WP:Articles for deletion/Sharon Rich

:{{la|Sharon Rich}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Sharon_Rich Stats])

:{{la|Jeanette MacDonald Autobiography}}

:{{la|Jeanette MacDonald: The Irving Stone Letters}}

:{{la|Nelson Eddy: The Opera Years}}

:{{la|Mac/Eddy Today}}

:({{Find sources AFD|Sharon Rich}})

This is a WP:Walled garden of articles about Sharon Rich and her works on Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy. For only one of Rich's works, Sweethearts (book), have I been able to find any third-party coverage at all. All the others, created and/or heavily edited by User:Maceddy, only cite primary sources, with a promotional undertone, with no improvement for years. No indication of notability for Rich herself or any of her works beyond Sweethearts. Huon (talk) 17:42, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

:Delete all I was able to dig a little bit on Rich and Sweethearts through the LA Times:

:*[http://articles.latimes.com/1995-03-01/news/ls-37503_1_jeanette-macdonald MacDonald-Eddy: Stoking the Passions of New Fans]

:*[http://articles.latimes.com/1995-02-02/news/vl-26999_1_author-sharon-rich Biography Takes New Look at Famous Duo : Author Sharon Rich tells of longtime love affair between Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy.]

:*[https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/sharon-rich/sweethearts/ Kirkus Review]

:Two of these already appear on the Sweethearts (book) article. The first one is very substantive, but is mostly about the book and its development. That said, sources are generally sparse. Her name does not appear on [http://theknightshospitallers.org/ the Knights Hospitallers website] and I cannot confirm her Order of Malta award either. I don't see enough here for a biography, nor is there sufficient coverage of the other works. I, JethroBT ^{drop me a line} 19:49, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

• Merge and redirect all to Sweethearts: The Timeless Love Affair Onscreen and Off Between Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy. Stuartyeates (talk) 02:29, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:04, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:04, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:04, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.

  1. {{cite news |last=Turner |first=Patricia C. |date=1993-10-18 |title=Hearing Their Love Call |url=http://docs.newsbank.com/s/InfoWeb/aggdocs/AWNB/12247739E56EF648/BBC7CC9A7BC74947BFA63E13740F57F3 |newspaper=The Star-Ledger |accessdate=2015-01-07 |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/6VOZgrxOr |archivedate=2015-01-07 }}

     The article notes:

     Now, almost 60 years later, Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy are alive and vibrant, at least in the hearts of those who pay $40 a year to belong to the Mac/Eddy Club, which is based at 101 Cedar Lane, Teaneck. There are 2,800 of these people, according to Sharon Rich, the Teaneck resident whose home serves as headquarters even as she serves as president.

     Rich co-founded the organization in 1977 with Diane Goodrich of New York City.

     ...

     Rich, for instance, is 39 years old; the vice president of Mac/Eddy is 34 - "youngsters," she called them.

     Rich's introduction to the subject is unusual.

     Growing up in a suburb of Los Angeles, she and others from her high school honor society did volunteer work at the Motion Picture Home.

     She was assigned to assist Jeanette MacDonald's older sister, Blossom Rock, in a play the home was putting on. Rock had suffered a stroke.

     "We became friends and hit it off," Rich said of Rock, a character actor from the 1930s under her stage name Marie Blake, and the grandmother to the Addams Family in the 1960s under her own name.

     ...

     Years later, Rich would complete a biography of the two movie idols, and the affair they had "on and off for 30 years."

  2. {{cite news |last=Yampert |first=Rick de |date=2004-05-21 |title=Author claims to reveal 'Hollywood's biggest cover-up' |url=http://docs.newsbank.com/s/InfoWeb/aggdocs/AWNB/102BC56274C30318/BBC7CC9A7BC74947BFA63E13740F57F3 |newspaper=The Daytona Beach News-Journal |accessdate=2015-01-07 |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/6VOaaApQ1 |archivedate=2015-01-07 }}

     The article notes:

     Rich was a fledgling 16-year-old writer in her native Woodland Hills, in the Los Angeles area, when she met MacDonald's sister Blossom Rock, who had portrayed Grandmama in the TV show "The Addams Family." Rich had never heard of Jeanette MacDonald or Nelson Eddy.

     "When I learned from Blossom there had been a romance between Jeanette and Nelson, it meant nothing to me," Rich says. That is, until she "started reading in the film history books that they hated each other off-screen. I asked Blossom, 'Why are you telling me one thing and the books say

     something else?' When she started telling me the story, I realized this is one of Hollywood's biggest cover-ups, and one of its most tragic cover-ups."

