User talk:Antandrus#Aggressive IP Editor

Hi there. Welcome to Wikipedia. Thanks for your note at Wikipedia:New user log.

I'm sure there are plenty of things you can contribute to here. You might want to check out List of classical music composers, List of musical topics, and Wikipedia:Requested articles/music. The last one, especially, has a lot of suggestions for articles that don't exist yet, but that someone would like to see.

Here are some links you might find useful:

• Welcome is a good place to start.
• Wikipedia:How does one edit a page gives editing help.
• Wikipedia:Manual of Style gives formatting info.
• Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines tell about the principles we operate on. It's important, but don't try to read it all now.
• Wikipedia:Help covers a broad range of useful topics.
• Wikipedia:Village pump is a place to ask questions.
• Wikipedia:Show preview explains how to double-check your edits before saving.

You should also feel free to drop me a question on my talk page. I'll answer if I'm here.

Happy editing, Isomorphic 18:23, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

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My story today is about an opera singer born OTD in 1870. -Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:42, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Tout est lumière. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:19, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

today: a woman in red --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:34, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

Check out my talk: for a great woman's Johannes-Passion (listen!), our music in detail, and three people who recently died and are on the main page (where she isn't). My call for collaboration has the first "no", and the second - for the Easter Oratorio - seems inevitable. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:15, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

My story is about music that Bach and Picander gave the world 300 years (and 19 days) ago, - listen (on the conductor's birthday) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:25, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

I wrote my story today and then found it's the person's funeral day. - I hated to see DYK for Johannes-Passion (Gubaidulina) today instead of Good Friday, but it seems also right in the context. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:22, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

I finally managed to upload the pics I meant for Easter, see places. - Also finally, I managed a FAC, Easter Oratorio. I wanted that on the main page for Easter Sunday, but no, twice. You are invited to join a discussion about what "On this day" means, day or date. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:25, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

My music features Bach Bach Bach today ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:26, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

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Bach's cantata was performed 300 years ago, by occasion. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:30, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

Today's main page has again memories of three people who died, for two just the name and for the third an image (great!) coupled with a little bit from her life which seems too little for my taste. What do you think? - A friend of mine sang in Verdi's Requiem at Trinity Church, - you can watch [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ld7VNaKss the lifestream] (Verdi about 30 minutes into it). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:47, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

Recommended reading today: Christfried Schmidt, a story about patience. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:13, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

check my talk today for two pics of Margot Friedländer --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:40, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

one was replaced by a pic of May Abrahamse (with uncertain licensing), and Vakhtang Machavariani is nominated --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:42, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:Mendelssohn's Italian symphony was premiered on 13 May, I know this so well because on this day my local classical station did not communicate well enough internally, and so the afternoon show ended by noting this fact and playing the complete Italian symphony, and after the NPR news, the evening show began by noting this fact and playing the complete Italian symphony. I haven't done the whole "listen to a long piece and then listen to it immediately again" since studying for general exams in grad school! -- Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert (talk) 21:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

::Ha ha! I'm going to guess they did not know the premiere date of Satie's Vexations. (One would hope.) Antandrus (talk) 21:40, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

listen to Machavariani's Mariupol --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:36, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

musings on 15 May --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:14, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

birthday of Erik Satie --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:50, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

all Verdi today: tenor Luigi Alva and the premiere OTD of his Requiem, see my talk - remember that early in the thread there was a link to a performance? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:33, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

A first: two stories about two people who worked together and died the same day --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:09, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, born 100 years ago, described by Alan Blyth --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:50, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:There is so much music - lieder by Schubert, songs by Samuel Barber, and on and on - which, when I listen in my head, comes up in the voice of Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau. He seemed to own the repertory in a way no one else ever did, at least in modern times. Antandrus (talk) 21:23, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:: I agree! - Reasons to look at Bach today (and listen): it's a recent GA (not by me), he assumed the position of Thomaskantor OTD in 1723, he's up for PR, and several of his cantatas for GA, and his Easter Oratorio for FAC --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:32, 30 May 2025 (UTC)

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Presidio of Santa Barbara has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 14:46, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

Musing that User:Antandrus/observations on Wikipedia behavior could perhaps use something like "An editor who is losing a dispute will often start accusing their opponents of bullying, because clearly if everyone else disagrees with them, it's because they enjoy picking on poor, innocent editors like them". The Bushranger _{One ping only} 21:27, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:That's a good idea. Indeed "bullying" is one of those words which, when used on Wikipedia, often applies best to the one using the word. We could probably compile a list of these. (Somehow I managed to miss this when you posted it.) Antandrus (talk) 21:43, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi, good to stumble upon a long time not seen oldtimer :-) I am writing up a bio of Nachum Shternheim and while combing Wikipedia for the name, I run into an archive Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2007 March 19 where you mentioned Shternheim. I am a lazy writer and usually I am content with AfD-survivable bio stubs, so I am wondering whether you know something to add. --Altenmann >talk 22:39, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hi Altenmann - wonderful to see you here, seems like a lifetime ago. I looked through my library but did not come up with much for Shternheim. The book by Issachar Fater: Yidishe muzik in polyn tsvishn bayde velt-milkhomes [Jewish music in Poland between the two World Wars] (Tel-Aviv, 1970) might be a useful source, if you read Yiddish or Polish (I think he wrote it in Yiddish first, later translating to Polish) - oh heck, Google translate works wonders in these strange times. The current New Grove does not have a dedicated article but mentions him in a necrology of musicians lost in the Holocaust. All the best, and good luck! Antandrus (talk) 01:20, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

