Talk:inline skates

I moved prior discussions to the first archive page. I will use those discussions to help with this rewrite. I removed the citation-needed template on the article placed in May 2013, and added an under-construction template instead. I intend to do the following:

• Reorganize this article to be more like modern Wikipedia articles
• Add Types of Inline Skates, and other relevant sections, including but not limited to: safety and protective gear, cultural impact, etc.
• Try to find proper references for paragraphs. And tag places needing additional references for more people to help with.
• At the end, I will reduce the lengthy discussions on wheel setups into summaries, and move the bulk of setup content back to the original Inline skate wheel setups page. Yes, I am aware that that page was merged into this article in the past. But that was then. This is now. Things will be different when the rewrite is done.
• I may shuffle text between this article and its sibling article inline skating during this rewrite.
• There will be proper image thumbnails for most of rewritten text. I will first revise/rewrite/expand text. Images will be added only after text is consistently changed. In particular I have curated more than enough images for every paragraph of the History section and Parts section.

Initially: Fred Hsu (talk) 02:06, 19 November 2024 (UTC). Last edited: Fred Hsu (talk) 14:14, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Key timestamped versions of this article:

• [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1258100421 original version on 2024-11-17 before I got started]
• [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1258508718 rewrote the lead section, with wiki links and references]
• [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1258878236 fixed and archived all citations]
• 11/25: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1259442438 finished History - Development of wheeled skates]
• 11/28: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1260001267 finished History - Development of roller skates]
• 11/30: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1260477719 finished History - Adoption of ball bearings]
• 12/02: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1260892838 started to add thumbnail images]
• 12/03: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1261080454 provided patent drawings for the first two subsections of History]
• 12/17: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1263699342 further development of inline skates]
• 12/26: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1265372357 finished subsection on "modern" inline skates]
• 12/29: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1266084825 begged lots of people to make available their images]

Last edited: Fred Hsu (talk) 03:46, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

One month into this rewrite, I realize that I've expanded the history section way beyond what is needed for "inline skates". However, as I researched the history online, bought books, read them, searched Google Books, and made notes, I realized that there was no complete nor accurate accounting anywhere. I amassed extensive notes enumerating incorrect myths and information I stumbled upon. So now there needs to be a place where all keywords and names may be found, and theirs records set straight. The result was the ever-growing number of subsections annotated above. And it's not done. Next is the "precursor to modern inline skates". And then finally the "development of modern inline skates" will recount the story of Rollerblade.

I will finish writing the History section here. But I will move it out into its own article, once written. At that time, the History section will be replaced with an abridged version. Fred Hsu (talk) 04:07, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

The whole History section is done. But there will be further refinement on the 'modern' subsection for a while. I am also getting additional pictures for illustration. Fred Hsu (talk) 17:33, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Now onto: Types:

• 2025-01-02: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1267008854 but first, add a short Anatomy and Function section which introduces basic names and functions needed for Types and Parts]
• 1/6: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1267881721 types lead section done. Added a Recreational skates subsection.]
• 1/8: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1268299607 many people I reached out to not only agreed to donate their images, but also cared enough to follow up with a confirmation email to The Volunteer Response Team, to cement their generous sharing]
• 1/12: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1269293847 finished the aggressive skates subsection]
• 1/20: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1270947197 finished the hockey skates subsection]
• 1/25: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1271836511 finished the speed skates subsection]
• 1/29: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1272761914 furnished sections with newly-uploaded images]
• 2/04: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1274027754 finished the urban skates subsection]

Last edited: Fred Hsu (talk) 03:37, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Now onto: Frames

• Parts as a section already exists with a few subsections. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1274223367 Version prior to the rewrite of this section]
• 2/10: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1275116283 Boots done]
• 2/12: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1275451979 Non-standard frames]
• 2/17: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1276275724 165mm and 195mm frams]
• 2/23: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1277346921 UFS frames, plus lots more aggressive and UFS images]
• 3/3: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1278696912 Trinity frames]
• 4/28: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1287885832 Heel brakes]

