-set-list-revealed-c-17735172]) ([https://entertainment-focus.com/2025/02/15/kylie-minogue-tension-world-tour-setlist-revealed/]) (https://www.timeout.com/melbourne/news/heres-all-the-information-for-kylie-minogues-tension-tour-in-melbourne-times-tickets-and-set-list-021925)

:::::::::: '''2 (equally proven, standalone):([https://qnews.com.au/setlist-revealed-as-kylie-minogues-tension-tour-begins/])([https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/tours/kylie-minogue-opens-tension-world-tour-in-perth/news-story/3dcbe8182b91037e98a459338c9dc83c])

:::::::::: 3 (least proven, burden not met): medley number ([https://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/kylie-minogue-tension-tour-setlist-songs-dates-tickets/])

:::::::::: By this it would be more correct to not include it at all and make the songs not part of a medley. I'm not sure that would work. I think this discussion could go on for a while, the source showing how it is accurately displayed in the show is the Official Charts one. I feel this falls in the Reliability of Wikipedia standard. It's also important to note journalists don't always get it right.BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 22:37, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::: But who is to state Official Charts Company got it right against the other publications, as the sole source (when, again, has predicted what the yet-to-happen 20 February concert set list will be when we're going off of the 15 February performance as noted)? Again, you keep saying the other sources are wrong without any kind of verifiable, acceptable burden of proof other than your own word (WP:OR), which as stated multiple times, is not reliable or acceptable on Wikipedia. Either way, one source including in a medley versus others stating otherwise is not going to be the viable argument. And actually, there IS a third source for stand alone ([https://au.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/kylie-minogue-begins-world-tour-in-perth-72202/ Rolling Stone Australia]) which is already sourced in the reception section, and what I meant to link above. So, technically:

::::::::::: Standalone: ([https://qnews.com.au/setlist-revealed-as-kylie-minogues-tension-tour-begins/ QNews] [https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/tours/kylie-minogue-opens-tension-world-tour-in-perth/news-story/3dcbe8182b91037e98a459338c9dc83c News.com.au] [https://au.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/kylie-minogue-begins-world-tour-in-perth-72202/ Rolling Stone Australia])

::::::::::: Not included: ([https://www.perthnow.com.au/entertainment/kylie-minogue-full-tension-tour-2025-set-list-revealed-c-17735172 PerthNow] [https://entertainment-focus.com/2025/02/15/kylie-minogue-tension-world-tour-setlist-revealed/ Entertainment Focus] [https://www.timeout.com/melbourne/news/heres-all-the-information-for-kylie-minogues-tension-tour-in-melbourne-times-tickets-and-set-list-021925 Time Out])

::::::::::: Medley (suspected set list for yet-to-happen date): ([https://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/kylie-minogue-tension-tour-setlist-songs-dates-tickets/ Official Charts Company]) livelikemusic (TALK!) 23:05, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::: Okay so how do we depict something that's historically accurate versus sources that got it wrong? WP:AD Truly, it doesn't even need to be mentioned, it should just be a 'contains excerpts of' situation at most. Kylie never actually sings the song, the backing singers sing a few bars. Would it be best to just not include it at all?BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 00:23, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::: I'd like to point out that ([https://qnews.com.au/setlist-revealed-as-kylie-minogues-tension-tour-begins/ QNews] that you keep using says Taboo is a video interlude and also includes Last Night A DJ Saved My Life as part of the medley which is what I've been saying all along. BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 00:44, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::: They changed their post, because per the [https://web.archive.org/web/20250216034553/https://qnews.com.au/setlist-revealed-as-kylie-minogues-tension-tour-begins/ archived capture] it was its own separate song, and "Taboo" had no note about it being anything but "Taboo". You keep stating she "never sings the song" and I keep having to remind you: that is original research and cannot be used on Wikipedia so please stop stating it.

livelikemusic (TALK!) 01:05, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Looks like they realised their initial mistake then. Great! So now we have a source that shows Taboo as a video interlude and Last Night… as part of the medley. Great find, thank you! Going forward would you like to include Last Night A DJ Saved My Life as part of the medley or exclude it as some of the sources do?BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 03:30, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

