Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bukit Bintang Boys' Secondary School

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:{{la|1=Bukit Bintang Boys' Secondary School}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

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Unnotable school does not satisfy WP:GNG, some editor decided to remove PROD with no improvements what so ever. N niyaz (talk) 00:45, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

• Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 July 20. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 01:00, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Schools and Malaysia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:06, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
• Comment: Just to clarify the timeline here, the article was deleted on July 13 after User:N niyaz's PROD expired. User:Auyongcheemeng made an undeletion request, saying {{tq|this is one of the few schools that predates the founding of Malaysia|q=y}}, and the request was fulfilled on July 17, restoring the article. The PROD tag was correctly removed by an admin as part of the undeletion process. Bsoyka (t • c • g) 05:04, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
• :@Bsoyka Unfortunately being {{tq|'one of the few schools that predates the founding of Malaysia'}} does not explain its failure in satisfying WP:GNG. For your information, there are thousands of schools that predates Malaysia's independence. And unless this school is a high achieving school which is rare, I don't see the school showing any significance. N niyaz (talk) 11:39, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
• ::I agree. It was not that few for the number of schools during that time. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 15:03, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

• This is one example a mission school set up by missionaries in the early days in pre-Malaysia days, not that 'rare' yes, but they are getting there. In the current and foreseeable future of political climate and increasing Islamisation of Malaysia the number of these type of schools are on the decline (462 nationwide, 227 in peninsular Malaysia in 2011 {{Cite web |title=Mission schools in Malaysia |url=https://theedgemalaysia.com/article/mission-schools-malaysia |access-date=2024-07-23 |website=The Edge Malaysia}} down to 420 nationwide, 191 in peninsular Malaysia in 2024 {{Cite web |title=Directory of Christian Mission Schools in Malaysian (2024) |url=https://www.fcmsm.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Mission-Schools-in-Malaysia-FCMSM-16april2021.pdf |access-date=2024-07-23 |website=Federation of Christian Schools Malaysia}}). [Not that many of these schools have wiki pages written]. These schools have contributed in the Malaysia's early days as a nation to produce current and former leaders/notable persons. [Bukit Bintang Boys' Secondary School] is no exception (see its list of alumni). Not many schools among the 10,000+ currently operating schools in Malaysia can attest to that. Bukit Bintang Girls' School (also was a mission school, but sadly no longer exists) a sister school involved in its founding of BBBSS has its wiki page preserved.C.M. Au Yong (talk) 03:59, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

I still stand by my earlier reasoning for this page to remain, being: historical and a pre-Malaysia school that has contributed to the early nation-building.C.M. Au Yong (talk) 03:55, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

:The facts of significance you provided deserve a place at article such as Education in Malaysia instead of this school. The school is not inherent of notability because it has early contribution to humanities as a missionary establishment per WP:ORGSIG. The school is not inheritable of notability because it has notable alumni per WP:INHERITORG.

:Issue with this article is the history and other notable events sections fails to WP:PROVEIT with reliable sources. Other part could be just WP:MILL content. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 07:58, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

::Sections that doesn't have verifiable/sources should be removed those cases, not an outright entire page removal. It doesn't help the case that the name "Bukit Bintang" is extremely SEO unfriendly as a casual web search with those terms will refer to "Jalan Bukit Bintang, Kuala Lumpur" the tourist spot, instead of the school. There are sources out there but they aren't electronic accessible/one dead trees for the most part/or buried in older web archives.C.M. Au Yong (talk) 15:07, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

:: There is just barely some digital traces that remain to this day, eg. mentioned in passing: BBBS & BBGS as major mission schools in the country in its day{{Cite web |url=https://www.malaymail.com/news/what-you-think/2014/05/07/a-christians-response-to-acis-seminar-stephen-ng/664215 | title="A Christian’s response to ACIS seminar — Stephen Ng" |access-date=2024-07-24 |website=www.malaymail.com}}. C.M. Au Yong (talk) 16:16, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

:::I assume removing them would leave nothing much left. A search at https://search.nlb.gov.sg/onesearch/Search?query=%22bukit+bintang+boys%22&cont=newspaper showing newspapers but irrelevant to article. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 04:26, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