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The places: a day full of great discoveries, culminating in Oliwa Cathedral which was called a must-see by Graham Waterhouse who played the organ once. Dinner right next to the Abbot's Palace, where Penderecki had also been a guest.

The story: Bazon Brock spoke at an exhibition at Kolumba to honour Anna and Bernhard Blume on her 80th birthday. [https://bazonbrock.de/werke/detail/?id=3341] Did you know "An Anna Blume"? -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:27, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

I have Easter Oratorio on the main page, but of course told the story, which is admittedly complex, on Easter Sunday for the music's 300th anniversary. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:33, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

sang today --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:56, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

Stravinsky pictured on his birthday + Vienna pics - but too many who died + I have a "defiant" cantata up for GA --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:33, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

too many died, see my story and listen to [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hG8Zd0xLZg Comfort ye] (sung in German) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:01, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

... and today look at the autograph of Beethoven's last piano sonata and listen to a pianist who wanted to serve the compositions most of all --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:57, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

:I love that piece (who doesn't, right?) - for two hundred years composers have been trying to imitate late Beethoven and failing, but finding other things - this was one of so many works in those years that opened a door others never knew was even there. Antandrus (talk) 22:11, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

:: I love that piece. Heard last year with Igor Levit (see music). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:51, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

:: At the same place, I'll hear today's topic, - you can listen before I do because it was streamed yesterday and I go today (because I like Ravel's piano piano concerto) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:39, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

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Hi, you would note that this is not the first time this has been discussed. None of the previous discussions were open as long or received as much participation. The key issue falls to WP:THE and the second of the conditions given. While both sides invoke and argue their position based on that guidance, this does not ipso facto mean that there is strength to those arguments. Both WP:P&G and WP:5P tell us that it is the spirit of P&G which is paramount. There are certainly arguments made that go to identifying the spirit of this guidance and, if cogently made would carry substantially more weight than those that don't. This RM has in essence become an RfC in pretty much all but name on determining the spirit of the second condition in the context of a particular and very pertinent example. Identifying how the spirit applies to this particular example would go a long way to resolving how the spirit applies in other cases. It would become a counter-point to The Crown/Crown where disambiguation is reasonably an issue.

Assessing the arguments made in respect to the spirit (what is the spirit) and where the spirit lies is certainly within the remit of the closer. To be clear, this is not asking the closer to apply their own interpretation of this. It would go deeper than both sides invoke WP:THE and make arguments that [overtly appear] to be reasonable. We could have a community discussion to address the guidance but I would have no doubt that it would closely mirror this discussion - using the same examples and making the same arguments. Even if a more focused examination of this discussion was unable to extract a consensus on the spirit of the guidance, a more focused closing comment would be useful in identifying the issues relating to the guidance. That in itself would be a benefit to the community. As a long-term editor and administrator, I would think you eminently qualified for this. Without addressing the broader issue, this is unlikely to be the last time this is bought up. If there is ambiguity as to where the spirit of the guidance lies, this is arguably worese than having no guidance at all. Cinderella157 (talk) 04:26, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

:It was a no-consensus close - and as they go, rather a canonical case, as I see it. I thought about writing more in the closing comment but decided against it, because that gets into interpretation - the spirit - of a guideline that I see as ambiguous, and this case, "Holocaust" versus "The Holocaust", seems to me to be in the gray area of interpretation. You may see it differently. Both "sides" did in fact make cogent and persuasive arguments. I couldn't close it as anything but "no consensus" in good conscience. I think the right place for further discussion is on the talk page of the guideline itself, WP:THE. - Not that it matters, but I'd been following the discussion from the beginning, and my own opinion shifted from one position to the other during the debate, but I still don't feel particularly strongly either way. And yes I'm aware of previous discussions: the article has been on my watchlist for at least twenty years now. Antandrus (talk) 23:00, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

:I also disagree with this reading of consensus. The "oppose" side did not cite a {{em|single}} PAG that not merely {{em|allows}}, but {{em|recommends}}, the use of "the", and irrelevant arguments should have been discarded. I am making this formal request to amend your close before I send this to WP:MR per its prerequisites. InfiniteNexus (talk) 11:36, 22 June 2025 (UTC)