Talk:The Base (hate group)#Requested move 7 May 2025

Here are some sources in case anyone wants to start expanding this article before I can find the time to do it:

• https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/search/?keywords=Patrik+Mathews&searchSubmitted=y&sortBy=-startDate
• https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/homegrown-hate-547510902.html
• https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/8xwwaa/neo-nazi-terror-group-harbouring-missing-ex-soldier-patrik-mathews-sources
• https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a30148485/the-base-right-wing-militia-smuggle-canadian-border/
• https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/bjwx55/militant-neo-nazi-group-actively-recruiting-ahead-of-alleged-training-camp
• https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22patrik+mathews%22+%22the+base%22&source=lmns&tbm=nws&bih=722&biw=1112&client=safari&hl=en-GB&ved=2ahUKEwjpybKoqr_mAhUP06wKHWYnBnEQ_AUoAnoECAEQAg

-- Rrburke (talk) 13:21, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

:Here's another more recent one: [https://www.npr.org/2020/01/17/797399834/3-alleged-members-of-hate-group-the-base-arrested-in-georgia "3 Alleged Members Of Hate Group 'The Base' Arrested In Georgia, Another In Wisconsin"]. This is a different incident than the three guys arrested a few days earlier in Maryland. Bitter Oil (talk) 17:18, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Two recent articles about the identity and location of "Norman Spear".

• Guardian: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/23/revealed-the-true-identity-of-the-leader-of-americas-neo-nazi-terror-group Revealed: the true identity of the leader of an American neo-Nazi terror group] ([https://archive.ph/DRAQA archive])
• BBC: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51236915 Neo-Nazi Rinaldo Nazzaro running US militant group The Base from Russia] ([https://archive.ph/Ho21n archive])

Bitter Oil (talk) 16:33, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

:Yes, they are already being used.Slatersteven (talk) 17:39, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

https://www.informant.news/p/cracking-open-the-base -- Rrburke (talk) 00:00, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

:And yet another: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/25/inside-the-base-neo-nazi-terror-group Prepping for a race war: documents reveal inner workings of neo-Nazi group] ([https://archive.ph/7QJzJ archive). Bitter Oil (talk) 18:21, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

I had tried to make an article about this 6 months ago:

:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Base (platform)

This article was created in December, ~4 months afterward, ~2 months ago.

Should The Base (platform) redirect to this current page, or should we have separate articles about the group itself vs the web interface it was using?

Special:Diff/923796097 shows how in October someone also tried to add info but it was reverted with "Bitter Oil" implying that the deletion of the article (and removal of disambig) was motivated by the perception that anyone trying to document this group were Nazis, which is an undeserved attack on our editor base.

BO nominated this page for deletion in January as well: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Base (hate group). It's concerning why BO seemed to be trying to minimize this ("run of the mill, small") despite it's coverage. Olivia comet (talk) 21:56, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

:I doubt they are independently notable, thus no I do not think we need two articles on a minor hate group and its activities. No it should not be a redirect to here as a google search of "The Base (platform)" brings up a number of unrelated hits.Slatersteven (talk) 23:04, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

::I dont follow this argument against a redirect? You mean in terms of SEO? The "deletion page" will still show, even if it's not a redirect. In any case, this ain't "censorship", if an editor wants to restore it and find any relevant content, there's only a few sentences there, go ahead. tedder (talk) 03:40, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

:::The argument is that the term (name) "The Base (platform)" is not solely (and I am not sure even significantly) associated with this group (the base) or its web platform. In fact a google search does not even bring up the web service as a hit on the first page, nor goes a news search. This tells me that if most users do a search for "The Base (platform)" it is more then likely they are not looking for the web platform. Thus a redirect to here would not take them to where they wish to go.Slatersteven (talk) 09:09, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Without numbers this article is pointless. Is this 3 guys and their dog or 1 million members or somewhere in between? Without that we cannot access its importance and may just be a scare article. Rustygecko (talk) 09:16, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

The link in the lede to Green Brigade goes to a Wiki article titled Ecofascism. The term Green Brigade does not even occur in that article. In no way ought readers to confuse this term with the article Green Brigade: this article details a football suporters' Ultras group which, although sometimes typified as antisocial, is far from being right wing; and indeed has supported such causes as Palestinian nationalism and Black Lives Matter.