:::Comment - Being a mission school does not address the issue whatsoever, 420 or 191 is a big number to start with. Some of the sources cited in the article are also press releases and/or paid materials. And for your information, the enwiki is not for personal blogging and since it is the most spoken language it should be more stricter than mswiki. N niyaz (talk) 14:51, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

{{Reflist-talk}}

• Redirect to List of schools in Selangor. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 03:38, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: We need to hear more opinions. Also, editors, please sign all of your comments in an AFD discussion so that other editors know whose opinion they are. We shouldn't have to look at the page history to find this out.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:53, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

::(420 or 191) Of that number not many have wikipedia pages (see List of missionary schools in Malaysia), the ones that do is rather incomplete/or not much to begin with (like Ong Kai Jin, has mentioned, not "much left"). They all need significant work. As for personal blogging comment (I have been on Wikipedia long enough to be aware of that, far longer than both of you persons commenting), I agree that some edits need not be in there. (I believe that's because of the comments, asking for school news updates on the article's talk pages).

::Remember that most of these school wiki pages are likely came to be/created/edited by students or staff (during their years there). They likely don't monitor the pages unless they are a frequent/semi-frequent contributor with an up-to-date account on Wikipedia, If they aren't regulars they are even more so unaware of Wikipedia's editing/writing article standards. (So that's a really low bar to getting school articles deleted without much contest)

::The school's article certainly does not satisfy Wikipedia's definition of 'notability', as it does not have easily verifiable records in the digital age. There hasn't been much coverage on the school in recent years.

::I have said all I wanted despite the school's lack of notability according to WP:GNG, the school is notable to the general public in its time of founding among other notable schools of its time along the likes of Victoria Institution, Methodist Boys' School, Kuala Lumpur and should remain like its sister school Bukit Bintang Girls' School. As the school's alumni, I'll say, "Nisi Dominus Frustra". I'm done here, there is only so much one person can do to convince anyone. C.M. Au Yong (talk) 18:28, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

:::I say that the newspapers of English-medium and Malay-medium in the country lacked representing voice on the development of the schools. See WP:SBEXT. Ong Kai Jin (talk) 11:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

:::First, your account although older than ours, your sole purpose of creating that account is to edit the article mentioned which most probably means you have a WP:COI. Also notability CAN NOT be brief, unless the subject receives significant coverage. N niyaz (talk) 09:08, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

• Weak keep per my standards at User:Bearian/Standards. Specifically, it’s over 65 years old, has several major alumni, and otherwise passes GNG. Bearian (talk) 21:56, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
• Very weak keep. Limited coverage but [https://www.google.com/books/edition/Blood_Believer_and_Brother/ Douglas and Pederson], and[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Christianity_in_Malaysia/9RbkAAAAMAAJ Roxborough et al], and [https://www.thestar.com.my/news/community/2010/11/16/reunion-brings-exbbbs-boys-back-to-school the Star] push it over the line. Plus I am guessing there are sources in Malay and/or Chinese I don't have the ability to review. Dclemens1971 (talk) 01:11, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 19:56, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

