User talk:S.A. Julio/Footballer categories

examples

{{ping|S.A. Julio}} Hi. —usernamekiran (talk) 15:19, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

I got the basic idea of

Category:Footballers in by club
Category:Men's footballers in by club
You don't have to create a list of all the categories :-) two examples of all the types/scenario would be enough. If I have some doubt, I will ask you. —usernamekiran (talk) 15:19, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

:{{re|usernamekiran}} Alright, I've now added other examples as well. S.A. Julio (talk) 16:18, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

::{{re|S.A. Julio}} Hi. I'm currently on mobile, and have couple of doubts. I will be on computer in 15ish hours, and I will let you know if I still have doubts. —usernamekiran (talk) 16:35, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

:::Alright, thanks. S.A. Julio (talk) 00:36, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

:::{{re|usernamekiran}} Any update on whether this would be possible? S.A. Julio (talk) 22:41, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

::::{{re|S.A. Julio}} Hi. I apologise, but I am still not sure what exactly needs to be done. I also apologise for you having to do so much work. Would you please do only 5 to 10 edits manually that need to be done by the bot? Sorry again. —usernamekiran (talk) 12:17, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

:::: I need to see the diffs only, if the edits are already done in the past, that would be okay too. —usernamekiran (talk) 12:19, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

:::::{{re|usernamekiran}} Alright, I have updated the page with examples from the already-completed Denmark categories. Let me know if this makes more sense. Thanks, S.A. Julio (talk) 20:47, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

{{ping|S.A. Julio}} Hi. We are updating "{{c|Footballers in England by club}}" → "Men's footballers in England by club". But do we want to update its subcategory {{c|Abbey Hey F.C. players‎}} as well? Currently, the structure is as follows, do we want to update all the categories up to {{c|Footballers from Acton, London}} as well? Where do/should we stop? —usernamekiran (talk) 12:53, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
:Category:Footballers in England
:Category:English footballers‎
:Category:Footballers by city or town in England‎
:Category:Footballers from Barnsley‎ (no subcats)
:Category:Footballers from Greater London‎ (subcat of "by city or town in England‎", like Barnsley)
:Category:Footballers from London by locality‎
:Category:Footballers from Acton, London‎

{{re|usernamekiran}} Do you mean should {{cat|Abbey Hey F.C. players}} (a) be moved to "Men's footballers in England by club" or (b) be subdivided as well? Because it would be yes to the first question, and no to the second. There are up to five types of categories that need to be split per country. Using England as an example, the only categories needing changing are: (1) {{c|Footballers in England}} to "Men's footballers in England", (2) {{c|English footballers}} to "English men's footballers", (3) {{c|English expatriate footballers}} to "English expatriate men's footballers", (4) {{c|Expatriate footballers in England}} to "Expatriate men's footballers in England", (5) {{c|Footballers in England by club}} to "Men's footballers in England by club". S.A. Julio (talk) 15:33, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
:{{re|S.A. Julio}} Thank you. Yes, I was asking about moving. I thought the new category would be "Men's Abbey Hey F.C. players‎", or something like that. There are 282 pages in :Category:Footballers from Greater London‎, are we supposed to move these ~282 articles to "Men's footballers from Greater London"? Do we want to do this to all the subcategories, until there are none? —usernamekiran (talk) 16:06, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
::{{re|usernamekiran}} Yeah, club categories are based on the article title, and we usually have separate pages for men's/women's teams (e.g. Arsenal F.C./Arsenal W.F.C. and {{cat|Arsenal F.C. players}}/{{cat|Arsenal W.F.C. players}}), so nothing needs to change with the category title. No other types of category, such as by city, need to be divided either, just aforementioned five category trees. S.A. Julio (talk) 21:04, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

{{ping|S.A. Julio}} Hi. I have created a program that would go through first categories of {{c|Association football players by country}}, and add "Men's" in front of all categories, and then it will de-capitalise the "F" of "Footballers". For example, it will go through "Footballers in Afghanistan‎", "Footballers in Albania‎", and all the categories, then it will update the articles to "Men's footballers in Afghanistan‎". Like [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:KiranBOT/sandbox4&diff=prev&oldid=1153292541 in this edit] (kindly disregard the edit summary. For now, the program will exclude "Men's association football players by country‎", "Women's association football players by country‎", "Association football players by country and competition‎", and "LGBT association football players by country‎" (these are hard-coded exceptions). I have also added exception for the articles that contain categories with "Women" in it. It also updates "Soccer players in Australia‎" → "Men's soccer players in Australia". This is what you are expecting, right? The program will also create the new Men's category if does not exist. eg: "Category:Men's footballers in Afghanistan". What should be the content of newly created category? Let me know if I got that wrong, or if there are any suggestions. —usernamekiran (talk) 11:47, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
:{{re|Usernamekiran}} Sounds good, also worth mentioning that New Zealand, Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland all use "association footballers". In addition, the "Men's footballers in " categories will typically only be populated with the other types of categories you are creating (see for example the first 4 subcategories of {{cat|Men's footballers in Denmark}}), so not many pages will need to be moved from "footballers in" to "men's footballers in". Therefore once these are created, it should be followed up shortly after with the creation of other categories, such as the men's nationality, otherwise they may be tagged for speedy deletion as empty. As for the contents of these "Footballers in" categories, see below for an example. S.A. Julio (talk) 14:18, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