: You seem to continually ignore the fact you're attempting to use original research as reasoning for your decision-making, which you cannot do. "they realized their initial mistake" is a reach, and one that with an archived URL, shows at one-time they did back the original claims. You also continue to ignore that Official Charts is predicting (WP:CRYSTAL) a set list ({{xt|songs for Melbourne Rod Laver Arena on 20th February 2025}}) to a show that has yet to happen—despite multiple sources for the concert that actually happened (15 February) exist and do not list it as part of a medley. We stick to the source, not original research. If game is being played fair, its exclusion from the set list is the predominate sourcing burden. At the same time, it's also key to wait for more people to involve themselves into the conversation, because this will be a circle of the same [ignored] arguments. livelikemusic (TALK!) 03:51, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

:: No problem. Moving on from that we can wait to see if other people agree with the QNews and Perth Now sources also before we make any additional edits. After that I’m happy to use QNews and Perth Now as the two main sources for the setlist. Again, thank you for finding that, I’m glad additional reports have had historical accuracy in their reporting BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 05:24, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

::: Once again (for the final time) that is original research, which is in an invalid argument, so please stop using it. livelikemusic (TALK!) 05:40, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

:::: No problem. My vote is we stick to the source that QNews and Perth Now give us.BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 10:43, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

::::: I'm finished with this conversation now. The setlist will change as the tour goes so it looks like there will be a show that better represents the tour in the future. This conversation is redundant as a better source will become available. I'm happy to end it. So use whichever source you deem better, use that. If a different show on he tour has a more relevant setlist that represents I'll update it or any other user then. So which source do you want to use for now?BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 19:43, 20 February 2025 (UTC) BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 19:34, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::: I am waiting for other users to engage in conversation, as I don't feel this two-way conversation is in any way constructive, helpful, assuming of good faith, polite, or civil at this point in time — which is what talk page discussions should be as noted at the top of talk pages. livelikemusic (TALK!) 19:54, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::: I think you proved your point. Do whatever you like, I don't want this conversation to even exist anymore. The setlist will change from opening night. Are you going to revert that if I change that too? Like if I make edits and source them will you just revert them? I definitely can't assume good faith from the above examples from yourself.BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 20:07, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: You've made this into a personal issue when it never was. Sorry if you felt it was but I can assure you it never was. At any point in time. I've tried demonstrating good faith while following Wikipedia's policies and guidelines (and even explaining them, ad nauseam) throughout the entire day yesterday (and it was the entire day), just for the conversation to remain stagnant with the same things just being repeated non-stop, without any sign of resolution coming. So, I will be waiting for more editors to participate, to create a more productive, success conversation with resolve. Also, removing entire conversations on a talk page that is not your own is against community guidelines, and is highly disruptive. livelikemusic (TALK!) 20:26, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

(uninvolved) "{{tq|see if other people agree (05:24, 20 Feb)}} WP:3O could've prevented escalation to ANI. The second half of the edit summary of {{diff||1276615413}} looks WP:POINTY. "{{tq|per the archived capture}}" but WP:RSAGE says {{tq|Be sure to check that older sources have not been superseded}}

; New https://www.popelera.net/setlist-kylie-minogue-tension-world-tour/

: Taboo ({{langx|es|Interludio|lit=Interlude}}), "Where Does the DJ Go? / Last Night a D.J. Saved My Life" with slash

; New https://guestpectacular.com/artists/kylie-minogue/events/2025-02-18/australia/adelaide/adelaide-entertainment-centre

: Taboo absent, "Where Does the DJ Go? / Last Night a D.J. Saved My Life" with slash

; In-article https://entertainment-focus.com/2025/02/15/kylie-minogue-tension-world-tour-setlist-revealed/

: Both absent

; In-article https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/tours/kylie-minogue-opens-tension-world-tour-in-perth/news-story/3dcbe8182b91037e98a459338c9dc83c

: Taboo unlabelled, "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life" below "Act IV"