Nuttyskin (talk) 20:19, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

:Apart from this I assume "The Swedish self-identified ecofascist Green Brigade is an eco-terrorist group linked to The Base that is responsible for multiple mass murder plots. The Green Brigade has been responsible for arson attacks against targets deemed to be enemies of nature,[7][82] like an attack on a mink farm that caused multi-million-dollar damages. Two members were arrested by Swedish police, allegedly planning assassinating judges and bombings.["? Slatersteven (talk) 20:21, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

See [https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/06/us-neo-nazi-base-election-rinaldo-nazzaro?utm_term=66b2023530ff2a83697ea7af0e932640&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUS&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUS_email]. Doug Weller talk 12:35, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

See[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/24/neo-nazi-trump-fbi-chief?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other] Doug Weller talk 15:02, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

{{requested move/dated|The Base (organization)}}

:The Base (hate group) → {{no redirect|The Base (organization)}} – I'm open to other options but "Hate group" is a terrible disamb in any context, whether true or not. For the same reason we have moved all articles using the (Terrorist) disamb lately, it is just sloppy. Sources largely describe them as neo-Nazi, militant, etc, which are clearer. This article also does not mention that they were designated a hate group by any of the organizations that do that? It probably was but given that it is not included here and they are not called a hate group in the article already makes me think that is not a very good disamb. I am open to other options but this seems the most basic. PARAKANYAA (talk) 21:31, 7 May 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. ASUKITE 15:32, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose The Base (organization). There are several other "organizations" listed at The Base so this is an incomplete disamb and it's not clear that the hate group is the primary topic nor that "organization" is the best label for the group. The Base is included on the List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups#Neo-Nazi, which is included in the "See also" section of this article. The references are to the Year in Hate & Extremism reports for [https://www.splcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/files/yih_2020_final.pdf 2019] and [https://www.splcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/files/splc-2021-year-in-hate-extremism-report.pdf 2021] where SPLC classifies them as "racist skinheads" rather than "neo-Nazis". The SPLC website [https://www.splcenter.org/resources/extremist-files/base/ confirms] the designation as a hate group today. "Hate group" is an accurate description, although "neo-Nazi group/organization" is more consistent with usage in sources referenced in the article. The guidance at MOS:LABEL (aka MOS:TERRORIST) lists "neo-Nazi" as one of the words to watch and states such labels are {{tq|are best avoided unless widely used by reliable sources to describe the subject}}. Policy statements at WP:NDESC and WP:POVNAMING both say descriptive titles {{tq|should}} be neutral. Of course, this must be considered in the context of all relevant policy considerations. I looked for other articles as examples and many use the country when disambiguation is necessary, e.g. National Alliance (United States), National Vanguard (United States), and many others. Some use another descriptor that is more accurate than group/org, e.g. Stormfront (website) and Creativity (religion), and I did find a few like White Revolution (hate group) and Blood Tribe (neo-Nazi group). This is by no means comprehensive. "Hate group" and "neo-Nazi group" are clearly non-neutral but accurate, and "neo-Nazi"—or even "terorrist"—is well-supported by sources. Given that they are active in several countries, a geographical disamb like "United States" doesn't fit. I would entertain better, neutral titles but the current title is better than any obvious alternative, except perhaps "neo-Nazi group".--MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 15:58, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
• :@Myceteae Neo-Nazi group is far more clear as a descriptor than hate group, and far more evidenced by the sourcing and the verbiage this page uses, instead of the opinion of a private organization. MOS:LABEL is the spirit of things but obviously it is not enumerating every single possible negative label, it's warning you to be cautious about labels, unless they are commonly used by sources. But when we get into the weeds we have to use one. I would not oppose Neo-Nazi group being the disamb e.g. The Base (neo-Nazi group), that is far clearer. We don't even use the word hate group in this article outside of the title! We can't use terrorist group because that would also technically be a partial disamb (one of the other entries is another terrorist group with a name that means The Base). PARAKANYAA (talk) 18:24, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
