User talk:Silverfish2024

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Happy editing! :Jay8g [V•T•E] 20:25, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

File:Control copyright icon.svg Hello Silverfish2024! Your additions to :Historical reliability of the Gospels have been removed in whole or in part, as they appear to have added copyrighted content without evidence that the source material is in the public domain or has been released by its owner or legal agent under a suitably free and compatible copyright license. (To request such a release, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission.) While we appreciate your contributions to Wikipedia, it's important to understand and adhere to guidelines about using information from sources to prevent copyright and plagiarism issues. Here are the key points:

• Limited quotation: You may only copy or translate a small portion of a source. Any direct quotations must be enclosed in double quotation marks (") and properly cited using an inline citation. More information is available on the non-free content page. To learn how to cite a source, see Help:Referencing for beginners. {{#ifeq: | 1 |}}
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It's very important that contributors understand and follow these practices. Persistent failure to comply may result in being blocked from editing. If you have any questions or need further clarification, please ask them here on this page, or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. — Diannaa (talk) 23:20, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:Thank you for graciously explaining why you removed my post! As a new editor I admit I am not as familiar with Wikipedia and its procedures as I should be. I am confused as to why my edit violated copyright rules, as the exact same passage I entered in this page has been present for a substantial amount of time in the page Oral gospel traditions - Wikipedia. Also as far as I understand, many parts of Wikipedia are sourced by books not available for public viewing without purchase, so I do not see what the problem is here. Silverfish2024 (talk) 01:04, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

::I will look into this in the morning. — Diannaa (talk) 02:36, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

::The online source where I found the content is dated January 2019, but it's been in Oral gospel traditions since December 2013. So we had it first. What you need to do when copying from one article to another is to mention in your edit summary where you got the prose from. In fact such attribution is required under the terms of our license. Please see WP:copying within Wikipedia for more information on this topic. Sorry for the mistake. — Diannaa (talk) 09:22, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

:::No problem! I will try my best to acknowledge whenever I copy from one Wikipedia article to another. Silverfish2024 (talk) 15:39, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

File:Information.svg Hello, I'm Joshua Jonathan. Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view. Your recent edit to :Gospel seemed less than neutral and has been removed. If you think this was a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 04:22, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

:Thank you for your input on this matter. The historicity of the Gospels is indeed of immense weight to many people religious or not worldwide, and it is difficult for many to set aside prior commitments. However, my recent edit, specifically Evans' quote, which has been present in other pages on Wikipedia for a significant amount of time, does not seem to me problematic. Sanders and Borg are mainstream scholars associated with renowned universities, and Evans' work has also received praise from both Evangelical and mainline scholars such as Charlesworth and Theissen. I also referred to more skeptical scholars as well. I understand your concerns and am grateful for your transparency, but I do not believe this removal was justifiable. Silverfish2024 (talk) 14:40, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

:I have also noticed that you reverted my edit regarding Charles Gieschen's reception of Bart Ehrman's How Jesus Became God. I cannot imagine how this edit could be considered undue or fringe in any way, especially considering that Ehrman himself found it fitting to use Gieschen's work. Gieschen's view is undoubtedly worth noting. Silverfish2024 (talk) 15:17, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

::Regarding :Gospel, citing Craig, a conservative scholar, from a publication from 1993 stating "are now viewed as useful" is misleading, to say the least; that'so in the body of the article, and even more so in the lead.

::Regarding Gieschen, Ehrman refers to his work three times; it is undue to mention Gieschen's response in a section on the overall reception of the book. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 17:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

:::Do you dispute Evans's description of the state of the field? He does not cite overly conservative scholars there. I am not the first to either have a high appraisal of Evans or to cite him on this wiki.

:::As for Gieschen, I think Ehrman says he received his view of Christ as an angel from Gieschen and later Susan Garrett. He even blogged about it. I do not think it is prudent to downplay his work or opinions. Silverfish2024 (talk) 18:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

::::1993 is not "now." Have you edited before using another account? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 19:09, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

:::::No, this is my only account. I have only started editing Wikipedia this week. Are you saying I Silverfish2024 (talk) 19:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

::::::was the one who cited Evans in note 2 of Historical Reliability of the Gospels? Silverfish2024 (talk) 19:16, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

:::::I have seen Wikipedia use many sources older than 1993, and I don't think the Biblical studies field has changed enough, even with the developments you and I mentioned, that Evans' claim is now outdated, as far as I know. Silverfish2024 (talk) 19:18, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

File:Information.svg Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions, such as the edit(s) you made to :Historical reliability of the Gospels, did not appear to be constructive and have been reverted. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at our welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make test edits, please use your sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 04:47, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

File:Information orange.svg Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did at :Oriental Orthodox Churches, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear to be constructive and has been reverted. If you only meant to make a test edit, please use your sandbox for that. Thank you. Mellk (talk) 18:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

:I am very sorry for my mistake. I had no intention of blanking anything in the page Oriental Orthodox Churches, and I thank you graciously for fixing this edit (I was trying to revert it myself). Silverfish2024 (talk) 18:15, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

::Thanks for clarifying. Mellk (talk) 18:16, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

An automated process has detected that you recently added links to disambiguation pages.