Last edited: Fred Hsu (talk) 01:47, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

Now onto: Wheels

• 3/10: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1279862786 Wheels | Polyurethane wheels]
• 3/27: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1282707740 Wheel structure]
• 3/30: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1283180371 Images for wheel structure, and split into structure vs hubs]
• 4/7: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1284672145 Wheel diameter and profile]
• 4/18: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1286299911 Wheel hardness and deformation]
• 4/20: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1286574525 Dual density wheels]
• 4/24: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1287265662 Wheel rebound]
• 4/26: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1287556682 Rolling resistance]
• 4/27: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1287653853 The Wheels section is now complete]
• 5/1: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1288353472 well... added one last section: Wheel rotation]

Last edited: Fred Hsu (talk) 02:25, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Section: Bearing

• 5/5: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1289036657 Setups]
• 5/8: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1289513435 Assemblies]
• 5/10: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1289827488 Bearings allow wheels to spin freely]
• 5/17: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1290948382 Purpose-built bearings]
• 5/22: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1291849668 Bearing selection]
• 5/25: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1292196550 Bearing shields]

Section: Setup

• 6/1: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1293448394 Bearing alignment]
• 6/7: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Inline_skates&oldid=1294486420 Axial play to support side load]

Last edited: Fred Hsu (talk) 17:03, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

I am using this section to park temporarily removed materials which I will eventually re-integrate back into the article.

From the lead section:

Some, especially those for recreation, have a rubber "stop" or "brake" block attached to the rear of one or occasionally both of the skates so that the skater can slow down or stop by leaning back on the foot with the brake skate.

Fred Hsu (talk) 03:06, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

From the History section:

Louis Legrange of France created an inline design in 1849. Legrange designed the skates for an opera where a character was to appear to be skating on ice.The skates were problematic and unsuccessful as the wearer could not turn nor could they stop.{{cite book

|url=https://www.google.com/books/edition/Aggressive_In_Line_Skating/35h0hQDoBL0C?hl=en&gbpv=1&kptab=overview&bsq=history

|title=Aggressive In-Line Skating

|location=United States

|publisher=Capstone High/Low Books

|year=1999

|isbn=9780716815822

|access-date=2024-11-21

|first1=Anne T.

|last1=McKenna

}}

• The book has this entry: "In 1849, Loius Legrange of France made a pair of in-line skates for a character in an opera. The opera character was supposed to be on ice skates. Legrange used spools as wheels. But Legrange's skates had the same problems as Merlin's skates had. The actor could not turn or stop".
• Unless this same invention in 1849 shows anything new in addition to the 1760 Merlin skates, I don't think it's worth listing in this article.
• I'll do more research later. If I can find pictures of additional info, I'll think about adding this back

At some point between 1895 and 1899 the UK engineering company D. Napier & Son made Ritter "road skates", which had two comparatively large wheels, front and back, on each skate.{{cite book

|url=https://npht.org/product/book-men-machines-men-machines-1/

|title=Men and Machines: A History of D. Napier & Son, Engineers, Ltd., 1808-1958

|location=London

|publisher=Weidenfeld and Nicolson

|year=1958

|access-date=2024-11-21

|first1=Charles

|last1=Wilson

|first2=William

|last2=Reader

|pages=Page 58 and facing Page 45

}}

• It's not clear how this relates to today's inline skates. It's one of many branches of roller skates. I found only a few pictures online. I'll reconsider this entry later.
• I can't easily tell the scale of these skates. They appear to be platforms for shoes to stand on. But I am not yet sure.
• Perhaps all of the two-wheel skates can be mentioned together (think Rocket Skate")