; In-article https://www.perthnow.com.au/entertainment/kylie-minogue-full-tension-tour-2025-set-list-revealed-c-17735172

: Taboo pre-recorded, "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life" absent

; In-article https://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/kylie-minogue-tension-tour-setlist-songs-dates-tickets/

: Taboo unlabelled, "Where Does the DJ Go? / Last Night a D.J. Saved My Life" with slash

; In-discussion https://qnews.com.au/setlist-revealed-as-kylie-minogues-tension-tour-begins/

: Taboo (video interlude), "Where Does the DJ Go? / Last Night a DJ Saved My Life" with slash

; In-discussion https://www.timeout.com/melbourne/news/heres-all-the-information-for-kylie-minogues-tension-tour-in-melbourne-times-tickets-and-set-list-021925

: Taboo (pre-recorded), "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life" absent

; In-discussion https://au.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/kylie-minogue-begins-world-tour-in-perth-72202/

: Taboo unlabelled, "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life" under "Act IV"

; Summary

:; Taboo

:: 2 interlude, 2 pre-recorded, 2 absent, 3 unlabelled

:: Based on 2 vs 2, I recommend describing a dispute between interlude vs pre-recorded. The 2 absent vs 7 is fringe. The 3 unlabelled is ambiguous or not worth mentioning.

:; "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life"

:: 4 with slash, 2 under "Act IV", 3 absent

:: Based on 4 vs 2, I recommend (continuing) using the slash and not listing under "Act IV". I do not recommend mentioning the Act IV POV because that would require first mentioning the more popular "absent" POV which is absurd.

Disclaimer I'm not a music expert. I just know my sources use the slash. The reliability of news.com.au is in doubt, but it seems this is the norm here. 173.206.110.217 (talk) 10:37, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

: It is worth noting [https://guestpectacular.com/artists/kylie-minogue/events/2025-02-18/australia/adelaide/adelaide-entertainment-centre this website] takes its information from Setlist.FM, which has been deemed unreliable, per WP:ALBUMAVOID, and also seems user generated, which is generally avoided as sourced content on Wikipedia. But solid breakdown of things; you did quite well. livelikemusic (TALK!) 15:26, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

:::lol i havent read the whole convo (sorry but yall looked like yall talked alot in circles) but wanted to ask since im bad at editing and knowing how to edit the code correctly, as she tours and the changes become less frequent (the song moving and deleting songs) would the setlist thats most constant be the new setlist on the wiki? and then as she changes up the fan requests but keeps the songs like wild roses and i should be so lucky would those stay on the list and a seperate notes for new requests? Kwinning (talk) 16:28, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

:::: Unless reliable sources state the changes (fan requests — noted in section above; changing of songs, et al), they likely won't be noted. Also, just as a word of caution: new comments should [generally] go at the end of the conversation, in succession order, otherwise they can [sometimes] get lost in the extensiveness of the section. livelikemusic (TALK!) 17:24, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

