User:TheCustomOfLife/Soap policy discussion
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when I'm trying to make consensus policy in my Wikiproject, does the discussion need to be on the page itself?
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because I'm putting the note there. gcbirzan has quit IRC (Nick collision from services.)
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hello?
anyone?
She's...dead, Jim!
I'm actually asking a Wikipedia question?
TheCustomOfLife: That's a bannable offense.
le cry
I doubt there's a firm policy about where to put a certain type of discussion.
If it relates to the project, I'd say put it on the project Talk page.
yeah put it on the talk page
can I ask a legal question?
how do you call this when a court orders a suspect detained prior to trial?
remand?
TheCustomOfLife: If talk happen elsewhere, at least link to it. It's good to have for the future if someone starts in with "well who decided that anyway?"
sub- yes
who decides remand in the US?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Soap_Operas
the judge
Judges, I think.
read that and please add input. nealmcb has joined #wikipedia
I think it's especially important to get input from people who aren't contributing to the soap articles themselves.
to get a fresh perspective.
mmmh Submarine fails to see the diff between the US and French systems on this point
Check out User:Budd, he's the pelican shit guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Men
(and, er, he's editing articles with that)
taken care of MoeJoe has joined #wikipedia
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pick one: sand beige or fresh blue nemo has quit IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
Is anyone feeling up to commenting on my WikiProject policy proposal?
TheCustomOfLife, the soap opera one? I didn't quite understand what was the proposed solution
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k, I'll give an example
right now, in the soap articles and soap actor articles, they post casting information straight out of Soap Digest.
So an article will say "so and so will leave the show in April" rofo_ has quit IRC (Client Quit)
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I don't feel it's right to publish that stuff, because it's not fact YET
like, they haven't left that moment, they're still airing ugen64 changes topic to 'Status: Up | COTW: Military history of the United States | Wikipedia DVD Project: #wikidisc / http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=452353 | Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Guanaco2'
I gave an example of a casting decision that was reversed
oh ok.. so those are really "rumors" and not "confirmed facts"? I mean, there are instances of rumors being wrong?
no, most of these are confirmed exits and entrances
but the thing is, it hasn't aired yet
for, like, two months.
I don't feel Wikipedia is the "Comings and Goings" section of Soap Digest.
but, are they from reliable sources?
yes, but my point is that they haven't aired yet
hmmm, it may be encyclopedic even if it's reversed though, since it was almost going to happen
so why are they on Wikipedia? ambi2 has joined #wikipedia
I just don't think some appreciate going there and reading about cast changes
er U.S. presidential election, 2008
because some don't like to be spoiled. a factual article shouldn't really have those.
TheCustomOfLife, well, we do collect encylopedic knowledge... and we don't care it it's a spoiler or not... if it's a "fact", it's fine by me.. but if I do comment,
I'll do it tomorrow (I have it in my bookmark), because I am not sober enough right now
then slap a spoiler alert
it isn't fair that it should have one.
you're getting my point? I don't like the idea of "if you don't like spoilers, don't read the article"
because people won't
maybe make a special spoiler alert "below is information about episodes that haven't aired yet"
and it shuts off a lot of people who'd otherwise be interested
see, I'd like that.
TheCustomOfLife, I do understand it... but we should probably just add a bigger "spoiler" note...
The spoiler bit shouldn't be on the whole article.
because for the most part, it covers history
stuff that happened.
yeah, it might be nice to have an "end spoiler" tag too
and an end superspoiler
there was a world before Soap Digest. They didn't know what was going to air, so why should we cater to the people who like them?
them being spoilers cky has joined #wikipedia
I know I didn't appreciate finding out that Ashley Bashioum won't be airing anymore as Mackenzie on The Young and the Restless.
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iMeowbot, I've responded to you
on the WikiProject talk AdamBishop has joined #wikipedia
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Heh, Colin Burnett. :)
CustomOfLife - Soap digest is never wrong in their speculation?
they are
hi Austin
on teh quarter Washingtons head has the In God we trust, and the obverse side has the vineholding eagle and E Pluribus Unum.
but it's so rare.
Hey Colin. :)
like
there's a speculation section
then a "Comings and Goings"
which means who IS leaving
and who IS staying
and who IS coming.
I used to figure you for a chick, you know. Blame a popular 70s celebrity.
Custom - how often are these articles updated anyway? Nana has joined #wikipedia
You'd be surprised. It's pretty much many times daily.
it depends on which soap it is. Some soaps are more popular with the bot.
Nana, there you are! (I am not stalking you, I swear, a fucking coincidence) :)
I've found that they really like All My Children and One Life to Live, but this casting dilemma has found its way to all the articles.
when they spread to the soap ACTOR articles is when a red flag came up, for me
I mean, are we gonna put spoiler notices on actor articles?
TheCustomOfLife, would it be a good solution to separate general info articles and plot describing articles?
