Talk:Virginia Giuffre

The section "Association with Epstein (2000–2002)" contains the rather wild claim: "In a 2011 deposition unsealed in 2020, Giuffre alleged seeing former president Bill Clinton with two young women while on Epstein's island, though she recanted the allegation in court records unsealed in 2019.[31][32]"

Neither source listed, being https://www.npr.org/2020/07/31/896627505/judge-releases-trove-of-sealed-records-related-to-case-against-ghislaine-maxwell and https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/us/politics/trump-epstein-conspiracy-theories.html, mentions any recanting at all. The first source in fact confirms she stands by her allegations and the only contention comes from Clinton's lawyers. The confusion might come from Giuffre recanted her allegation against Alan Dershowitz https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/08/us/alan-dershowitz-virginia-giuffre-allegations-dropped/index.html, not Bill Clinton, but the sentence states she recanted the allegation against Bill Clinton. This is incorrect.

The page is protected so this edit cannot be performed by me. DavidAdamsAuthor (talk) 04:51, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

The above edit appears to have injected in this edit https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Virginia_Giuffre&oldid=1162090065 by user Soibangla, who according to their talk page is subject to an arbitration enforcement topic banhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Soibangla covering post-1992 American politics due to multiple infringements.

As discussed above there is no truth in the section that Giuffre recanted. DavidAdamsAuthor (talk) 04:51, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

:The NYT source cited says {{tq|The documents unsealed yesterday also include an acknowledgment from one of Mr. Epstein’s accusers, Virginia Giuffre, that an earlier claim she made about Mr. Clinton visiting Mr. Epstein in the Caribbean was untrue.}} This seems to me to verify the claim at issue. Am I missing something? Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 10:40, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

::Additionally, as soibangla is currently topic banned from American politics, they should probably neither respond to your message on their talkpage nor engage in this discussion; as the TBAN was put in place nine months after their edit to which you object and relates to battleground behaviour rather than misrepresentation of sources it isn't really relevant to this issue. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 10:43, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

:::Okay, on further examination, this whole sentence seems to be somewhat problematic:

:::*{{tq|Giuffre alleged seeing former president Bill Clinton with two young women while on Epstein's island}}. This is supported by the NPR source, which says {{tq|Giuffre said she had seen Clinton at Epstein's private island, adding that it was during a trip that included two young girls}}; it carefully does not say that Giuffre claimed to have seen Clinton and the young girls together, just that she saw both of them on the same trip.

:::*{{tq|though she recanted the allegation in court records unsealed in 2019}}. This is supported by the NY Times, which says {{tq|the documents unsealed yesterday also include an acknowledgment from one of Mr. Epstein’s accusers, Virginia Giuffre, that {{strong|an earlier claim}} she made about Mr. Clinton visiting Mr. Epstein in the Caribbean was untrue}} [emphasis mine]. The source does not say {{em|what}} claim about Clinton visiting Epstein was untrue. Putting these two claims together when the sources are not explicit that they are talking about the same thing looks worryingly like improper synthesis.

:::I've removed the entire sentence for the time being, until either sources can be found to explicitly support these claims or someone can propose text which actually aligns with what the sources say. Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 18:16, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

::::Thank you, removing the sentence seems best at this time.

::::For additional context for any other readers, the New York Times article cites the court documents https://web.archive.org/web/20190811012745/https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6250471/Epstein-Docs.pdf to support this claim, but those documents are unwieldy being a 2,200 page PDF without a simple summary. Searching through the documents finds nothing about any claims about Bill Clinton being recanted, only one about Alan Dershowitz. It does contain statements about Maxwell Ghislaine and her publicist claiming that Giuffre has no credibility, which is to be expected in a court proceeding such as this, but nothing about Giuffre explicitly recanting.

::::No other article I can find mentions this recanting. No other source can be found that talks about it. Unless someone is willing to comb this mammoth document and find explicit recanting, I think the only reasonable assumption to make is that the NYT article is not correct about its claims.

::::I'm not a seasoned Wikipedia editor by all means and this is not a hill I'm going to die on, if there is recanting in the document I'm willing to support re-adding the sentence but at this point I don't see it as being well supported at all.