::::: Taboo video interludehttps://qnews.com.au/setlist-revealed-as-kylie-minogues-tension-tour-begins/ or interludehttps://www.popelera.net/setlist-kylie-minogue-tension-world-tour/#google_vignette as per above would be my vote as 'pre-recorded' is frequently used in the industry in reference to vocals. Video interlude in the context of a pop show would be the preferred term. BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 23:33, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::: Do we have concesus on Taboo labelled as a video interlude as per the QNews source? BiebersBoyMendes (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 22:58, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::: Nope. livelikemusic (TALK!) 23:00, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: It is also worth noting we now have two additional sources that have been published which reflect the three Melbourne shows' setlist. They also detail the remix of Come Into My World, the Taboo interlude, the Disco medley and song changes and show structure changes. However it is written in a way that is premeditative for Brisbane so may not be the best. But another two sources indicating Taboo as an interlude regardless. Again, 'pre-recorded' isn't the best terminology. Courier Mail https://www.couriermail.com.au/entertainment/kylie-minogue-2025-brisbane-concert-travel-tips-set-list-and-ticket-information/news-story/30eba574e736bf0fb74da97d8bfb78f2 News.comhttps://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/kylie-minogue-2025-brisbane-concert-travel-tips-set-list-and-ticket-information/news-story/30eba574e736bf0fb74da97d8bfb78f2 BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 23:09, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::: Much like the Official Charts Company source, both links are projecting what the set list could be (which is WP:CRYSTAL), not stating what it will be. Not to mention, they're combined from three separate shows, not one; whereas, majority of the other sources above are definitive of one show. And the News.com.au link is just the Courier Mail article on another website, so realistically it's one source, not two. livelikemusic (TALK!) 23:14, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::: I thought that could be an issue, that's why I was unsure. It is the most comprehensive source which is a shame as it and details the arrangements, including the medley. It does however support the use of the word interlude which is the preferred terminology for a setlist. I do think we can still use the QNews source you found which is good; obviously considering WP:RSAGE says {{tq|Be sure to check that older sources have not been superseded}}. I'm hoping to find a better one from the Melbourne shows which reflect the changes to the show as well. BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 23:27, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::: Where is the consensus/manual of style policy that "video interlude" is the {{!xt|"preferred terminology}}? Technically, the Melbourne show would be better suited for an "Alterations" section, etc. Either way, not agreeing to QNews (the only definitive set list posting citing "video interlude") as the overriding source, when both PerthNow and Time Out list "pre-recorded". livelikemusic (TALK!) 23:35, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::: Because it used to explain an 'interlude' or more correctly Entr'acte is piece of music performed between acts of a theatrical production, or here a pop concert which uses a video interlude. Pre-recorded is used when its intended to go out over radio and TV via satellite but isn't aired yet. Or sometimes used to describe pre-recorded vocals. So thats why an interlude or 'video interlude' would be preferred. It's also used on multiple Wikipedia articles to desribe this in a setlist e.g.The Celebration Tour, The_Elusive_Chanteuse_Show, I could link them all, but it would be a very extensive list. BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 23:48, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::: WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a valid argument. Viewpoint still stands at previously stated at this juncture. livelikemusic (TALK!) 23:56, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::: Sorry but QNews is just as valid as the Perth Now source. Besides, I added the Perth Now source to begin with and now I want to change it to the source you found which I believe is better. Am I able to do this or will it just get reverted again?BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 00:00, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::: PerthNow holds more weight given its wider-spread appeal as a third-party source, not to mention, as previously pointed out (again), it's a two for "pre-recorded" versus one for "video interlude". The best sources should be noted. And again, per WP:STONEWALL (which has been pointed out ad nauseam) nothing in-article should be changed while being discussed on the talk page. livelikemusic (TALK!) 00:10, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::: I don't agree, QNews is widespread and one of the first major Queer media productions in Australia and is an Australian owned publication. Perth Now is a Western Australian only publication. We can definitely use the QNews source and it definitely is one of the best sources.BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 00:18, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::: Don't agree with that assessment. Once again, it's a two versus one argument. And that's where I stand on the issue at present time, and will be waiting for others to join to provide further discussion at this juncture. livelikemusic (TALK!) 00:21, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::: I don't agree with yours at all. But that's okay, thats why we use the talk page and discuss! I love discussing this kind of thing. Again, to explain an 'interlude' or more correctly Entr'acte is piece of music performed between acts of a theatrical production, or here a pop concert which uses a video interlude. Pre-recorded is used when its intended to go out over radio and TV via satellite but isn't aired yet. Or sometimes used to describe pre-recorded vocals. So thats why an interlude or 'video interlude' would be preferred. This should really be considered. It is a pop concert. BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 00:24, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::: WP:SARCASM is lovely. I understand what you're trying to say, however, as explained ad nauseam, it is a two versus one in terms of sources (WP:BURDEN). It's about the sources. It is preferred by you, not by the source. Two sources state "pre-recorded," while one states "video interlude". Realistically, there are two definitive sources (Rolling Stone Australia, News.com.au) which do not label "Taboo". Additionally, a [https://retropopmagazine.com/kylie-minogue-launches-tension-tour-details-setlist-and-full-dates/ third source] does not label "Taboo". Stating {{!xt|"It is a pop concert.}} is WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. livelikemusic (TALK!) 00:37, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::::: No WP:SARCASM here. But definitely a lot of WP: CONFUSION and why is it taking so long to get a resolution from something we already know the answer to. But as you said above, we discuss! I'm doing my best to reframe and see it in an indifferent point of view. I know 'video interlude' or 'interlude' is preferred. It's evident that journalists report to the best of their knowledge but sometimes it's not ideal. BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 01:09, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::: But then again, who cares, you're wrong I'm right. You hide behind all this WIKI bs and you just piss everyone off, who are you to say? Why do you get to bully people into doing what you want? More like WP: I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH CONTROLLING OTHERS — Preceding unsigned comment added by BiebersBoyMendes (talk • contribs) 01:13, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::::::REPORTED FOR BEING A FUCKWIT BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 01:15, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::BiebersBoyMendes, having read your edit summaries and your responses here, I must say this: That is not how this works on Wikipedia. No one gets to have the final say of "we're doing it my way and that is final" when you have been clearly told to stop your disruptive behavior per WP:STONEWALL. Livelikemusic's revision is clear, and we need to stick to the source that has already been provided, based on what had been written. Wikipedia is not based on the narrow views who believe the policies and guidelines do not apply to them, and thinks that a set list needs to be written a certain way against WP:STICKTOTHESOURCE because a new user claims "because I said so". So in short, I agree with Livelikemusic. We stick to the source already provided. HorrorLover555 (talk) 01:50, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Wrong setlist