In September of 1953 an advertisement by the "Rocket Skate Company" for two wheel inline skates appeared in Popular Science. They were briefly described in the April 1950 issue of Popular Mechanics and again in the April 1954 issue of Popular Science in the section called "New Ideas from the Inventors".{{cite web

|url=http://www.popsci.com/archive-viewer?id=xyADAAAAMBAJ&pg=120&query=skate+to+have+wheels

|title=PopSci Archive Viewer - Popular Science

|work=Popular Science

|access-date=15 September 2014

|archive-date=20 February 2014

|archive-url=https://archive.org/stream/bub_gb_Bi0DAAAAMBAJ/bub_gb_Bi0DAAAAMBAJ_djvu.txt

|url-status=dead}}

• Another two-wheel skate. This one has normal-sized wheels, compared to the D. Napier one.
• See pictures online such as [https://www.periodpaper.com/products/1953-ad-rocket-roller-skates-1121-37-chestnut-st-burbank-ca-sporting-goods-toy-211026-psc3-241 this one]
• Note how modern websites tend to attach "roller skate" to these past ads. The ads themselves say nothing of roller skates. See the text version of the quoted Popular Science page.
• I'll think about how to incorporate it back into the article.

The first U.S. patent for modern in-line skates, designed to behave like ice runners with individually sprung and cushioned wheels, was granted in July 1953 to Ernest Kahlert of Santa Ana, CA.{{Cite patent

|country=US

|number=2644692

|pubdate=1953-07-07

|title=Roller skate

|inventor1-last=Kahlert

|inventor1-first=Ernest

}}

• The Kahlert skate from 1953 is well after Shaler's 1860 skate which already had a frame with sides, and inline wheels lined up inside the frame.
• As mentioned in references before 1860 that I've already added, Kahlert's is not the first "inline" skates. All wheels skates started inline well before the 1800s. I am not sure I see the importance of this invention. But I'll come back to it later.
• Better OCR-ed text and original scanned patent doc can be found at [https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search/family/022858174/publication/US2644692A?q=pn%3DUS2644692A Espacenet].

File:Skf-speedy-inline-skates.jpg

In 1978, the German branch of SKF presented the "Speedy"-System, but the product was cancelled less than one year from market, as the management did not want a consumer product in the portfolio of the company.{{citation needed|date=June 2019}}

• Need more textual context about the relevance and importance this played in the history of inline skates.

File:Mettoy Skeelers-Inline roller skates from 1969 1972-overview-Nicks Pick.jpg

In 1969, the UK toy company Mettoy produced "Skeelers" (after the Dutch word for ice skaters), inline skates with 3 large wheels, which despite wide promotion, only had limited sales. They were originally developed for Russian hockey players and speed skaters, and in 1972, were unsuccessfully marketed in Canada by Mountain Dew. The wheel frame in these Skeelers are reminiscent of the 1860 wheel-skate from Reuben Shaler.{{cite news

|author=

|date=1972-08-01

|volume=25

|number=34

|title=Mettoy's ad on Skeelers

|url=https://archive.thehockeynews.com/issue/596121

|url-status=live

|work=The Hockey News

|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20241122024053/https://archive.thehockeynews.com/issue/596121

|archive-date=2024-11-22

|access-date=2024-11-22

}}

• I removed Mettoy paragraph and image - I can't get right's owner to confirm cc-by-sa. This paragraph is not useful without an image. There is a only the one single news article to reference.

From the External Links section:

These two links to wheel setups can be reused, but they should be cited inline with text. Showing these are general external links doesn't make sense. I'll get to these when I rewrite the wheel setup section.