• ::Support The Base (neo-Nazi group) as alternative. I did not mean to suggest that something must be explicitly listed at MOS:LABEL for the guidance to apply. I was a little unclear on your openness to "neo-Nazi group" since you referenced the "terrorist" moves, but I agree "neo-Nazi group" is well-supported by ample sourcing and overcomes any NPOV title concerns here. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 18:39, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
• :The Base is listed as "White Nationalist" on page 29 of the SPLC's 2019 report entitled "The Year In Hate & Extremism". The white colored column on the left side of the page is a continuation of the White Nationalist group list which begins on the previous page (i.e. pg. 28).
• :The same is true in the SPLC's 2021 edition of "The Year In Hate & Extremism", i.e. The Base is listed as a White Nationalist group on the lefthand column of page 47 which is a continuation of the White Nationalist groups section which begins on the previous page (i.e. pg. 46). 178.66.129.55 (talk) 14:32, 12 May 2025 (UTC)
• ::Thank you for the correction, and to you or the other IP editor who made the appropriate changes at List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups. I only raised the SPLC classification here to address the question of whether they had ever been designated as a hate group. I did not mention this previously, but the [https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/base ADL calls them] "a small militant neo-Nazi organization" among other descriptors and the [https://extremism.gwu.edu/base GWU Program on Extremism calls them] "a white supremacist neo-Nazi accelerationist terrorist group". Most importantly for this discussion, numerous sources describe The Base as a "neo-Nazi" group. This appears to be the most common descriptor in reliable sources, although "terrorist" is also up there. I still find "hate group" perfectly accurate, but accept "neo-Nazi" as a modest improvement, mostly because of ample sourcing using this exact label, thus directly addressing potential NPOV concerns. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 17:47, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose - "It's sloppy" is not a good argument to make for moving an article. "Hate group" is an accurate designator, poer Myceteae's point that neo-Nazi groups are inherently hate groups. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 17:38, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
• :@HandThatFeeds would you accept "neo-Nazi group" per continued discussion above? --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 18:47, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
• ::I'm Neutral on that one. I don't specifically oppose it, but I'm also not sure we have any other article on site using that clarifier. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 12:08, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
• :::It does not appear to be a common label. So far, I have found Blood Tribe (neo-Nazi group), Militia (Italian neo-Nazi group)—I assume to distinguish them from US-based neo-Nazi militia groups—and The Immortals (neo-Nazis). I have found more instances of individuals labelled neo-Nazi. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 14:43, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
• ::::According to [https://grep.toolforge.org/index.php?lang=en&project=wikipedia&namespace=0&pattern=%5C%28hate+group%5C%29&limit=on this] there are only two articles that include (hate group) as a disamb and Blood Tribe is the only one that includes (neo-Nazi group). There are [https://grep.toolforge.org/index.php?lang=en&project=wikipedia&namespace=0&pattern=%5C%28neo-Nazi%5C%29&limit=on five articles] about individuals with the (neo-Nazi) label. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 15:31, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
• :::From intitle searches we have one other that includes the Hate Group disamb (White Revolution (hate group)), and four others that use some variation of Neo-Nazi group (The Immortals (neo-Nazis), Blood Tribe (neo-Nazi group), Northern League (British neo-Nazi organisation), Militia (Italian neo-Nazi group)) so this is is more used than hate group at least. PARAKANYAA (talk) 15:34, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

:Note: WikiProject Discrimination, WikiProject Organizations, WikiProject Politics, and WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography have been notified of this discussion. ASUKITE 15:32, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

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