User talk:Muéro#Comma removal in connection with postnom removal

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I've seen you've improved some articles about Spain.

Because of that, I want to give you a Barnstar, the Spanish Barnstar.

Image:Barnstar Spain.png|

Javitomad (...tell me...) 17:22, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

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If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 02:43, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

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:I figured the celebrity endorsement of Luis Guzmán, and the notion that this is Cabot's first serious national ad campaign, was enough to merit its inclusion in some form. But I understand your argument and thank you for your critical analysis. Cale (talk) 05:32, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

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Thanks! --Rkitko ^(talk) 21:40, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10061/1039763-100.stm Dated 9:19 PM 3-2-2010. I believe this is earlier than the times that you posted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jasonstru (talk • contribs) 04:35, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

The article The Evening Episode has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

:No reliable sources given or found to establish notability of a musical group.

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I was wondering, if Greg could link you to some media stories regarding the WebSeries, if you could include it in the "related media" section for Zetterberg's entry. I am not sure how adding things works, so I thought I'd talk to one of the people who seems to edit redwings entries.

I would appreciate it a lot if you could contact me via e-mail. My e-mail is gpdavis@kent.edu

Thanks,

George Davis — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.191.125.171 (talk) 02:30, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 15:02, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Muéro. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or draft page you started, "Mosaic loss of chromosome Y".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply {{edit|Draft:Mosaic loss of chromosome Y|edit the submission}} and remove the {{tlc|db-afc}}, {{tlc|db-draft}}, or {{tlc|db-g13}} code.

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! Hey man im josh (talk) 14:34, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Wanted to say thank you for your service and contributions on Wikipedia especially on the The Strokes page from almost 20 years ago. I appreciate the work you do and makes my life of endlessly browsing articles so much better. :) Gretgocheese (talk) 20:34, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your contributions. Regarding your edit of Frederick Curzon, 7th Earl Howe, and similar edits removing postnoms per the new guidelines, please don't remove the comma after the parenthetical birth–death expression. It's supposed to be there per WP:COMMA: "Don't let other punctuation distract you from the need for a comma, especially when the comma collides with a bracket or parenthesis".

Thank you. HandsomeFella (talk) 15:50, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

:Ah, good catch. I can't wait for the day when nobility titles are also excluded entirely, which would make that comma unnecessary anyway. Muéro^(talk/c) 15:58, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

::Hello again.

::Thank you for your understanding. Re: your latest edits, you're now leaving a comma in place that shouldn't be there.

Nathaniel Charles Jacob Rothschild, 4th Baron Rothschild, (29 April 1936 – 26 February 2024),

^ ^ ^

A B C

::Commas A and C are paired, comma B should be removed along with the postnoms that followed it. Commas rarely precede parentheses.

::Cheers.

::HandsomeFella (talk) 17:52, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

:::I don't think that makes sense. If someone doesn't have a nobility/royalty title, there is no comma before or after the life span. When adding the nobility/royalty title, the pair of commas should go before and after the nobility/royalty title. Why, when adding the nobility/royalty title, would the life span get looped into the comma pair? Muéro^(talk/c) 17:56, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Let me take this step by step. Normally, the first sentence would be something like this:

John Doe was a Whig politician ...

Now let's add that he was a peer:

John Doe, 1st Baron Doe, was a Whig politician ...

^ ^

A B

The commas A and B are paired, i.e. the "parenthetical" title is set off at both ends (unless when there is other punctuation, like at the end of sentence). Let's see what happens without the closing (second) comma:

John Doe, 1st Baron Doe was a Whig politician ...

If the commas aren't paired, the sentence reads "1st Baron Doe was a Whig politician", and "John Doe" is left dangling at the start of the sentence.

Now, let's add the life span. Where do we add it? Before punctuation.

John Doe, 1st Baron Doe (1 January 1801 – 31 December 1881), was a Whig politician ...

^ ^

A B

The commas A and B are still paired. See?

HandsomeFella (talk) 23:04, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

:The nobility title is a nonessential appositive. Commas go before and after a nonessential appositive. I'm assuming you don't consider the lifespan, which is never set off by commas in a Wikipedia article, to be a part of the same nonessential appositive somehow, right? If it's not included in the nobility title nonessential appositive, then it goes outside the commas. Muéro^(talk/c) 00:04, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

::No, it doesn't. Sure, the lifespan parenthetical isn't part of the appositive, but neither are the commas, which is demonstrated by the fact that at, if the name and title occurred at the end of a sentence, there wouldn't be a comma; there would be a period/full stop:

... {{xt|Joseph Smith bequeathed the manor to his nephew, John Doe, 1st Baron Doe (1801–1881).}}

::You wouldn't place the parenthetical outside the sentence like this, would you?

... {{!xt|Joseph Smith bequeathed the manor to his nephew, John Doe, 1st Baron Doe. (1801–1881)}}

::Ergo: normal rules apply, which is that punctuation doesn't precede a parenthetical. (The exception being when there is a complete sentence inside the parentheses, in which case punctuation occurs both at the end of the preceding sentence, i.e. before the parenthetical, and before the closing parenthetical, as shown here.)

::Commas go before and after an appositive (unless there is other punctuation), but that does not necessarily mean immediately after.

::HandsomeFella (talk) 10:29, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

:::"Punctuation doesn't precede a parenthetical" is not a rule at all. It's just something you made up.

:::If the parenthetical were being applied to the nobility title, then the parenthetical should go within the commas that set off the nobility title. But the parenthetical is being applied to the actual name of the person, which came before the nonessential appositive that is set off by commas.

:::If you dislike the placement of the nobility title between the name and the lifespan parenthetical, I wouldn't disagree. I'd happily remove the nobility title entirely from the lead sentence (or heck, the whole article). Or put the lifespan parenthetical first, and then the nobility title. But wherever the nobility appositive is being stuck, it gets set off by commas. That's the rule. Muéro^(talk/c) 13:38, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Since it's clear we will not agree, I have copied this discussion to Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Input needed on disagreement over where the lifespan goes in relation to a baronetcy or a peerage title to get more input from the project. Let's continue there. HandsomeFella (talk) 20:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

:With almost 500 edits to go through, its borderline disruptive editing. Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 22:49, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

:I would argue that they shouldn't be in the infobox, either. At least not at the top, which is where I've been seeing them. I guess I don't believe post-nominals belong anywhere except certain specific contexts. I don't believe there is any official guideline that says post-nominals need to in the infobox, but if you can make an argument that they should be in the infobox, then I will make sure they are in the infobox. Muéro^(talk/c) 23:20, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

::That's purely your opinion and goes against everything that has been done on Wikipedia for the last twenty years and the opinions of many other editors. Particularly in the UK and Commonwealth, postnoms are commonly used and seen. You are removing valuable information. Please do not do it. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:42, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

:::Seconded. Atchom (talk) 02:40, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

:::Thirded. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 14:45, 8 April 2025 (UTC)