:Gospel of Mark

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Your edits have repeatedly proved controversial. While this is not inherently a problem, you have a tendency to reinsert BOLDly added content without a consensus supporting reinsertion. Consider this a formal warning against that sort of behavior. You have recently made an opponent of Achar Sva. While they have an editing restriction that is meant to prevent them from removing sourced content from articles, you should not automatically revert their edits or exploit this restriction. Seek consensus and consider a more tactful approach. ~ Pbritti (talk) 04:56, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

:Your concerns are noted. I will consider my actions more in the future, though I do not agree with everything. I think calling Achar Sva an 'opponent' may be too strong; we have already had talks that have been somewhat fruitful and agree on some things. Thank you for your input. I appreciate it. Silverfish2024 (talk) 23:02, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

::I agree - calling me an opponent is much too strong :) Achar Sva (talk) 05:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

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File:Information.svg Welcome to Wikipedia. Unfortunately, content you added to :New Testament appears to be a minority or fringe viewpoint, and appears to have given undue weight to this minority viewpoint, and has been reverted. To maintain a neutral point of view, an idea that is not broadly supported by scholarship in its field must not be given undue weight in an article about a mainstream idea. Feel free to use the article's talk page to discuss this, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. tgeorgescu (talk) 06:18, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

File:Information icon4.svg There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. tgeorgescu (talk) 20:48, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

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Very impressive material you have in regards to the New Testament and I really like the work you've been doing on the New Testament page. However, I think with your recent edit, particularly about Bernier and his reception, reads a bit too much like an advertisement for his work, which could warrant this and other edits in this style being deemed WP:UNDUE considering early dating is still a minority position. I don't have access to the sources themselves, so I thought that maybe you could re-word this particular edit so its better broken down, such as "recent arguments by Bernier for early dating have been met with positive reception." Divus303 (talk) 13:09, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

:I am glad that you enjoy my contributions to the New Testament page. Your appreciation means a lot to me. I largely agree with your constructive critique and will try to tone down my description a bit. For reference, this is the original quote I was paraphrasing:

:{{talkquote|The advanced press for Rethinking the Dates is enthusiastic, with glowing reviews by Chris Keith and Anders Runesson, among others, listed...}}{{cite journal |last= Gabrielson |first= Timothy |title= Jonathan Bernier. Rethinking the Dates of the New Testament: The Evidence for Early Composition (Book Review) |journal= Bulletin for Biblical Research |year= 2024 |volume= 34 |issue= 1 |page= 118-121 |doi= 10.5325/bullbiblrese.34.1.0118}}

:In this particular situation I also do not have immediate access to the whole review. I have access to a lot of publications right now, but the Bulletin for Biblical Research is sadly not one of them. Silverfish2024 (talk) 15:11, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks for the quote, and yeah I definitely think its better to break the paraphrase down to "Bernier has made recent arguments... this has received positive reception." Divus303 (talk) 15:17, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

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As to be expected, the undue emphasis on Loke at :Christology, without naming him explicitly, is your work. I'm becoming fed-up by your sneaky pov-pushing, which looks more like apologetics than like building an encyclopedia, having reached the point were I automatically presume that your edits need to be checked. Pinging Drmies to inform an admin who's note your behaviour before too. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 05:09, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:I assure you that most if not all of my edits have been clearly and reliably sourced. If anyone has specific objections to an edit I made it should have been clearly articulated before. I joined Wikipedia in 2024 and certainly did not add Andrew Loke's work to the page Christology. I haven't checked who intially put his work in, but [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Christology&oldid=906553870 this version] from 2019 already has Loke cited several times. Please do noot cast WP:Aspersions about me. Silverfish2024 (talk) 05:19, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

::You put Loke in the lead [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Christology&diff=1254634408&oldid=1254443771 diff], referring to him as "there are scholars now who." Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:15, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:::"Some 'Early High Christology' proponents scholars argue that this "High Christology" may go back to Jesus himself." This is from the 2019 version. Hurtado was cited for that claim too, not just Loke. I am not the editor who was the first to claim multiple scholars supported the contention claims of divinity go back to Jesus. Silverfish2024 (talk) 06:20, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