I don't know, really.
I mean, for example
, hi Pechorin
CustomOfLife - Although the edits are verifiable, it's still speculation, even if the digest is more right than wrong. I think you're safe with Verifiability
All My Children splits up the history into four different sections
am here but onmy way out, sorry:)
but there is a cast list
in each article
and you'll see that there's (so and so airs until spring)
or (so and so starts airing in April)
Nana, no worries, I am about to go to sleep.. BUT, srecan 8. mart i javi se bre nekad jebote :)
yo, any brits on the channel?
it's not even a distinctly American thing
it's also on EastEnders
cimon, I saw a shitload of BBC comedy.. do I count as british? :)
Pechorin, , hvala hvala:) , bom, ko utegnem:)
Nana, that's the story of my life :)
in, Pechorin lahko noÄ
laku noc!
Oh god. Cantus is on the loose!
CustomOfLife what's wrong with the cast list on all my children?
Pechorin, , men je res zal, ampak zadnje case sem overloaded in nimam casa chattat sploh
(for anyone not speaking serbo-slovenian: pechorin just got fucked off by Nana)
Does it not have any of those examples?
let me see rio|away is now known as riorio
Kelli Giddish (Diana Cole) starting March 15th
that's what I'm talking about
Nana, razumem, nema problema... ali, nemoj da zaboravis da postojim i da imam divan smisao za humor, i da se secam 8. marta, a bogami i ostalih praznika :)
not rtue at all, Nana just explaining she's rater busy lately, Pechorin ull see how it will be when u get to writiing up ur PhD
No one is going to know who Diana Cole is now
unless they read spoilers
she is a new character.
Nana, ok :)
and even a recast is shaky ground
CustomOfLife - what's wrong with that though?
it's that people who don't read that shouldn't have to know about it
especially in a cast list
because they're not part of the cast airing on the show yet.
It isn't in the now. qtip has joined #wikipedia
ohhh, I see the starting march 15th now
soaps soaps soaps
CustomOfLife - well that's not current cast members, that should be removed.
It's not really a question of speculation
because she is coming
her first scenes have been taped
she will air.
but that's just it.
she WILL air.
She is not airing now. mjec is now known as mjec-away
yes, but she didn't
indeed.
then it's not current
exactly.
hehehe
and people rever this when you take it out?
Well, that's just it, it hasn't been done yet.
There are anonymous bots who add it in.
and I would very well be reverted if I tried.
so I want to start a discussion.
try it and we'll see
what if the actress dies tomorrow. Then it's not guaranteed that she will be aired.
exactly.
I didn't even think of that
but that is very valid indeed.
334-384
and there are other examples on the articles
oops, wroong window ...
Whee, I just edited a Wikinews article.
Custom- the until spring thing?
yeah
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Custom - have you talked to the bot's creator about this?
Well, that's just it
it's speculative as to who the bot actually belongs to
I've nailed it down to User:PeterAKer
but without further studying
I am not 100% sure.
It's a guess.
I thought bot owners were supposed to be identified
grr .. ok, me and the calorimetry lab jsut did not get along.
This used to be a problem "user"
Anyone know if the number slated for the amount of men in a Roman Cohort(480) is accurate?
but apparently he has read the discussions on him, and then started to reform...albeit slightly.
Custom - what's the bot's name?
AdamBishop?
It just operates under IP addresses.
See User:B-Movie Bandit for the list of IPs.
Too bad Muriel Gottrop is not an irc'er
Since he hasn't really caused problems in a few months, I don't think the list of IPs has been updated in a while
but the vague ranges are there.
Oh, I wish.
Why doesn't kate's edit counter work anymore? :(
she would sort aout any questions about cohorts in short order.
All I know is that the roman centuries were always short like their swords. 60 to 75 men being the norm.
Custom - and none of these anon bots/editors talk/discuss on pages or what not?
no.
that's the problem.
read the discussions on the B-Movie Bandit page.
It should fill you in on it all.
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PZFUN: it was written in java, nonfree, so it was removed
The idea was that a centurion was competent to lead 100 men, so that if two centuries were decimated, they could easily merge.
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Burgundavia > Yes, but its not on an external website but it doesn't seem to work anymore
PZFUN: she removed it, due to the java issue
it was hosted on wp servers, from what i understand
Custom - you want to make a policy to address the contributions of a list of IPs who never discuss their changes?
Burgundavia: Yo, man!
hey cimon
cimon, decimated is a specific term
well, I want it to be policy for others, since they have also edited these speculations in
so it's not just the IP
but the IP is the main problem.
yes, I was applying it liverally.
means killing one man in 10, as punishment
Since the IP has "reformed," so to speak, I figure with the policy, he'd reform to that, too
Custom - what about having theese supposed comings and goings under a diffrent section? Would you agree to that?
