Template talk:Infobox television episode#Proposal to remove coordinates parameter

Apologies for the possibly stupid question: how do you remove the automatically created episode link list in this template? Looking at Finale (Neighbours), and all other episode articles from that series, it links to a redirect to the main series page, so would be good to remove. I notice that Pretty Baby.... and etc. from EastEnders have managed to remove the link, but I can't figure out how this was achieved (there is a blank episode_list field in the infobox, but I can't replicate the effect). However it's done, could this be added to the documentation? U-Mos (talk) 21:35, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

:I believe it is automatically finding List of Neighbours episodes and creating the link (List of EastEnders episodes does not exist which is why a link is not being created for those articles). Taking a quick look at Neighbours it does look like there is not list of episodes or equivalent to link to so I think it would be reasonable to come up with some sort of override param to prevent the link from being created in these situations. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:21, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

::Ah, I see. In the meantime, would it be an idea to request a technical deletion of the redirect that is causing this? U-Mos (talk) 03:57, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

:::I thought about that but I think it is something that would reasonably be searched for by readers and should therefore probably still exist as a redirect, so that's why I suggested we come up with a way to override the automatic link for these situations. - adamstom97 (talk) 04:45, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

::::I suppose it could check if the bluelink is a redirect, though I feel like there would be some false positives that got skipped that way (in particular, if the list page had a name change but the link wasn't updated). Primefac (talk) 08:15, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

:::::We wouldn't want to ignore redirects that are pointing to an actual list of episodes within the series article. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:00, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

::::::Agreed. I think if a list of episodes doesn't exist, either as an article or as a subsection of the primary article (as in this case), it would be reasonable to have the existing redirect deleted at RFD. Primefac (talk) 08:45, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

:::::::For clarity: List of Neighbours episodes is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/List_of_Neighbours_episodes not linked to by any articles], save transclusions from this infobox, and exists as a redirect due to an ill-conceived and incomplete [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Neighbours_episodes&oldid=377720878 attempt at an article] over a decade ago. U-Mos (talk) 23:30, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

I've modified the sandbox here and at Infobox Simpsons episode to handle episode with segments like Treehouse of Horror II. This was done to handle the incorrect syntax caused in the writers section. See the versions at Template:Infobox Simpsons episode/testcases. Any comments, visual or otherwise, are welcomed. Gonnym (talk) 09:38, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

"Showrunner" should be added in the template, and the entry should be listed above "Directed by," as the showrunner is responsible for all the creative and management responsibilities of that episode within the entire season. And remove the "producer" entry as the showunner(s) is typically credited as an executive producer. "Produced by" is inaccurately used here as that refers to the production facilities/logistics producer who facilitates the choreography, stunts, and other physical productions on set during live filming. 2600:1700:B331:50F0:C9F3:119E:1837:833 (talk) 18:21, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

:This previously came up at Template talk:Infobox television#Alternatives to writer and director parameters and the outcome was to have a new discussion about whether to:

:* replace the producer param with a showrunner param, since it is expected that the producer param be used for showrunners and we now have showrunner params at Infobox television and Infobox television season

:* or just remove the producer param and have nowhere for the showrunner in this infobox

:I think my preference would be to have no producer or showrunner params, as the showrunner doesn't change from episode to episode and the information that is in this infobox is intended to be episode-specific. That is why we don't re-list the main cast here, only guest cast for the episode, for example. - adamstom97 (talk) 18:54, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

::But the showrunner is also above the authority of the episode's writer and director (if the showrunner didn't choose to write it themselves), and they oversee the casting, guest stars, hiring of crew, selecting hair, make up and set design. I personally call for replacing the "producer" entry with "showrunner" for this infobox. 2600:1700:B331:50F0:C9F3:119E:1837:833 (talk) 19:01, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

:::I agree something should be done with this. I can see both sides, in that showrunners are still likely credited each episode as EPs, even if they have no direct credit involvement for said episode (ie as the writer). But I can also see how that info isn't going to change episode to episode in a season, and is likely better left to the season and main article infoboxes. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

::::I agree that this would simply be duplicated information, and should be a parameter used only in the season and parent infoboxes. Guest cast, writers and directors can (and typically do) change between episodes; showrunners typically don't. The only example I can think of being otherwise would be Star Wars: Visions. -- Alex_21 _TALK 23:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

:::::From a serialized series standpoint, yes {{para|producer}} is the only one that looks like it could be removed. However, as you noted Alex, how would that affect anthology/one off types of series where each episode is largely contained to itself? Taking your Visions example, I haven't looked at any recently, but I still feel in that instance there'd likely be common executive producers to not necessarily need this parameter. {{para|module}} does still exist here to add additional infobox items, should that be absolutely vital. I wonder if it would be helpful to start up a tracking category for the producer parameter to get an idea of how it is being used before proceeding with possibly depreciating it. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:06, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

::::::I don't see how a showrunner per episode is helpful. Season level is important as a showrunner handles the season story arc, but per episode doesn't add anything. Gonnym (talk) 08:38, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

:::::::Sandbox has been updated to remove the producer parameter. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:34, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

::::::::Any thoughts on making this change in the live template? - adamstom97 (talk) 16:08, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

{{od}} Forgot about this. I'm good with making it live. We'll just need some clean up work afterwards to remove the use of parameter. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:29, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

:{{ping|Alex 21|Gonnym}} as the other commenters with the IP, any further comments or are you also both okay moving forward with this removal? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:05, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

::Have no objection. I'm almost positive I've never seen an episode article mention the episode's producer. Gonnym (talk) 23:13, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

:::Agreed. -- Alex_21 _TALK 01:18, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

::::{{done}}. Now we'll just need some clean up to go through and remove it all from where it's being used. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:34, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

:::::There's [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=insource%3A%22Infobox+television+episode%22+insource%3A%2F%5C%7C+%2Aproducer+%2A%3D%2F&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1 3,800+] articles that use the parameter, many of which are empty. -- Alex_21 _TALK 01:42, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

::::::I think a bot/AWB can go through pretty easily to get rid of those empty ones, and for ones with use likely the same. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:18, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

:::::::@Primefac can your bot help with the removal of this parameter? Gonnym (talk) 10:55, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

::::::::Are populated {{para|producer}} parameters being converted or removed? Primefac (talk) 14:17, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:::::::::Outright removed. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:04, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

::::::::::Can probably get to it this weekend. Primefac (talk) 15:07, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Due to the recent consensus where articles for seasons of a series are now called " season #" instead of " (season #)", the information in the "Season article" section of the template should say "Title of the season article, usually in the form of " season #" article. Use plain text, the template will automatically format and link the article." instead of "Title of the season article, usually in the form of " (season #)" article. Use plain text, the template will automatically format and link the article." -- Mjks28 (talk) 00:01, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

:@Mjks28 The documentation page is editable by all editors, including yourself. {{done}} -- Alex_21 _TALK 07:14, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

::Oops, I didn't realise. Thanks -- Mjks28 (talk) 07:23, 15 August 2024 (UTC)