+Men

::{{re|S.A. Julio}} Thanks. What is the smallest category that you can think of (in "Category:Association football players by country")? We can take it as an example, and create a code/program for all the scenarios/various combinations. I haven't gone through a lot of categories, but how about {{c|Footballers in Dominica‎}}? Can you give an example of the category when you said "categories such as the men's nationality"? I think I can create the code which would create the nationality category as next step. —usernamekiran (talk) 15:06, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

:{{re|Usernamekiran}} Sure, I'll base this off the contents of {{cat|Footballers in Dominica}}. Once {{cat|Men's footballers in Dominica}} is created, it should have only two subcategories: {{cat|Men's footballers in Dominica by club}} and {{cat|Dominica men's footballers}}. Therefore, {{cat|Men's footballers in Dominica}} will not be populated until the two aforementioned subcategories are also created. S.A. Julio (talk) 15:38, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

::{{re|S.A. Julio}} Also, what should be categories like {{c|Footballers in the Isle of Man‎}} should be renamed to? "Men's footballers in the Isle of Man‎"? And what should be their content "+Men", and "Isle of Man"? or should "Isle of Man" be prefixed with "the"? —usernamekiran (talk) 15:40, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

::I created User:Usernamekiran/footballer categories, would you kindly edit it accordingly? Meanwhile, I will go through {{c|Category:Footballers in Denmark}} thoroughly. —usernamekiran (talk) 16:06, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

:::{{re|Usernamekiran}} I've updated that page now. As for the Isle of Man, the title is correct, and it should not be prefixed with "the". Also, if you want a full list of nationality categories to split, see User:S.A. Julio/Footballer categories/Tree#Nationality. S.A. Julio (talk) 16:55, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

::::{{re|S.A. Julio}} Thanks a lot! Just one request for a couple of days: would you please go through all the subcats of following Afghan tree, and update User:Usernamekiran/footballer categories again, with the "desired change", "skip", and "no change"? (I have also added the categories on my userpage) —usernamekiran (talk) 17:30, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Select [►] to view subcategories

Footballers in Afghanistan

{{ping|usernamekiran}} For the sake of clarity, I just added the full list of categories needing to be created on your userpage. No other categories than just the ones I listed need to be modified. Hopefully this should make things somewhat simpler. S.A. Julio (talk) 03:59, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

::{{re|S.A. Julio}} That was really very grand of you. I apologise, you had to go through a lot of trouble because of me. Yesterday, I realised you are a template editor, so I have technical question for you: if old_category = Footballers in Dominica, and new_category = Men's footballers in Dominica, then would it be okay if we create new category (Men's footballers in Dominica) with content Men? This would add the content as Men, but would this method be okay, or would it cause any undesired edits/combination with some titles? —usernamekiran (talk) 09:58, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

:::{{re|Usernamekiran}} That would work, but the new category should also contain {{cat|Men's association football players by country}}. S.A. Julio (talk) 11:34, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

::::{{re|Usernamekiran}} I did some tests in my userspace for a simple way to generate the correct code for creating every category. All you have to do is enter the following text when creating a category: {{subst:User:S.A. Julio/Fbcat}}. For example, paste the code into {{cat|Men's footballers in Germany}} or {{cat|Men's soccer players in the United States by club}} and click "show changes". Would this be useful at all? S.A. Julio (talk) 12:46, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

:::::{{re|S.A. Julio}} thanks again, I had finished with the program for "Category format: ` footballers`" a few hours ago. The only remaining thing was a regex related to "the" from a country's name. I couldn't remember if we wanted to keep or exclude "the", so I had kept that issue pending. I will use your code. Again, thanks a lot, I feel like putting too much burden/workload on you. I had used a very simplistic/minimal, but very effective method to capture the country's name. Thanks again —usernamekiran (talk) 13:12, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