A [https://www.google.com/search?q=%E2%80%9C%E6%AD%A6%E5%90%89%E5%85%8D%E7%99%BB%E7%94%B7%E4%B8%AD%E2%80%9D+OR+%E2%80%9C%E6%AD%A6%E5%90%89%E5%85%8D%E7%99%BB%E5%9B%BD%E4%B8%AD%E2%80%9D+OR+%E2%80%9C%E6%AD%A6%E5%90%89%E5%85%8D%E7%99%BB%E4%B8%AD%E5%AD%A6%E2%80%9D search of “武吉免登男中” OR “武吉免登国中” OR “武吉免登中学” on Google] showed some newspapers in Chinese mentioning the school but did not discuss on the school,{{Cite news |date=2012-01-08 |title=人民力量接投诉．国中仍发《连环扣》 |url=https://www.sinchew.com.my/20120108/%E4%BA%BA%E6%B0%91%E5%8A%9B%E9%87%8F%E6%8E%A5%E6%8A%95%E8%AF%89%EF%BC%8E%E5%9B%BD%E4%B8%AD%E4%BB%8D%E5%8F%91%E3%80%8A%E8%BF%9E%E7%8E%AF%E6%89%A3%E3%80%8B/ |access-date=2024-08-06 |language=zh-MY |script-work=zh:星洲日报 |trans-work=Sin Chew Daily}}{{Cite news |date=2014-03-19 |title=杨美盈：征地包括灵17区及19区排屋．促公布金白大道路线详情 |url=https://www.sinchew.com.my/20140319/%E6%9D%A8%E7%BE%8E%E7%9B%88%EF%BC%9A%E5%BE%81%E5%9C%B0%E5%8C%85%E6%8B%AC%E7%81%B517%E5%8C%BA%E5%8F%8A19%E5%8C%BA%E6%8E%92%E5%B1%8B%EF%BC%8E%E4%BF%83%E5%85%AC%E5%B8%83%E9%87%91%E7%99%BD%E5%A4%A7/ |access-date=2024-08-06 |language=zh-MY |script-work=zh:星洲日报 |trans-work=Sin Chew Daily}}{{Cite news |date=2017-10-07 |title=灵市长:推广环保清洁 放眼30%市民参与3R |url=https://www.enanyang.my/%E5%9C%B0%E6%96%B9/%E7%81%B5%E5%B8%82%E9%95%BF%E6%8E%A8%E5%B9%BF%E7%8E%AF%E4%BF%9D%E6%B8%85%E6%B4%81-%E6%94%BE%E7%9C%BC30%E5%B8%82%E6%B0%91%E5%8F%82%E4%B8%8E3r |access-date=2024-08-06 |language=zh-MY |script-work=zh:南洋商报 |trans-work=Nanyang Siang Pau}}{{Cite news |last=刘 |first=佩明 |last2=卢 |first2=淑敏 |date=2021-09-20 |title=雪18岁以下 快来接种 MSU中心至23日 为27校服务 |url=https://kl.chinapress.com.my/20210920/%E9%9B%AA%E5%B7%9E18%E5%B2%81%E4%BB%A5%E4%B8%8B%E9%9D%92%E5%B0%91%E5%B9%B4-%E5%8D%B3%E6%97%A5%E8%B5%B7%E6%8E%A5%E7%A7%8D%E7%96%AB%E8%8B%97/ |access-date=2024-08-06 |language=zh-MY |script-work=zh:中國報 |trans-work=China Press}}{{Cite news |date=2021-09-20 |title=◤新冠又一年◢ 雪18岁以下快来接种 MSU中心至23日 为27校服务 |url=https://www.chinapress.com.my/20210920/%E2%97%A4%E6%96%B0%E5%86%A0%E5%8F%88%E4%B8%80%E5%B9%B4%E2%97%A2-%E9%9B%AA18%E5%B2%81%E4%BB%A5%E4%B8%8B%E5%BF%AB%E6%9D%A5%E6%8E%A5%E7%A7%8D-msu%E4%B8%AD%E5%BF%83%E8%87%B323%E6%97%A5-%E4%B8%BA27/ |access-date=2024-08-06 |language=zh-MY |script-work=zh:中國報 |trans-work=China Press}}{{Cite news |last=张 |first=慧慈 |date=2023-11-08 |title=推介《护航行动》经费补助计划　林鸿泰：鼓励更多学生学习华文 |url=https://www.orientaldaily.com.my/news/central/2023/11/08/609408 |access-date=2024-08-06 |language=zh-MY |script-work=zh:东方日报 |trans-work=Oriental Daily News (Malaysia)}} and this newspaper in Malay also.{{Cite news |last=Razali |first=Safeek Affendy |date=2016-02-28 |title=Dua mati, 2 parah kes serangan kumpulan kongsi gelap |work=BH |url=https://api.bharian.com.my/taxonomy/term/11/2016/02/128864/dua-mati-2-parah-kes-serangan-kumpulan-kongsi-gelap |access-date=2024-08-05 |language=zh-MY}} Ong Kai Jin (talk) 17:27, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

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:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.