This set list here I so wrong. For instance she is 8 shows into Tension Tour and Monday Blues was only performed twice, in 25% of the shows only. Other example is Ladt Night a DJ Saves My Life that is sung by background singers and not Kylie herself as it is written here. This and other correction need to be updated to the real setlist asap.

https://www.noise11.com/news/kylie-puts-on-her-biggest-hometown-show-ever-kyliemelbourne-20250221

https://www.couriermail.com.au/entertainment/kylie-minogue-2025-brisbane-concert-travel-tips-set-list-and-ticket-information/news-story/30eba574e736bf0fb74da97d8bfb78f2

https://www.couriermail.com.au/entertainment/kylie-minogue-2025-brisbane-concert-travel-tips-set-list-and-ticket-information/news-story/30eba574e736bf0fb74da97d8bfb78f2 Mmaabento (talk) 11:52, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

: Thanks for the Noise11 source, however, the report from Courier Mail combines multiple dates into a set list while predicting what a future set list may be (WP:CRYSTAL vio), so to differentiate which date is which (for a "Alterations" section) is difficult. livelikemusic (TALK!) 15:24, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

::The setlist is finally updated which is good. Still Last Night a D.J. Saved My Life should be updated cause it is not performed by Kylie as it is stated there. The songs works as an interlude sung by the background singer. Kylie is not even on stage, see 1:12:45 on YouTube - Kylie Minogue - Full Concert (Tension Tour in Melbourne) 220225. Mmaabento (talk) 23:13, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

::: The burden of proof suggests otherwise concerning "Last Night a D.J. Saved My Life". As previously-mentioned, the Courier Mail link you provided is an expected set list, which is WP:CRYSTAL and also, is one singular source versus many others, which do not support the claims being made. And fan videos are not acceptable sources, either, per WP:YOUTUBE. livelikemusic (TALK!) 23:50, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

::::And if journals report wrong information Wikipedia is just gonna list out in the open information that is not accurate? There’s literally multiple videos of people that attended the concert as proof. They’re not AI. There’s several angles of the same performance and you can see Kylie exiting the stage and the music going on by the voice of the background singers that are with mics at the side. Kylie never sung LNADJSML in this tour. Mmaabento (talk) 14:20, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::Also some sources omit LNADJSML because it is not sung by Kylie therefore the don’t list it. Mmaabento (talk) 14:22, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

::::::Videos are not admissible to Wikipedia per the previously mentioned and linked content guideline, so citing them as reasons behind your reasonings is considered the introduction of original research, which is not permitted on Wikipedia. livelikemusic (TALK!) 15:28, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

