Talk:Welcome Aboard Toxic Airlines

I removed all but two of the citation links from the article, simply because they were not valid WP:RS citation links. To the contrary, most were simply links to various news articles, all of which were based on press releases handed out by the two organizations which are promoting their claims that airliner cabin air is contaminated and dangerous to crew and passengers. Press release articles are rarely, if ever, a valid reliable source, simply because they just regurgitate biased information handed to the publisher, by an agenda group that has an ax to grind.

For any citation link to be a valid WP:RS citation link, it must actually support some SPECIFIC statements or alleged facts mentioned in the article. But, most of the links that I removed did not even accomplish that purpose. Instead, the link just led to regurgitated press release articles, that kept repeating the same claims, in each news release. That amounts to using citations as a hidden method of inserting spam links WP:LINKSPAM which is very clearly against Wikipedia policy. One link led to a page that contained nothing but hordes of URL links to other articles (Aopis), so I removed that one too.

I allowed the first citation link to remain, even though it too was a biased press release article, because it did tell who Tristan Lorraine was and that he produced the film. To that extent then, that particular citation link did support the statements about who he is and what he did.

I will allow the book citation link to remain for now, but it needs a page number included, to be of any value to readers of this article. An entire book, without a specific page number, doesn't really provide a source to support the statement. If a page number cannot be provided in the near future, then I think it will be appropriate to remove that citation link too, on grounds of that it is not really accessible to any of Wiki's readers.

If anyone else wants to add new links to this article, please be sure they conform with Wiki policies on WP:RS and WP:LINKSPAM. Thank you, EditorASC (talk) 11:13, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

:Again, it became necessary to remove internal spam links that were trying to masquerade as if they were support citations for fact statements. In fact, they were just a series of newspaper articles that kept repeating the same story over and over again, about Tristan Loraine and the film he produced. It was obvious that all the articles were so much alike because they relied on the press releases issued by Loraine to get publicity for his film. That amounts to using citations as a hidden method of inserting spam links WP:LINKSPAM which is very clearly against Wikipedia policy. I left the first article, since it explains the Tristan Loraine film project. That is all that is justified to support this article. Please do not continue to re-insert internal spam links, in the form of citations. They will just be removed again.

:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a forum for posting spam advertising links so Loraine can increase the sales of his film. EditorASC (talk) 09:37, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

::That is entirely untrue. The sources, which you have continually referred to as link spam here and in the related articles (and which you refer to any new links introduced to articles as well regardless), have some similar information in all of them, yes, but they also have patently different information. They are all about the documentary, so of course the information is similar, but as long as they are not exact copies of each other, then they are not spam links. Please stop trying to lower the quality of this article and related ones in some sort of path to get them deleted, because that is clearly what you are trying to do. Silverseren^C 10:23, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

:::The one newspaper article used as an internal link citation has the whole story about why Tristan had to quit flying, that he got a 200,000 LB payoff and he used the money to write the book and produce a film which seeks to alert the public to the worst coverup in the world, about how many people are being poisoned by the airlines. Combine that with the external link to the official website, and the entire story (all that is relevant for an article like this) is presented more than adequately. "Where a fact can be established clearly by a single footnote, best practice is to stop there. The next ten footnotes for the same simple fact do not really help anyone." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_overkill.

:::All you are trying to do is to use Wikipedia to increase search engine levels to your website, which clearly is using Wikipedia as a free publicity tool to increase sales of the book and movie. Additional, repetitive internal or external links, which do not prove controversial statements that are likely to be challenged, are not necessary and are to be avoided. That is Official Wiki citation link policy. Please comply. Spam links will not be permitted. EditorASC (talk) 12:07, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

::::What you are trying to point out would only be true if the sources for the article were all being referenced on a single fact. That would indeed be citation overkill. However, they are not focused on the same fact, but spread out through the article. So, even if some of their information overlaps in them (which is understandable because they are all discussing the documentary), they are still reliable sources for the article. Thus, WP:CITEKILL does not apply in this case.

::::Furthermore, about your accusation about WP:LINKSPAM earlier, I assume that you meant to link WP:CITESPAM, considering that LINKSPAM is about external links and does not apply when you are discussing references. As for the CITESPAM accusation, I can assure you that I am not trying to optimize search engines, i'm not even sure how that works. I am just trying to keep the references in the article that are about the documentary and that are reliable sources. I could also say that you are Citation Spamming, considering it says, "Variations of citation spamming include the removal of multiple valid sources and statements in an article in favor of a single, typically questionable or low-value, web source." But I won't.

::::I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "your website". Neither the West Sussex County Times nor the Argus nor the Daily Telegraph are "my website", whatever that cares to mean. I don't even have a website. Neither do I have any link to this documentary or its creators or affiliate sponsors. Silverseren^C 19:58, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Welcome Aboard Toxic Airlines. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120227182208/http://www.esam.aero/main/docs/ecam08/No%207%20Bagshaw%20paper.pdf to http://www.esam.aero/main/docs/ecam08/No%207%20Bagshaw%20paper.pdf

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