Talk:War in Donbas#Requested move 17 October 2023

That STUPID Table of Contents moves down the screen as you scroll down blocking the text that one is trying to read.

Please do something about this. Steven Dott (talk) 20:35, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

It said “At least 312 were foreigners:”, counting 11 Russian journalists and 1 Russian civilian. Are Russians really foreigners here? I believe MH17 was shot down by Russia, but not from Russia. I think this single fact gives that Russians weren’t “foreigners” in this war. Although, I’m not sure about that, but I believe that the rebels likely wouldn’t have survived the Ukrainian 2014 offensive without Russian help. I could have waited 1 second, but I waited 2 seconds. I can sometimes accidentally or not contribute, but you can talk to me sometimes. 11:45, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Here are also some thresholds (1, 25 and 1,000) from the war. I would propose to add one paragraph in the Casualties section. Jakob Hauter writes the armed conflict started on April 12-13 with the first battle-related casualty.

{{talkquote|The events of April 12–13 are key to the second critical juncture of the conflict. This critical juncture is of particular importance because it encompasses the crossing of three escalation thresholds—the appearance of armed groups, the deployment of the military, and armed clashes—within a short period of time. Only the first one of these thresholds, the appearance of armed groups, had been crossed before elsewhere in the Donbas, namely during the previous week when separatist activists in Donetsk and Luhansk seized military-grade weaponry from buildings they had occupied. Outside the two regional centers, however, no armed men had been spotted so far. More importantly, the Kyiv authorities had not previously responded with force. This time, armed units were deployed to Sloviansk and met armed resistance, which led to the first battle-related casualty in the Donbas. According to the Uppsala Conflict Data Program’s methodology, the first battle-related casualty marks the dividing line between peace and armed conflict (Pettersson 2020, 6). Moreover, the Sloviansk-Kramatorsk area remained the central theater of armed combat in the Donbas until the separatist forces withdrew to Donetsk in early July.{{cite book |last=Hauter |first=Jakob |date=2023 |title=Russia's Overlooked Invasion: The Causes of the 2014 Outbreak of War in Ukraine's Donbas |location=Stuttgart |publisher=Ibidem |isbn=978-3-8382-1803-8 |page=126}}

After Sloviansk, the southern port city of Mariupol was the first place in the Donbas where tensions crossed the armed conflict threshold{{cite book |last=Hauter |first=Jakob |date=2023 |title=Russia's Overlooked Invasion: The Causes of the 2014 Outbreak of War in Ukraine's Donbas |page=58}}

Pettersson, Therése. 2020. “UCDP/PRIO Armed Conflict Dataset Codebook Version 20.1.” Uppsala Conflict Data Program (UCDP). 2020. [https://ucdp.uu.se/downloads/ucdpprio/ucdp-prio-acd-201.pdf https://ucdp.uu.se/downloads/ucdpprio/ucdp-prio-acd-201.pdf].}}

Serhiy Kudelia writes the minimum threshold used for identifying a violent confrontation as an armed conflict are 25 casualties that has been surpassed on May 5 and by mid-July the minimum threshold for classifying it as a war of 1,000 casualties was surpassed.

{{talkquote|The capture of the police station and SBU office in Sloviansk on April 12 added qualitatively new dynamics to the mobilization process. It marked the forceful removal of Ukraine’s sovereign control over the entire town and the emergence of the first organized nonstate armed unit openly challenging the Ukrainian state. Predictably, the Ukrainian government responded with an armed countermobilization accompanied by an assault on the rebel bases under Girkin’s command. By May 5, or just over three weeks later, the intensity of these altercations reached the level of a minor armed conflict.² By mid-July the conflict had produced over one thousand casualties, the minimum threshold for classifying it as a war.³

² Author’s calculations based on open-source information regarding the casualties among Ukrainian forces, insurgents, and civilians. By May 5 over twenty-five people were killed as part of the conflict. This surpassed the minimum threshold normally used for identifying a violent confrontation as an armed conflict. For an exact list of casualties, see Appendix. The categories and coding criteria are based on Therese Pettersson, “UCDP/PRIO Armed Conflict Dataset Codebook v 24.1 ([https://ucdp.uu.se/downloads/ https://ucdp.uu.se/downloads/]),” 2024.

³ The casualties data is based on the Report on Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, “Human Rights Situation in Ukraine,” July 15, 2014, [https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/HRMMUReport15June2014.pdf https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/HRMMUReport15June2014.pdf]. The category coding is based on Pettersson, “UCDP/PRIO Armed Conflict Dataset… .”{{cite book |last=Kudelia |first=Serhiy |date=2025 |title=Seize the City, Undo the State: The Inception of Russia's War on Ukraine |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Jbg7EQAAQBAJ&pg=PA49 |publisher=Oxford University Press |isbn=978-0-19-779553-8 |pages=49–50 |doi=10.1093/9780197795576.001.0001}}}}

Arel/Driscoll write the 1,000 casualties threshold was probably surpassed in early August.

{{talkquote|The number of civilian deaths began to rise substantially. It probably reached 1,000, the threshold for defining a civil war, sometime in early August.{{cite book |last1=Arel |first1=Dominique |last2=Driscoll |first2=Jesse |date=2023 |title=Ukraine's Unnamed War: Before the Russian Invasion of 2022 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=7dWgEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA166 |publisher=Cambridge University Press |isbn=978-1-009-05292-4 |page=166 |doi=10.1017/9781009052924}}}}

--Jo1971 (talk) 14:36, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

{{Reflist-talk}}

{{edit extended-protected|War in Donbas|answered=yes}}

remve duplciate ciationsand shorten the article 45.49.236.6 (talk) 23:50, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Which citations are duplicated? And what text do you propose to remove? LizardJr8 (talk) 01:02, 10 June 2025 (UTC)