Talk:Uyanış: Büyük Selçuklu#English name

The article states that this series is called The Great Seljuks: Guardians of Justice in English. Is that just a convenience translation or does it have some sort of 'official' status? If the latter, then shouldn't this article be moved to the English name (obviously with a redirect from the current name), given that this is the English-language Wikipedia? Compare with how eg. Immortals is under its English name (not under Yaşamayanlar); same with Three Monkeys (not Üç Maymun); ditto Memed, My Hawk (not İnce Memed), etc. And yes, I'm aware that there are also many that are listed under their Turkish names, but I think they (those that have 'official' English names) could/should equally be moved. Any thoughts? (Tagging the article creator {{ping|Limorina}} for comments.) Cheers, --DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:38, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

:{{re|DoubleGrazing}}, it has an official status (a few sources that call it this: [https://www.mistco.tv/movies/281/the-great-seljuks-guardians-of-justice], [https://worldscreen.com/tvdrama/worldscreenings-mistcos-the-great-seljuks-guardians-of-justice/], [https://www.turkishdrama.com/the-great-seljuks-uyanis-buyuk-selcuklu-tv-series.html]) but I think it should stay the way it is now because it is most commonly known this way by English-speaking people and I think an article title for a television series is decided by how they are referred to most commonly. Even IMDb refers to it as this. Limorina (talk) 15:06, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

::Hi {{re|Limorina}} I'm not sure IMDb is the arbiter here, they're not even considered RS on Wikipedia, and I don't know what their naming etc. policies are in this respect. As for how English-speakers refer to this series, what's the evidence that they "most commonly" use the Turkish original name? Thanks, --DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:41, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

:::{{re|DoubleGrazing}}, I just said IMDb to strengthen my point a little. Websites that air the series with English subtitles refer to it with the Turkish original title. I personally would search the Turkish title rather than the English one (I didn't even know that there was an official English title before creating the article), and there really isn't many sources (in English) that use the English title. You can do a WP:RM if you like. Thanks. Limorina (talk) 17:53, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

::::{{re|Limorina}} fine, but the point surely isn't how you would search for it; in any case, in your earlier comment you said that how it's "most commonly known [...] by English-speaking people", and I'm asking how do you know that? Similar case: I might search for the Finnish TV series by its original name Sorjonen, and when I do, it finds it, and redirects me to the article under its English name Bordertown (Finnish TV series), because (presumably) that's how it's mostly known in the international markets. Also, see WP:UE, which seems to suggest the English name should prevail, unless there's a good reason not to. Best, --DoubleGrazing (talk) 19:11, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

:::::{{re|DoubleGrazing}}, unofficial websites that air the television series with English subtitles (two examples: [https://kayifamily.com/episode/uyanis-buyuk-selcuklu-episode-1/], [https://osmanonline.co.uk/uyanis-buyuk-selcuklu/]) nearly all the time call it Uyanış: Büyük Selçuklu. Most sources refer to it like this and those that don't refer to it by its old name, Nizam-ı Alem. WP:UE says "If there are too few reliable English-language sources to constitute an established usage, follow the conventions of the language appropriate to the subject." As you can see, most sources in the article call it Uyanış: Büyük Selçuklu. Limorina (talk) 08:15, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

::::::{{re|Limorina}} the passage from WP:UE you've quoted doesn't apply here; it refers to Anglicisation: if, for example, there was no standard rendering of Atatürk's name in English — being shown variously as Ataturk, Atatuerk or Atatürk — you should in such instances go with the original.

::::::In any case, why are you so much insisting on keeping this on the Turkish title, against the principle of using English-language names on English-language wiki? It seems your main argument is that that's how most people (allegedly; no evidence presented so far) would search for it, but a simple redirect will take care of that anyway. --DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:33, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

:::::::{{re|DoubleGrazing}}, the evidence for that most-commonly-thing is that most or nearly all sources refer to it with the Turkish title, even in this article, and that there are more sources using its old title (Nizam-ı Alem) than the English one. I think that the "principle of using English-language names" may not apply if most sources use the original title. Limorina (talk) 09:30, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

::::::::{{re|Limorina}} well of course the sources cited refer to it by its Turkish name — they're all Turkish sources! What else you got? --DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

:::::::::{{u|DoubleGrazing}}, I was still typing before you replied. I was going to say this: The "principle of using English-language names" does not apply if most sources use the original title per WP:EN. And if I misunderstood and it is referring to English sources then still it should be the original title because unofficial websites that air the series with English subtitles (referenced before) use the original title too. Limorina (talk) 09:30, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

{{ping|DoubleGrazing}} Further to what {{u|Limorina}} said, the series is aired under the name Uyanış: Büyük Selçuklu in the UK. As I said below, the same applies for using the Turkish name with Diriliş: Ertuğrul, Kuruluş: Osman and Payitaht: Abdülhamid, as they are most commonly referred to with those names. As someone who has occasionally watched UBS with English subtitles, and is familiar with lots of people that regularly do, I had never heard of that English name before I saw it on this article. IronManCap (talk) 11:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

:{{re|IronManCap}}, maybe DE should be called Resurrection Ertuğrul as it is referred to as that on Netflix (Turkish television series on Netflix are usually referred to with their English names on WP like Rise of Empires: Ottoman and The Protector) and in many English sources. Limorina (t • c) 08:53, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

::{{re|Limorina}} If we did that, KO would have to be called "Establishment: Osman" for consistency, which would be a bit odd for readers. There are quite a few sources calling DE by the Turkish name as well. Maybe we could have Resurrection: Ertuğrul as a name underneath Diriliş: Ertuğrul in the ‘name’ parameter for the article. IronManCap (talk) 14:38, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

{{Did you know nominations/Uyanış: Büyük Selçuklu}}