Talk:Type 1936B destroyer

There are inconsistencies between the sources regarding maximum speed, range and main armament.

[http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/destroyer/zerstorer1936b/index.html Kriegmarine] has a top speed of 36.5 knots, ( [http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/german_destroyers.htm Battleships-Cruisers.co.uk] has 38 knots).

[http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/destroyer/zerstorer1936b/index.html Kriegmarine] has a range of 2,600 miles, ( [http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/german_destroyers.htm Battleships-Cruisers.co.uk] has 6,200 miles, which seems to be the correct figure).

[http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/destroyer/zerstorer1936b/index.html Kriegmarine] gives a more detailed account of the main armament as consisting of 15 cm (5.9 in), but on a [http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/destroyer/zerstorer1936b/z36/tech.html related page] shows it as 12.7 cm! ( [http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/german_destroyers.htm Battleships-Cruisers.co.uk] has 5 in for the Type 1936B, but 5.9 in for the 1936A).

Both sources contain typos, which may be another indication of unreliability - I've tried to use the values which seem to be the most consistent Bahudhara (talk) 17:21, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

: I've just put in a request for assistance with this article on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships - see also additional discussion on User talk:Driftwood87's page. Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 05:45, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

::Navweapons gives the 12.7 cm/45 (5") SK C/34 as the armament. its a more trustworthy source in my opinion. GraemeLeggett (talk) 14:24, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

:::Yes, I saw that too - the [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_5-45_skc34.htm Navweapons 12.7cm] page does specifically refer to the Type 1936B being armed with this gun.

:::Unfortunately the [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zerst%C3%B6rer_1936 German Wikipedia page on the Type 1936] gives details of the Type 1936A, but makes no mention of the Type 1936B. Bahudhara (talk) 17:02, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

:November 2003 - Osprey Publishing - [http://books.google.com/books?id=1hDLLpQNG3AC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false "German Destroyers 1939-45"], page 23, by Gordon Williamson. Doesn't give the range at 19 kts but lists the maximum endurance as 2900 nmi & max speed at 37 kts. The source also lists the armaments. Driftwood87 (talk) 03:50, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

:::I would go with 2900nmi—6200nmi is a really long range for a destroyer of that time. —Ed (talk • majestic titan) 03:54, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's the data from the Gordon Williamson source re the Type 1936B:

:Displacement: 3,542 tons

:Fuel oil carried: 825 tons max

:Max speed 37 knots

:Max endurance 2,900 nautical miles

and here's the data for the British Tribal class destroyer (1936)

:Displacement: 1,850 tons (standard), 2,520 tons (full)

:Max speed: 36 knots

:Range: 524 tons oil, 5,700 nautical miles (10,600 km) at 15 knots

However, the [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zerst%C3%B6rer_1936 German Wikipedia page on the Type 1936] gives a range (Fahrbereich) of 2,050 nautical miles at 19 knots for the earlier Type 1936 (which had a fuel capacity of 786 tonnes, increased to 820 tonnes for the Type 1936A).

Williamson (on the last page of the Google preview) emphasises that " these vessels, though fewer in number than the British destroyer fleet, tended to be much bigger and more powerful than their Allied counterparts ". This would mean that their fuel consumption would be higher; but with the much bigger (yet proportional) fuel capacity, might they not be expected to have a similar range?

Endurance isn't necessarily the same as range, especially if the speed isn't given as well. Is the figure of 5,700 nautical miles for the Tribal class the effective range from a home port (i.e. two-way), or the distance travelled before needing to refuel?

To get an idea of what these distances mean, I've just tried the experiment (using Google Earth) of measuring the distance of a voyage around the British Isles (including the Shetlands), starting and finishing in Bremerhaven, and came up with a figure of around 2,155 nautical miles; a round trip from Bremerhaven to the northern tip of Norway would be about 2,600 nautical miles, and the distance from New York to London seems to be around 3,150 nautical miles.

So perhaps it does mean that 'range' is being used in different senses in different articles, with the two-way range given for the German ships because they may have tended to operate from a home port, and the distance travelled before needing to refuel for the British destroyers, because they tended to be used more point-to-point over longer distances, as e.g. transatlantic oonvoy escorts.

If this is the case, then perhaps [http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/german_destroyers.htm Battleships-Cruisers.co.uk] is fairly consistent with the other sources if it is actually giving a point-to-point 'range' for the 1936B, although its figure of 6,200 nautical miles is somewhat higher.

At least the sources (apart from [http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/destroyer/zerstorer1936b/index.html Kriegmarine]) do seem to be in agreement on the armament - with the Type 1936Bs having five 12.7 cm guns mounted in single turrets, with only the earlier Type 1936As having the heavier 15 cm guns. 27.33.222.118 (talk) 08:08, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Oops - that last post was by me - I must have accidentally logged out before posting! Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 08:14, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

:Could be the word 'range' is being substituted for radius in some comparisons, but not in others. 'Range' should be used for the total distance a ship can travel, not the radius of area it can operate in from one base. Driftwood87 (talk) 12:44, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

{{Talk:Type 1936B destroyer/GA1}}