Template talk:Episode list#Edit request 21 April 2024

{{ping|Gonnym}} The category Episode lists with TBA values has suddenly got flooded with loads of erroneously tagged articles. Is it anything to do with your changes to the module? (Also pinging both {{ping|Alex 21|Jonesey95}} because Gonnym has a wikibreak notice on their user page and I'm not sure if it's current) - X201 (talk) 09:41, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:AH!, it's because it now detects {{TableTBA|N/A}}. What's the plan for dealing with those? Do they need to be removed or changed? - X201 (talk) 09:44, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

::Using {{tl|TableTBA}} is the same as writing the text without a template. I've written down in the category how to get pages removed from that category. Whatever is left after the category has been gone over should be investigated to see why that template is needed. Either the module should be updated to handle those situations or those situations should be ignored by the module. Gonnym (talk) 10:33, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

:::Thanks. I'll get on it. It was a bit of a shock, after daily cleaning out that category, to find it suddenly full again. - X201 (talk) 11:52, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the explanatory text on the category. Regarding the bit that goes {{tq|"In some situations N/A is used when None is the correct word (if a talk show had no musical guests on a specific episode, then None is what should should be set)."}} would a dash be a suitable alternative as well? I've added none to The All Electric Amusement Arcade but can't help feeling that the fact that there was no song would be better communicated by a lack of text in that column. - X201 (talk) 08:21, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

:Dash doesn't explain the lack of cell information. "N/A" means "The data is not available", "TBA" and "TBD" mean "To be announced" or "determined", but what does a dash mean? Is there information and we just don't know what it is? Has it yet to be announced? Did that specific episode not have that? That is why I said that "None" should be used when we want to tell our readers that the cell isn't empty because we lack information, but because there wasn't . Gonnym (talk) 14:07, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

Articles are being included in :Category:Episode lists with TBA values when they use the {{tl|Unreported UK viewers}} template. This is because the template transcludes {{tl|TableTBA}}. To be honest, I've always thought that having it render as N/A (<1.66) was a bit incongruous; why say N/A and then give a number? I'd be OK with the N/A part being removed and just keep the numbers. - X201 (talk) 08:54, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

:Yeah, I was also looking at that and didn't understand. Either we have data or we don't. I'm assuming the data (in the above example, "<1.66") is not made up, so just leave the data itself with the note (if the note is actually needed). Gonnym (talk) 09:17, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

::The data will be from the BARB viewing figures; the number belongs to the last show on the list for a particular week, indicating that the show the article is about did worse than that figure. It's useful on shows that have been a bit of a ratings stinker e.g Warren (TV series), luckily Warren was so bad that it actually got reported on so the actual numbers were reported and were able to referenced. Alternatively if a show starts low and then builds a big audience it can indicate that. I think a rejig of the note text may help, so that it fully explains what the user is seeing. Something that conveys "Failed to reach threshold for inclusion in ratings chart. Threshold on particular week was:" - X201 (talk) 10:33, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

:::Your wording is much clearer. Gonnym (talk) 11:10, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

Is it an easy task to go through instances of the template where {{para|EpisodeNumber}} or {{para|EpisodeNumber2}} use leading zeros for episode numbers, specifically 1 through 9? So 01, 02, 03 etc. to 09. Doing some maintenance converting tables to {{tl|Episode table}} I've noticed some uses of this (mostly on Japanese manga/anime articles). I'm changing them as I go, but it's likely more exist that can be quickly fixed. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:22, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

:There are [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=insource%3A%22EpisodeNumber%22+insource%3A%2FEpisodeNumber2%3F+*%3D+*0%2B%5B0-9%5D%2F&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1 714] articles that use {{para|EpisodeNumber[2]|0#}}. It could very easily be fixed via AWB. -- Alex_21 _TALK 22:36, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

::I double checked MOS:NUM and while there's not explicit mention of leading zeros (outside of use for numbers -1 < 0 > 1), it also doesn't explicitly state they should be used. Common convention I feel is that they shouldn't be used. We also have an example of leading zeros in the documentation. I'm going to be bold and remove those, and then I think the AWB run should happen. I can't see why all of the 714 pages shouldn't have them removed but there is the chance a very small handful might for some reason I can't think of currently. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:29, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

::Documentation updated [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AEpisode_list%2Fdoc&diff=1284262324&oldid=1278747022 here]. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:33, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

:::Ok after doing a very quick scroll through those 714 articles, I want to flag List of Doctor Who audiobooks, List of Stargate literature and Saint October as articles that would need closer examination. The first two especially since they are not TV-related articles and are using this template. The third one we just need to remove the "-26" from each episode. All others looks pretty straight forward. {{u|Gonnym}} I know you may have seen this discussion already, but just a courtesy ping to you as well about these. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:05, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

::::{{re|Alex 21}} can you go through the now 712 articles (save for the two I noted above if we need a further discussion on them) and adjust? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:46, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::{{doing}} -- Alex_21 _TALK 04:26, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::{{done}} -- Alex_21 _TALK 05:55, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

I've just gone through and cleared out a good amount of articles from :Category:Episode lists with row deviations. There previously were about 100 or so in there and what I removed were a lot of instances where the parameter was being used to no affect or no real purpose, and also removed largely on anime/manga episodes articles where it was to note a special (this being clear through other parameters). What's left in the cat, as I see it, is a lot of uses on Doctor Who related media pages to indicate "upcoming" releases (I don't think we should do this), and other instances on non-scripted shows to indicate winners etc. (I think this could be a valid use). After doing this clean up, I felt it was necessary to have a larger discussion about the parameter and if it even should still exist. See also Template_talk:Episode_list/Archive_5#TopColor for context which was linked in the category. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:36, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

:The 'upcoming' examples seem unnecessary to me, they already have a date column to cover that. The 'winners' examples feel like a more valid use of the param, giving a quick and easy visual aid, but having something only indicated by colours is an accessibility issue. - adamstom97 (talk) 11:42, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

::I've gotten distracted, but I think we should still adjust this documentation wording. I'll try to come up with a suggestion soon to get further input on. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:47, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

Please update this template so that the tooltip properly explains that TBA stands for "To Be Announced" as currently the tooltip simply repeats the text "TBA" which is not informative and does not actually explain what TBA stands for. (Someone somewhere is a new reader, possibly even a reader with English as their second language, so acronyms and initialisms do need to be explained.) It may be helpful to look at Template:TBA or Template:TableTBA.) If in doubt please ask the people at WP:ACCESSIBILITY who know better than I do about accessibility and the needs of users with screen readers. -- 109.79.166.201 (talk) 09:39, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}} -- Alex_21 _TALK 00:12, 18 May 2025 (UTC)