::::::Mmaabento, Wikipedia does not care about fan videos from YouTube, again read WP:YOUTUBE. Wikipedia cares mostly about third-party reliable published sources, like a news source that reported on that matter. We thank you for providing the Noise11 source, but nothing else you have provided is reliable enough for inclusion. And just to make sure we're clear, WP:STICKTOTHESOURCE. HorrorLover555 (talk) 19:04, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::::The Noise11 source lists LNADJSML as an interlude, naming the entire Act IV as Last Night a DJ Saved My Life as they do with Taboo on Act II. Mmaabento (talk) 12:15, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: Re-read what's been written above, and it explains everything. Not going to continually repeat myself in a second discussion like I did above; it has been explained by both myself and HorrorLover555. livelikemusic (TALK!) 15:32, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: Again as I had stated, WP:STICKTOTHESOURCE. HorrorLover555 (talk) 18:35, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Unique fan request at the Tokyo show

I was just at the Tokyo Ariake show just a couple hours ago and there was an interesting incident with the fan request. The fan had requested Turn It Into Love, a song that Kylie hasn't performed in a very long time and the background singers didn't fully know. This song was released as a single only in Japan. The guitar player had prepped an acoustic version and the background singers were given a lyrics sheet. The Japanese fans were really happy this song got performed.

I'd love to add this but other than a short video clip I took I don't have a source. Maria-Malteada (talk) 14:19, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

: If we don't have a third-party reliable source, unfortunately we can't add the information. At least not yet. — Tom^(T2ME) 14:35, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

:: You being at the show is not reliable; provide a reliable, third-party source for these claims. livelikemusic (TALK!) 14:36, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

::Thank you for the polite reply Tom. I'll see what I can find. There was a very international crowd there tonight so I might be able to find something but will a Japanese source be okay? Maria-Malteada (talk) 14:39, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

::: So long as it is a reliable, third-party source, it should suffice. livelikemusic (TALK!) 14:42, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

::::Okay I understand. I'll see what I can find. It was a very sweet moment to see in person for such a niche song that was only promoted in Japan so I want it on the site. I'll be back with what I find. Maria-Malteada (talk) 15:26, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

::::: {{u|Maria-Malteada}} You're welcome! Yes, no worries if it's in Japanese. It just needs to be reliable. Appreciate it. — Tom^(T2ME) 15:43, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

::::::found a source! Kylie herself posted on Instagram

::::::https://www.instagram.com/p/DHHyrjlyOcN/?img_index=7&igsh=MWF2OWpnYnBwa2lmeA== Maria-Malteada (talk) 03:48, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

::::::: The post does not even state the information you want included; plus, we should avoid social media posts, per WP:SOCIALMEDIA. Again, provide a reliable, third-party source, not a primary which does not support the claims you're making. livelikemusic (TALK!) 16:00, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2025

Perth in fan requests is spelled wrong

Addition to fan requests

Sydney 1st & 2nd March - Hand On Your Heart, I Should be So Lucky

Sydney 3rd March - Dance Floor Darling, 2 Hearts Kmfan68 (talk) 03:34, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

:{{partly done}} Fixed typo, but additions not made. Please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. HorrorLover555 (talk) 05:01, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

add the critics!

there are a dozen critics online about the shows in new york city, toronto, tokyo etc! get to work and add all of this information. otherwise, stop protecting this article so that people can edit it! unbelievable 195.145.168.70 (talk) 08:41, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{not done}} Please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. HorrorLover555 (talk) 13:37, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 April 2025

Tokyo, Kaohsiung, Toronto, Montreal, Chicago, Washington, Boston, Miami, Orlando, Atlanta and Phoenix all either need their fan request songs added to the page or need edits. Kyliefan123 (talk) 18:31, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{Not done}} Reliable sources are required for this to happen. When reliable sources are available, they are added to the article—and have been this entire time. At present time, Boston is noted, as per The Boston Globe. livelikemusic (TALK!) 19:24, 23 April 2025 (UTC)