::::DavidAdamsAuthor (talk) 23:01, 6 March 2025 (UTC) DavidAdamsAuthor (talk) 23:01, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

:

The issue with the NYT quotation was covered in an RFC stemming from an earlier dispute with editors including Soiblanga at the Epstein page. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_275#c-Newslinger-2019-10-05T01:15:00.000Z-Petrarchan47-2019-10-04T23:31:00.000Z Here] is Newslinger discussing the matter, saying he contacted the NYT about the need for a correction. We never got a response. The RFC concluded in an agreement to remove the claim. petrarchan47คุก 18:20, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

This should be added to her page:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/virginia-giuffre-car-crash-epstein-prince-andrew-b2724659.html CoyotesKenning (talk) 15:34, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

:To add to this article: where the bus crash occurred. 98.123.38.211 (talk) 00:23, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

::Still need to add to this article: where the bus crash occurred. 98.123.38.212 (talk) 23:14, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

This could be included, perhaps when the cases has been concluded. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/04/02/virginia-giuffre-accused-breach-restraining-order-crash/ Jontel (talk) 14:18, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

These have been reported. I don't know if they are worth including. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/01/virginia-giuffre-prince-andrew-epstein-ghislaine-maxwell/ Jontel (talk) 14:23, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

Ahead of her scheduled court date on April 9 2025 Giuffre has now been released from hospital after six days following the alleged crash and unverified claims she had only days left to live. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/virginia-giuffre-released-hospital-australia-b2728828.html

On April 9 Giuffre's criminal case where she's the defendant was adjourned until June based on her lawyers request. https://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/national/25075304.virginia-giuffres-court-case-adjourned-june/

Giuffre is also trying to negotiate a plea deal to get the most favorable sentence for her crimes. Her lawyer Karrie Louden told Magistrate Andrew Maughan that negotiations with prosecutors were ongoing over the alleged incident in the suburb of Ocean Reef, where she is understood to live, on February 2. Asked by Maughan why the negotiations were taking so long, Louden said she was "quite busy" as she requested for the matter to be adjourned until June 11, which was granted. This negotiation is of course in direct conflict with her previous statements where she allegedly looked forward to defending herself in court. https://www.irishnews.com/news/uk/duke-of-york-accuser-virginia-giuffre-faces-court-as-she-recovers-from-bus-crash-H23Z6CVFORKOLCRCRCSGZVD53E/

-unsigned comments added by

Nolleprosequi (talk) 08:02, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

The page is protected but at the same time it is not being edited. Could some editor update the page or alternatively lift the protection! Giuffre is all over the news and this page is silent, this is no good! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.248.206.108 (talk) 10:15, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

{{edit extended-protected|Virginia Giuffre|answered=yes}}

Sources are reporting she has died by suicide, her page should be update to reflect this Darce98 (talk) 01:16, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

:It has already been changed. Cedar777 (talk) 04:18, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Can her date of death be changed to April 24?

https://people.com/virginia-giuffre-jeffrey-epstein-prince-andrew-abuse-accuser-dies-by-suicide-at-age-41-11706343

https://nypost.com/2025/04/25/us-news/jeffrey-epstein-victim-virginia-giuffre-dies-by-suicide-weeks-after-saying-she-had-days-to-live/ 2601:18C:8102:86C0:C5E7:C160:B632:A78C (talk) 01:54, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

:It's unclear whether the dates being quoted are local to the outlet (East Coast USA is 12 hours behind Western Australia Standard Time). Date of death should reflect the local date for accuracy. Rusty Springs (talk) 01:59, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

::Update - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-26/virginia-giuffre-jeffrey-epstein-accuser-dies/105219384

::"In a statement, her family confirmed she passed away on Friday night at her property in Neergabby in the shire of Gingin, about 20 kilometres north of Perth. " Rusty Springs (talk) 02:00, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

::According to her family, she died on Thursday, April 24, in Neergabby, Australia, her residence of the past several years. 2601:18C:8102:86C0:C5E7:C160:B632:A78C (talk) 02:03, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

:::In reporting on her death, the New York Times and the Associated Press both state that she "died on Friday". Cedar777 (talk) 04:15, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

::::The local newspaper (The West Australian) [https://thewest.com.au/news/crime/virginia-giuffre-jeffrey-epstein-sex-trafficking-victim-dies-by-suicide-c-18491654 reports]: "Police confirmed they were called to Ms Giuffre’s property about 9.50pm on Friday after she was found unresponsive. There was nothing that could be done to save her and she was declared dead at the scene" – so definitely evening of Friday 25 April, local time. The article currently says 25 April, so it is currently correct. SomethingForDeletion (talk) 14:09, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

