User talk:Novem Linguae/Scripts/SpeciesHelper#Dual Stub Removal

This is a 2 year old edit, but I just want to check - does SpeciesHelper now place {{tl|Improve categories}} immediately after categories, and above stub tags (per MOS:ORDER)? This is how I've been correcting them.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  18:51, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

:Yes, nowadays SpeciesHelper follows MOS:ORDER for category maintenance tags. Although Twinkle and PageTriage do not, so I am not sure how accurate MOS:ORDER is. Perhaps MOS:ORDER should be updated to reflect the reality that Twinkle places these below the stub tag. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:30, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

::If there's an adequate discussion in favor of what Twinkle/PT are doing (I haven't checked), then the MOS should be definitely be updated. If not, then Twinkle/PT need to updated to comply with the MOS.

::Not that this is the correct venue, but...it makes more sense for category related things to be grouped together (DEFAULTSORT>categories>improve cats), which puts {{tl|improve categories}} very close to the categories anyway (only 1-to-a-few stub tags' height away, which I think is fine).   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  21:19, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't think removing {{tl|Authority control}} from pages with {{tl|Taxonbar}} is a good idea. Is there consensus for that somewhere? There is very little overlap, if any, between AC IDs and Taxonbar IDs. I don't have any diffs to share/examine; I just read about this now under SpeciesHelper#Features.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  18:58, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

:I came to the same conclusion about 3 months ago and released a patch to have SpeciesHelper stop doing this. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Novem_Linguae/Scripts/SpeciesHelper.js&diff=prev&oldid=1178695614 Diff.] Shouldn't be an issue going forward. I'll update the documentation. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:21, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

SpeciesHelper likes to remove {{tl|Plant-disease-stub}}. You can see an example here [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Urocystis_primulae&diff=prev&oldid=1223456345 1]. Any chance we can bypass removing that stub template? Seems like a useful template and counterproductive to remove. -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 07:31, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

:Same thing happens with {{tl|paleo-gastropod-stub}}. I think it only likes to keep one stub template at a time? -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 07:41, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

::{{Done}}. If one of those two are present, it will now skip stub fixes entirely. –Novem Linguae (talk) 09:59, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

In the features section, it says SpeciesHelper {{tq|will remove empty {{DEFAULTSORT}}}}. I have noticed it will try to eliminate a filled in {{DEFAULTSORT}}. Example, if you run species helper on Tanychlamys indica. I suspect it is because the template reads as empty when it reads {{DEFAULTSORT:Genus species}}, however it skips trying to remove it when it is {{DEFAULTSORT:Species, Genus}}. I think the comma is important for some reason.

I started a conversation on the template talk page on the correct way for it to be used on species articles.

From my encounters many Wiki species articles seem to overlook DEFAULTSORT. Do you think it is useful on species pages?

If you concur with the response there that {{DEFAULTSORT:Species, Genus}} could potentially the more useful orientation, would it make sense for SpeciesHelper to correct the cases when it is oriented {{DEFAULTSORT:Genus species}} and insert it where it is missing? -- 17:44, 13 May 2024 (UTC) Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 17:44, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Striking based on the conversation.

New query: Can we make it so that SpeciesHelper removes {{DEFAULTSORT:Species, Genus}} when the species article is titled in its scientific name? Additionally, if a Category:Genus is active, is it possible to get SpeciesHelper format the category so that it becomes Species (if it already does not do that). -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 20:03, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

:In reference to the Tanychlamys indica example: After reading the code, it looks like there is code that will remove {{DEFAULTSORT}}s identical to the title (case insensitive). I have gone ahead and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Novem_Linguae/Scripts/SpeciesHelper&diff=prev&oldid=1223764831 added this to the documentation]. With that in mind, are you still requesting changes to the defaultsort algorithm? If so can you provide more diffs/examples to help me wrap my head around it? –Novem Linguae (talk) 06:05, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

::@Novem Linguae, apologies for the delayed response.

::I ran a quick experiment at Alnus firma to test my query if you want to look at the history.

::Lets say Category:Genus exists, like it does for :Category:Alnus.

::Scenario 1: When visiting a species page of the Alnus genera, like Alnus firma, SpeciesHelper will automatically add the genus category in the Species format, when the genus category is missing ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alnus_firma&diff=next&oldid=1225379743 diff example here]).

::Scenario 2: However, if the genus category (Category:Genus) is present in a species article, SpeciesHelper will not add the species to category. It fails to add the sort key. Running SpeciesHelper on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alnus_firma&diff=prev&oldid=1225379212 this version of Alnus firma], did not change Category:Alnus to firma.

::Request: If a Category:Genus is present (tagged) on a species article, is it possible to get SpeciesHelper format the category so that it becomes Species.

::Hope that is a clear example? Let me know if what I am requesting is still confusing. --Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 02:37, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

I just ran SpeciesHelper on Appalachia arcana, and it tried to add the article to {{cat|Appalachia}} and {{tl|Appalachia-stub}}. Those are about the region instead of the genus. Is there a way for SpeciesHelper to understand this? jlwoodwa (talk) 11:34, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

:That's a very unusual situation. {{Fixed}}. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Appalachia_arcana&diff=prev&oldid=1240452539 Diff.] Thanks for reporting. –Novem Linguae (talk) 12:28, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

{{Tracked in|https://github.com/NovemLinguae/UserScripts/issues/221}}

{{Tracked in|https://github.com/NovemLinguae/UserScripts/issues/220}}

...like [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Qianjiangsaurus&diff=prev&oldid=1242506531 here]. NotAGenious (talk) 05:10, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

:@NotAGenious. Good suggestion, thanks, I'll make a ticket. By the way, SpeciesHelper probably shouldn't be run on genus articles at all, just species articles. –Novem Linguae (talk) 15:59, 27 August 2024 (UTC)