Burgundavia> supposed to confuse troop coördination.
yay, coördination! :)
I don't think that would be bad, but a speculative casting article?
question: do disambiguation pages /have/ to contain links?
Ok, anyone taken the basic calorimetry lab?
because it'd still be in the same casting area if it weren't its own article
Personally, I don't see the need for it to be there at all.
Custom - honestly, until you actually get a user who objects, I would just remove/fix the pages
TheCustomOfLife: what bot are we discussing?
I'd rather get a consensus decision before just doing something that could so easily be reverted.
User:B-Movie Bandit proxies
Custom - the bot is that quick on reverting?
it's that quick on editing it in.
fine, i'll leave
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It has to deal with nine articles.
I don't want to edit out nine instances
only to have it added back in nine places
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Custom - and the alternative is having an admin block of a list of IPs? I dont think that'll happen
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but are you listening to me about the policy?
the person who's operating the bot obviously read the first discussion, because they're not creating shitty substubs anymore
if they read the second discussion, then I have hope that it'll go away.
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I just don't understand why the Wiki user doesn't own up to owning the bots. It'd make it a lot easier to contact him/her.
Custom - has it been discussed anywhere that putting supposed new cast members is not appreciated?
This is the first time.
That's why I brought it up in the first place.
it just seems odd to me that you're making a policy for something that's not currently a problem
I see it as a problem
and I figure it's so small, and just for this project.
It's not like 100 editors work on this project.
I'd say 15 or 16, tops
if that.
Speculation about futere is problematic, and should probably be authoritatively sourced.
yeah, I know you see it as a problem, but how does the guy know you have a problem if you never mentionned it before
That's why I'm mentioning it now?
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yeah, as a proposed policy, which I find weird
for soap articles.
not for Wikipedia.
nine soap articles, and the few hundred or so actor articles
so it's fairly minor
I mean, if you want me to take out the word "policy"....
Oh my god
Want to see the lamest edit war, EVER?
but then that implies that it's only suggested
and it should be rule. I'd like it to be.
it's not the word policy, it's just that you haven't even asked nicely for him to stop
The bots don't respond to talk.
Honestly.
revert it, state your reasons on the talk page, and maybe he'll just stop
Did you not read the B-Movie Bandit?
you just said the guy reads the discussions
after months.
PZFUN> go ahead...
and he'll read the policy sooner?
I say the sooner it can be enforced, the better.
enforced how? I'll be surprised if you find an admin who blocks a list of IPs
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PZFUN> even the title is a chuckle.
not forever
but for a few hours.
it has happened in the past.
Cimon > That's what the edit war is over
South Africans say Spioenkop, because its the proper name of the mountain where the battle took place
but honestly, seriously, just read the B-Movie Bandit stuff. I think some of your concerns will be addressed if you just read it
(SPy Hill)
Um.... lets see, there appears to be a bot operating without approval per the bot policy, right?
yes.
but British people got the name wrong and say Spion Kop
And nobody has yet asked a developer to check the ID of the bot owner?:)
So all the South African editors want to make it Spioenkop as its a South African war
Jamesday - he's not sure it's a bot
no, haha
Perhaps someone should?:)
perhaps.
jag123, it's most definitely a bot.
I mean, there is a developer here who has a definite interest in potentially disruptive bots:)
Jamesday, have you been following User:B-Movie Bandit?
PZFUN> I think google is a valid way to chekc that particular dispute.
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And _if_ someone has set a bot to auto-revert, that appears to be something pretty contrary to practie and normallya ccepted behavior.
James - all they have is a list of IPs. It could be a shy human editor who doesn't speak good english
the phrasing is too fixed to be a human.
TheCustomOfLife, seems to be doing useful things, creating lots of good short articles about B movies and their casts.
Which some peopel strongly disliked, of course:)
Some people would disagree.
like me.
But that's a different issue fro the bot one:)
Custom - someone can cut and paste
And hta's what I'm really discussing at present, not useful stubs:)
can, but let's be real here.
I don't think that's what it is
and others don't, either.
Cimon > Spion Kop comes up with more references, but its an incorrect spelling
This discussion has been going on for probably six months.
Anyway, if a bot is involved and isn't approved, I may investigate that myself
Jamesday, whut is a "public dump", I f you dont mind me asking, and is it something that should be added into the channel topic?
But I prefer to have a community request for such checks.
Where do I do that?
Cimon, it's download.wikimedia.org
Custom- the nine articles, it's the ones ini US Soap operas?
here :)
anywhere you can find me :)
Cimon > Just like the Bunker Hill Monument is on the wrong hill, it doesn't mean that we should talk about the Bunker Hill Battle taking place there just because it comes up with more hits on Google
the nine articles are the nine US soaps, correct
PZFUN: then put the article under the incorrect name and put a note in the 1st para
plus whatever soap actor articles are affected
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