The New York Times has this aside regarding the pronunciation of "Giuffre":

{{blockquote|Ms. Giuffre (pronounced JIFF-ree) wrote in an Instagram post in March that she was days away from dying of renal failure after being injured in an automobile crash with a school bus that she said was traveling at nearly 70 m.p.h.|https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/25/us/virginia-giuffre-dead.html}}

Obviously this is different from the article ("JOO-fray"), and most television news I've personally heard. Brad (talk) 05:10, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

:Given she did several media interviews over the years, I'm wondering if she was ever recorded pronouncing her own surname. How she herself said it should be the ultimate authority, I would think. SomethingForDeletion (talk) 14:11, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

:Most of the instances of people saying Giuffre on YouGlish pronounce it /ˈdʒuːfreɪ/.

:Source: https://youglish.com/pronounce/Giuffre/english Nivamp (talk) 18:40, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

::I've removed the pronunciaton from the lede for now. The Times ([https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/26/us/virginia-giuffre-dead.html?unlocked_article_code=1.DE8.VBs3._cBi_YqKXXdG&smid=url-share unlocked version]) asserts JIFF-ree quite confidently, which I'd give more weight to than incidental usage by anchors. But the fact that all TV outlets I've checked [https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=virginia+giuffre+interview here] use joo-FRAY makes me hesitate to endorse either the more confident assertion over the more common one, or vice versa. I think we should just omit a pronunciation unless a definitive answer becomes clear. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 02:11, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

:::Oh and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sweVMJzJ-s], a sit-down interview with her, uses JOO-free. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 02:23, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

:::Agreed. Nivamp (talk) 14:04, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

Previously made known by her, Virginia claimed in December 2019 that she was not in any way suicidal. It would be wise to consider the addition of a 'Possible Conspiracy" In her Death Section. https://x.com/VRSVirginia/status/1204620018035462144 AsbestosDealer (talk) 09:30, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

:AsbestosDealer First and foremost, this would be what we call WP:original research. We can only add "possible conspiracy" if reliable sources say it is a possible conspiracy. Second, your source is more than five years old. A lot can happen in five years. And to finish this, people telling on X that they are not suicidal doesn't mean that we know that they are not suicidal. Friendly, Lova Falk (talk) 10:13, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

::Her father uses different words than "possible conspiracy" by stating "somebody got to her".

::That's fresh news, and a reversal of the family's original support of the alleged suicide theory. His statement supports the insertion of 'possible conspiracy' to the page.

::From the last line of 'Hospitalization...:

::"Her father released a statement on May 1 discounting the suicide explanation and positing that "somebody got to her."[126] 27.34.66.148 (talk) 17:45, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

Virginia was a confirmed victim of Epstein and Maxwell. 195.99.227.83 (talk) 10:03, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

:As far as I have read the sources (and I have read quite a few), she settled. At no point was any one convicted for victimizing Giuffre. So it was never proven. Friendly, Lova Falk (talk) 10:17, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

::Amaizing. Did you look through the complete Maxwell court papers & conviction? I find it kind of cheap and repulsive that the girl that got the ball rolling gets an "accuser" label in the lead instead of "victim". She is mentioned 23 TIMES in the Ghislain Maxwell wiki who got 20 YEARS IN PRISON, and you have the audacity to call Giuffre an accuser? What kind of outfit are you people running here??? 89.245.177.216 (talk) 07:03, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

:What I am observing in a range of sources is that “alleged” is often specific to mentions of her accusations against Andrew. Few sources make the case that Epstein (died in prison) and Maxwell (in prison) were “alleged” abusers and sex traffickers at this stage of the scandal. Cedar777 (talk) 11:07, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

If she married a guy named Roberts, she couldn’t be named Roberts at birth (‘née’ means ‘born’ in French) unless both she and her husband were named Roberts at birth, but in such case, she couldn’t had adopted Giuffre as her last name by marring a guy named Roberts. 79.156.22.185 (talk) 15:19, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

:Virginia Roberts married Robert Giuffre. If, conversely, men adopted women’s surnames, he would have been Robert Roberts. It is listed correctly. Cedar777 (talk) 15:39, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

{{edit extended-protected|Virginia Giuffre|answered=yes}}

How on earth could she have divorced her husband in sept 2025 when it's only April 2025 now??!!! Protecting pages like this is absolutely ridiculous. The sooner wiki is taken over the better. 2A00:23C8:FA25:1801:4FC2:895D:C8EA:1876 (talk) 16:13, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