::::::{{re|Usernamekiran}} It's no problem, recently I've had to go through many categories anyways to fix unrelated issues, so I've become somewhat efficient. Regarding category sortkeys, "the" should be excluded. S.A. Julio (talk) 13:24, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

::::::{{re|Usernamekiran}} One other thing to note, some of the club player categories have their categories generated by Template:Clubplayerscat. For example, see the wikitext of {{cat|Juventus F.C. players}}: via the aforementioned template, it is categorized within {{cat|Footballers in Italy by club}}. Therefore, to move the Juventus category to "Men's footballers in Italy by club", the code of this template has to be changed to use "Men's". S.A. Julio (talk) 22:18, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

category contents

{{re|S.A. Julio}} (continuing the discussion from the thread above) I couldn't find "Category:Juventus F.C. players" on User:Usernamekiran/footballer categories, so I am not sure what it has do with our moves. But if you want to update "Category:Juventus F.C. players" as well, and if we are running a bot to create new categories for men, then wouldn't it be better to create the new categories without transclusion (maybe adding the original categories, or substituting them like User:S.A. Julio/Fbcat)?{{pb}}Regarding "Footballers in by club" I can easily create a I can easily create a code to capture country from the older category, and add it to new category's body as +Men. For example, "Category:Footballers in Italy by club" will be moved to "Category:Men's footballers in Italy by club", and it will have the three new categories in content including +Men{{pb}}Regarding "Category:Juventus F.C. players", if you want to move them as well, I can create a program that create the new category by adding "Men's" as prefix to the older category - "Men's Juventus F.C. players", and create content by removing the "players" from old category's name, ("Category:Juventus F.C." or "Category:Men's Juventus F.C."), the second category can be created by reading the parameter from "Clubplayerscat|Italy", "Men's footballers in Italy by club" or "Footballers in Italy by club" (whatever we need it to be). According [https://templatecount.toolforge.org/index.php?lang=en&namespace=10&name=Clubplayerscat#bottom to this,] the template is transcluded on around 4,499 pages. —usernamekiran (talk) 10:57, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

:{{re|Usernamekiran}} Sorry if I was not clear, the Juventus category does not need to be moved, I mentioned it because it is a member of {{cat|Footballers in Italy by club}}. As listed on User:Usernamekiran/footballer categories, the contents of "Footballers in Italy by club" are to be moved by the bot to "Men's footballers in Italy by club". However, a bot will not be able to perform this category change to the Juventus page, as its categories are not included in the wikitext, but rather are generated through a template. So a change to the template will need to be made once "Men's footballers in Italy by club" is created. I can make this template change, just thought I would let you know before the bot runs. S.A. Julio (talk) 11:58, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

::{{re|S.A. Julio}} yes, that's what I was saying, I can create a bot to convert the template into categories, but without moving the categories, this would be WP:COSMETICBOT. In case we want to move the categories, then the bot can read the country parameter from Clubplayerscat, and create the categories accordingly instead of using Clubplayerscat template. —usernamekiran (talk) 12:07, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

:::{{re|Usernamekiran}} I don't think the template necessarily needs to be replaced, it seems to be a useful way to format the pages. The template code just needs to be updated once the bot starts creating the "Men's footballers in by club" categories. S.A. Julio (talk) 13:05, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

::::{{re|S.A. Julio}} oh, okay. no issues there. —usernamekiran (talk) 13:28, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

{{re|S.A. Julio}} Hi. When creating the category "Expatriate men's association footballers in the Republic of Ireland", what should its content be?





{{CatAutoTOC}}
+Men
Category:Men's footballers in the Republic of Ireland
the Republic of Ireland

I am not sure if the content above is correct. —usernamekiran (talk) 10:31, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

:{{re|usernamekiran}} The sort key for the third category should omit "the". Also note that the title of the first two categories should use "association footballers". S.A. Julio (talk) 17:06, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

{{re|S.A. Julio}} Hi. But the details at User:Usernamekiran/footballer categories#Expatriate footballers in says (which I followed) the following format should be used:

+Men

Category:Men's footballers in

Should we use "Expatriate footballers in " or "Expatriate association footballers in "? (same Q for "Men's footballers in " vs "Men's association footballers in ") —usernamekiran (talk) 11:47, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

:I apologise for the confusion. We want "association footballers" in category content if the original category has it as well, correct? —usernamekiran (talk) 14:46, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

::Correct, "footballers" should be substituted with "association footballers" for Ireland, Irish Free State, Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland and New Zealand, while it should be substituted with "soccer players" for Australia, Canada, South Africa, United States and United States Virgin Islands. S.A. Julio (talk) 17:13, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

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