• [https://web.archive.org/web/20130629235737/http://www.londonskaters.com/article_rockering.htm The Londonskaters guide to rockering inline skates]
• [http://skating.thierstein.net/Knowledge/Inline_Skating_Rollerblading_Knowledge_Rockering.html Markus Thierstein's original article]

{{reflist-talk}}

The article looks well prepared and informative, the tag can be removed. Hausa warrior (talk) 12:53, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

:Thanks for the vote of confidence. The reason why the templates remain at the top is because the "Parts" section and the "wheel setup" section have not been processed. But I've stuck sectional templates there already. So perhaps it's time I retire the article template. I'll continue to work on the last two sections. Cheers. Fred Hsu (talk) 00:02, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

This article is too long to read and navigate comfortably. When the tag was added, its readable prose size was 18,204 words. Consider splitting content into sub-article or condensing it. The article size impacts usability in multiple ways: Reader issues, such as attention span, readability, organization, information saturation, etc. (when articles are large). Total article size should be kept reasonably low, particularly for readers using slow internet connections or mobile devices or who have slow computer loading. Some large articles exist for topics that require depth and detail, but typically articles of such size are split into two or more smaller articles.{{pb}}

class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="4" style="background:none;"
Word count ! scope="col" | What to do
style="background: #ffffcc; text-align:center;"|this article{{hr}} 18,204 words	style="background: #ffffcc;"|Needs to be divided or trimmed
> 15,000 words	Almost certainly should be divided or trimmed.
> 9,000 words	Probably should be divided or trimmed.

— Isaidnoway (talk) 02:45, 10 April 2025 (UTC)—

:Thanks for the suggestion. Splitting this article into a few child articles has been part of the plan during this rewrite. The rewrite has not yet been done. Premature-splitting would cause hardship for citations.

:Please scroll back up for discussions.

:I am going to replace the split template with the rewrite template I'd been using until recently, for now.

:Cheers. Fred Hsu (talk) 00:53, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

I suggest group images in galleries for each section. It would be more readable in portrait/mobile and desktop 45.232.105.68 (talk) 12:47, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:With the exception of only a few sections, images in each section are meant to illustrate individual paragraphs they immediately preceded. These are not gallery images. Most are illustrations for concepts discussed in a paragraph. About half of these images were tailor-made for paragraphs, after each paragraph was written. Moving them to a gallery serves no practical purposes.

:I do agree that in the present form, they are more usable read on a desktop. On a phone, not so much. But moving them out into a gallery is even worst than they currently are, for phones, I think. On phones, right now an illustration shows up immediately before the text it illustrates. You may not like it that way. But I wish there is a better way. What do you think?

:In a few cases, I had to pile a bunch of images at the top of a section, and let them flow down (on a desktop view) on the right side of paragraphs. This happens where there are not enough text to distribute images immediately preceding individual paragraphs. This has been an issue since the beginning of Wikipedian time.

:But regardless of gallery vs no-gallery, please don't simply remove all pixel specifications from thumbnails. We can debate / adjust individual sizing of thumbnails. But simply removing them all doesn't make anything better. As a starter, look at the two lead images after your first change. The pink Impala skates became huge compared to the urban skates. I don't know that that is better. For another example, look at the Rotations section. Your changes made three different rotation diagrams show up in different scales, while they all illustrate the same two pairs of skates. This is as viewed on a desktop where I edit the article. Can't possibly make the type of edits I make on my phone. I have like ten tabs open given any one edit.

:But it is possible that I am missing something. Help me understand the purpose of removing all pixel sizing from images. I am happy to learn and adapt. Cheers. Fred. Fred Hsu (talk) 23:05, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

::One benefit of removing pixel size is lightening the weight of the page . 45.232.105.68 (talk) 14:59, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Interesting. I did not know that. But don't worry, I'll split this article into many child articles when I am completely done writing it. It's ten times longer that it should be. It's now a book. But I can't split it until I am done rewriting. That would be a logistical nightmare for many reasons, chiefly citation nightmare. Fred Hsu (talk) 02:19, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

:For now I am working on mostly cosmetic edits, although it is primarily an expansion and revision period. Besides the fact that cosmetic changes are important, it is hard to know if it is best to work on the present revision, and hold off until it is completed. Glazer029 (talk) 2:23, 3 June 2025 (UTC)