     When Rich decided to plunge ahead and write a book about the affair, she met resistance. Eddy's widow, Ann, and MacDonald's widower, Gene Raymond, were still alive but wouldn't discuss the adulterous romance between their famous spouses. In fact, Rich says, Ann Eddy and Raymond "went overboard trying to keep the story suppressed." Was pursuing the book "harsh on them?" Rich asks herself. "I imagine so." But, she adds, she knew "the story was true" and "they were public figures."

     ...

     "Sweethearts," which was published in 1994 and updated for a new edition in 2001, includes 56 pages of documentation detailing Rich's sources, which included love letters, diaries, FBI records, personal interviews and unpublished memoirs.

     In the new edition's preface, Rich writes: "There are many people who were friends and still vehemently deny any relationship - because Jeanette and/or Nelson themselves never spoke of it to them or denied it themselves."

  3. {{cite news |last=Bawden |first=Jim |date=1996-05-17 |title=Screen lovebirds took roles to heart |url=http://docs.newsbank.com/s/InfoWeb/aggdocs/AWNB/10BBF415CB0797D8/BBC7CC9A7BC74947BFA63E13740F57F3 |newspaper=Toronto Star |accessdate=2015-01-07 |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/6VOalzMId |archivedate=2015-01-07 }}

     The article notes:

     Rich is a New York writer who was editing an opera magazine when she get hooked on the "MacEddy" movies. "I became friends with Jeanette's sister, Blossom Rock, who told me about their clandestine love affair. Both of them had married other people and because it was the 1930s any scandal would have wrecked their careers. Jeanette's image was very much that of a lady. They went on loving each other to the day Jeanette died."

     Rich was able to obtain letters Nelson had written Jeanette revealing all but says "the reaction of some fans was furious. The British chapter threatened to picket me if I came to their convention. But others are relieved the truth is finally out. Nelson was quite a womanizer and Jeanette finally had had enough and married actor Gene Raymond for stability.

     "That didn't stop her from caring for Nelson. It's just like in their movies when they sing 'Indian Love Call,' isn't it?"

  4. {{cite news |last=Brozan |first=Nadine |date=1995-02-17 |title=Chronicle |url=http://www.nytimes.com/1995/02/17/style/chronicle-544895.html |newspaper=The New York Times |accessdate=2015-01-07 |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/6VObE6P2u |archivedate=2015-01-07 }}

     The article notes:

     SHARON RICH, the author of three books about Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy, will be making a pilgrimage to Washington next Friday on behalf of the two crooners, who appeared together in eight films.

     It's not fair, Ms. Rich said, that the movie stars' likenesses have never been on a United States postage stamp. Ms. Rich, who is also head of Eddy-MacDonald fan club, has collected 20,000 signatures on a petition and will take them to the capital "to toss them on the desk of the person in charge of making decisions" at the Postal Service. In addition, she will bring with her a contingent of other fans who will march along with her singing "Indian Love Call," the couple's famous duet.

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Sharon Rich to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 05:21, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

:*Keep Sharon Rich and merge/redirect the rest of the nominated articles to Sharon Rich. Cunard (talk) 05:21, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

::*Here is an article about Mac/Eddy Today:

{{cite news |last=Johnson |first=Sharon |date=1993-10-15 |title=Newsletter arrives // All you wanted to know about Eddy, MacDonald |url=http://docs.newsbank.com/s/InfoWeb/aggdocs/AWNB/10D8A427EE54AEF2/BBC7CC9A7BC74947BFA63E13740F57F3 |newspaper=The Patriot-News |accessdate=2015-01-07 |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/6VObpMgnr |archivedate=2015-01-07 }}

If another source about Mac/Eddy Today could be found, the subject would be notable.

Cunard (talk) 05:36, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Whether Sharon Rich is truly all that notable in and of herself is debatable, but the topics of Nelson Eddy and Jeanette MacDonald, which apparently constitute the bulk of her life's work, are most definitely notable so this pushes the discussion slightly toward KEEP imo, since she has gone to incredible lengths in the study of her topics, even going so far as to edit a book of letters between MacDonald and a pre-Eddy lover, one Irving Stone, not the writer but an early 20th century department store owner. Since she has created lots of factual content about famous people, I would say KEEP, since there is an article on Clifford Irving, whose most famous work was a bogus bio of another prominent Hollywood person, Howard Hughes. 2600:1004:B11B:BD40:6119:7316:FF63:1A49 (talk) 13:53, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

• Merge and redirect to Sharon Rich - After reviewing the above arguments from {{u|Cunard}}, I agree that the biographical article on Rich does fulfill the notability criteria, and that the other articles up for deletion here can be merged or redirected to her bio page. Sweethearts can probably remain as an independent article. I, JethroBT ^{drop me a line} 15:39, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

• Keep Sharon Rich, merge the other AfD'd articles, per {{U|Cunard}}. --Arxiloxos (talk) 03:05, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.