::::That sentence is not in the article anymore. You also put Brant Pitre in the lead, with the comment "particularly well received, obtaining the endorsement of noted scholars Dale C. Allison Jr., Chris Tilling, Tucker Ferda, and Christine Jacobi." I guess that comes from the promo-blurb of the book? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:32, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::"promo-blurb"

:::::Do you mean the scholarly endorsements? Silverfish2024 (talk) 06:35, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::Yes. Typically something we don't rely on. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:36, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Why not? It's published by a reliable source using legitimate scholars. It fits the bill with WP:RS as I can see. The rules even allow non-academic sources to be used for scholarly issues. Silverfish2024 (talk) 06:41, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Nope. Endorsements quoted by the publisher in the publication are not acceptable. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 08:11, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::Do you have an explicit citation from the Wkipedia policies or guidelines? Silverfish2024 (talk) 12:47, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

I don't know who the IP was who made [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Christology&diff=prev&oldid=1273510145 this edit] but I fully endorse it. I cannot agree with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Christology&diff=1254634408&oldid=1254443771 this edit], for a number of reasons, the first being that something inserted into the lead needs to be more carefully edited. Second, the claim by Ludemann (whose citation doesn't even have page numbers)--yeah, sure, there's a writer with some authority, but dating that as "there was a consensus as of 2007" is really not, well it's not good writing and it's not correct. The man isn't dating his own observation in that way. The book by Loke, The Origin of Divine Christology, is one thing, but adding a citation from a website (by the same person) doesn't strengthen the claim of "there are scholars now". I cannot see the citation for "Most scholars now argue" but I have no choice but to take that with a grain of salt, because for all of Bart D. Ehrman's erudition he's one scholar, and that's just not enough to verify such a broad supposed consensus. Finally, yes, User:Joshua Jonathan is correct, we shouldn't cite blurbs. WP:BLURB should point there, and I know it's there somewhere; it's a matter I dealt with myself years ago, and my argument is supported in part by the fact that I have written a blurb or two and I know the value of them. For starters, blurbs are not peer-reviewed, though often written by peers. WP:HEADLINES, though perhaps sideways, is relevant here as well. Drmies (talk) 16:05, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:Thank you for your input. I was copying and pasting stuff from other parts of the article that had been around for a long time (besides the Pitre claim), so I did not realize there were issues with these citations.

:My understanding is that most things that are written by qualified scholars can be cited on Wikipedia. I read WP:SPS and it looks like self-published sources are acceptable if they are written by an established subject-matter expert, which the scholars I listed should meet. Perhaps blurbs should be handled on a case-by-case basis?

:WP:BLURB does not point to any links, at least for me. I think opening a discussion on the Reliable sources noticeboard could be useful and provide a resource for future instances. Silverfish2024 (talk) 18:44, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

::Of course BLURB doesn't point anywhere (yet), that was exactly my point. SPS may be acceptable, but on a case by case basis, and I don't see how that applies here. Blurbs have nothing to do with that; blurbs are written by people with Big Names on request, typically the request of the publisher. No, those blurbs are simply not acceptable. You can take that to RSN, if you like; good luck. Drmies (talk) 02:31, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

File:Information.svg Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions, such as the edit(s) you made to :Christology, did not appear to be constructive and have been reverted. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at our welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make test edits, please use your sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Regarding [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Christology&diff=1273728705&oldid=1273645930 this edit], edit-summary "This claim lacks an exact citation, as Drmies notes," there's a quote given: "the broad consensus of modern New Testament scholars that the proclamation of Jesus's exalted nature was in large measure the creation of the earliest Christian communities." See WP:DONTGETIT. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 21:28, 3 February 2025 (UTC) Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 21:28, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:The issue is that no page number was given, so it apparently isn't verified yet. Silverfish2024 (talk) 21:29, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:"(whose citation doesn't even have page numbers)" I was going off of that. Silverfish2024 (talk) 21:29, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

::WP:NOTHERE. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 21:31, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

File:Information orange.svg Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at :Christology. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively, you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continued disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. I just warned you for removing the Ludemann-info, and now you remove it again, witht he edit-summary "Removed unverified/failed verification claims from Loke and Hurtado" [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Christology&diff=prev&oldid=1273753045 diff]. Please self-revert. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 21:33, 3 February 2025 (UTC) Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 21:33, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:And the quote is very easy to verify: Lord Jesus Christ: Devotion to Jesus in Earliest Christianity, p.5. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 21:37, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

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