:Specifically where in the article does it say this? Which section, what is the exact wording? Cedar777 (talk) 16:45, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

::I think they might be confusing "sep. 2025" for "September 2025". "Sep." here is short for "separated", and it was present in the article [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Virginia_Giuffre&oldid=1284790663 before Giuffre's death]. TeoTB (talk) 16:55, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

:::Ahh, good point. I see the status of 'separated' is sourced in the body. Cedar777 (talk) 17:16, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

:Nevermind - found it in the Info box. It's been fixed now. Cedar777 (talk) 16:49, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

::Added additional source, AP News, to body and restored year of separation to info box. Cedar777 (talk) 17:24, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Does Speak Out, Act, Reclaim actually exist? Its website (linked in the infobox) hasn't been updated since 2021, and still contains such outdated statements as "At this early stage, we are not yet accepting donations." Its Facebook account was (very) active until May 2022, since when, nothing. GrindtXX (talk) 12:41, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

:Beyond the initial registry for Victims Refuse Silence in the US, my efforts to locate additional non-profit records for the organization/charity by either name in the US, Australia, or the UK did not yield anything. Perhaps others can find something? Cedar777 (talk) 14:38, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

There's a marked absence of Prince Andrew's name in the lede, where such highly notable information is usually inserted.

WP:BLP cannot be cited as a concern since he publicly settled in court.

Please add his name at the end of the lede: "She gave a detailed account to many American and British reporters about her experiences of being sex trafficked by Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell for Prince Andrew and other men". 2400:1A00:B040:9DB2:E384:929D:740D:E5B (talk) 17:29, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

There is necessary editing work in the 'Hospitalization.. subsection:

• Please clarify that the police did not go to the bus crash site, since the current wording is not clear: ...statement that "police were called but said that there was no one available to come to the scene". This would be clearer as, The family said the police didn't come to the crash scene after being called.
• Please edit the sentence which says that the family accepts the alleged suicide theory: "According to her family, Giuffre died by suicide at her home in Neergabby, Western Australia, on April 25.", since the father has since issued another statement: "Her father released a statement on May 1 discounting the suicide explanation and positing that "somebody got to her."[126]

The two conflicting sentences in the same paragraph can be joined to say, "Although the family at first accepted at the alleged cause of death as suicide, on May 1 Giuffre's father released a statement discounting the suicide explanation and positing that "somebody got to her."[126]

• Additionally, the attorney for Epstein's victims is forcefully calling for an in-depth investigation into her death: https://www.wpbf.com/article/florida-virginia-giuffre-death-investigation-epstein-victims-attorney/64625366
• Giuffre's own attorney tip-toeing around the "reported suicide": https://www.westernjournal.com/attorney-prominent-epstein-accuser-virginia-giuffre-reveals-big-question-marks-reported-suicide/

Frankly, imo (no supporting sources as of yet), the stench of a political assassination in this high profile case is quite strong.

27.34.66.148 (talk) 17:54, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

: Agreed, this section deserves at least a mention of the fact that 6 years ago Giuffre posted publicly "in no way, shape or form am I suicidal,” that she had informed her therapist of this, and asking the public to protect her family if her death was claimed to be suicide (source: https://www.union-bulletin.com/news/national/virginia-giuffre-s-father-says-there-s-no-way-she-died-by-suicide/article_33845813-b8b7-5559-aff0-abafbb4b95c7.html). john factorial (talk) 18:23, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:Here's another reliable source about her warning of NOT being suicidal:

:https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/was-virginia-giuffre-suicidal-her-viral-tweet-resurfaces-as-angry-netizens-claim-she-didn-t-kill-herself-101745661767236.html

:Where are the editors/administrators here? Have you just locked this page to ignore necessary edits on what is probably a murder case? 2400:9500:C032:A39C:104C:4CFF:FED5:AB9E (talk) 14:09, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

::This is why I won't donate to Wikipedia anymore. The truth is never gonna come out through this page, It seems. 2600:1011:B01C:42E9:86D:BA01:7C65:6830 (talk) 05:11, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

Giuffre regularly advocated for sexual abuse victims so belongs in this category 87.114.4.246 (talk) 15:03, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:Added the category to article. Cedar777 (talk) 14:45, 20 May 2025 (UTC)