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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Iba 'Yan!

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. While there are lots of keep votes, the primary policy based reason to keep an article of this type is that it is covered by reliable sources. In this case, evidence is provided that these sources are not reliable, and this isn't refuted in any meaningful way "I like it" isn't sufficient to pass the bar of WP:GNG, it must be supported by significant coverage in multiple reliable sources, as per the policy. What is reliable and what isn't reliable is not just a function of finding from WP:RSN, although that is considered the final authority if cases brought before it. In the event a website or other type of source hasn't been taken to the noticeboard, we use WP:COMMONSENSE and compare it to prior instances of like sources. {{u|Howard the Duck}} has provided an analysis of the sources that seems reasonable, and his experience adds credibility to those claims. And again, no one has refuted or disproved this in any meaningful way, even though the discussion has been relisted twice. So looking at the weight of arguments based on policy rationales, I see a consensus to delete. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 10:49, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

=[[:Iba 'Yan!]]=

{{AFD help}}

:{{la|Iba 'Yan!}} – (View AfDView log)

:({{Find sources AFD|title=Iba 'Yan!}})

Not notable as per WP:GNG and WP:TVSHOW. Nominated for G5 as creator is indeffed, tag removed by involved editor with no source added. Lacks any RS, coverage. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:59, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:59, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 10:04, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

  • Keep: Article has reliable sources and article needs more update to edit. SeanJ 2007 (talk) 10:07, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

::YouTube is never a reliable source, and using ABS-CBN News as a source for ABS-CBN programs don't make it a reliable source at least for that program concerned. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:03, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

:::{{ping|Howard the Duck}} I added yesterday 1 reliable source, that is also the same as Paano Kita Mapasasalamatan? (Philippine TV program), the source on that article is the same as Iba 'Yan! but Paano Kita Mapasasalamatan? (Philippine TV program) did not request any deletion. If you want to add more source to make it reliable, please do so before the answer will be delete. Thank You! SeanJ 2007 (talk) 01:19, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

::::{{ping|SeanJ 2007}}. Please read WP:RS. Your so-called "reliable source" is ABS-CBN News writing about an ABS-CBN program. That abjectly fails the WP:RS test. You can't use that, even on the other article you used (assuming it's also ABS-CBN News writing about an ABS-CBN program). BTW, you gave me a new article to WP:PROD. Howard the Duck (talk) 16:38, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

  • Delete as it stands, the article has zero reliable sources to speak of. Howard the Duck (talk) 16:40, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. I highly doubt that this Manila Bulletin report (https://mb.com.ph/2021/03/26/angel-locsin-brings-stories-of-comfort-women-on-iba-yan/) would help the article to satisfy the GNG. —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 16:55, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Yeah, that's an unsigned press release, and is cited by WP:NEWSORG as a classic example of what a reliable source is not. Howard the Duck (talk) 18:04, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment: Just add any source that is reliable, or I will just add that source. SeanJ 2007 (talk) 02:35, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

:I added the source that {{user|HueMan1}} added here. SeanJ 2007 (talk) 02:41, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

::{{re|SeanJ 2007}} {{u|Howard the Duck}} already said that that source isn't a WP:RS. —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 03:05, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

:::{{re|HueMan1}} I searched reliable sources for Iba 'Yan!, but no reliable sources has not popped out, what should we do? SeanJ 2007 (talk) 03:25, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

::::{{re|SeanJ 2007}} Simple, delete it. —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 06:22, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

:{{re|Alexandermcnabb}} All articles that has no source or reliable source moved to draft, if that article moved to draft, an administrator will revert it to article space if the draft has reliable source. SeanJ 2007 (talk) 08:44, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

::All articles? I don't think so. If a poorly sourced article fails the WP:GNG, it gets deleted after an AfD. I don't think draftifying these two would make any significant difference at all, just like what {{u|Alexandermcnabb}} said. Besides, all drafts are automatically deleted after 6 months of inactivity, will you ever find an RS for these two? —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 15:20, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

:::{{ping|HueMan1}} See this if this is okay.... For Iba 'Yan!, [https://www.abs-cbn.com/newsroom/news-releases/2020/9/9/2angel-locsins-iba-yan-launches-online-show?lang=] [https://www.teamangelph.com/2020/06/iba-yan-pilot-episode-features.html] [https://www.teamangelph.com/2020/09/angel-locsin-and-team-iba-yan-surprise.html]. For Paano Kita Mapasasalamatan? (Philippine TV program), [https://ent.abs-cbn.com/pkm2020/articles-news/viewers-find-hope-inspiration-in-judays-paano-kita-mapasasalamatan-12901]. SeanJ 2007 (talk) 07:55, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

::::{{ping|SeanJ 2007}} I implore you to read and understand WP:RS. None of these are good enough. LOL at "TeamAngel.com" as a reliable source. Howard the Duck (talk) 12:43, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

:::::{{ping|Howard the Duck}} So can I add the "teamangel.com" source at the article so the article will be reliable? LOL haha. SeanJ 2007 (talk) 14:06, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

:{{od}}{{re|SeanJ 2007}} No, that's not how it works. Haven't you read WP:RS yet? —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 00:38, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

::{{re|HueMan1}} I already read that. SeanJ 2007 (talk) 03:21, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

:::{{re|SeanJ 2007}} Where exactly in WP:RS does Wikipedia allow fan-generated fansites as WP:RS? Howard the Duck (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

::::{{re|Howard the Duck}} None, it is not included there :). SeanJ 2007 (talk) 14:40, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment: {{u|SeanJ 2007}}, I have struck your other votes. You can vote only once. ASTIG😎 (ICE T • ICE CUBE) 02:50, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep: The sources in the article (except YouTube) are reliable, including the ones indicated above (except for Team Angel PH). I also found some reliable sources which talk about the show: [https://www.philstar.com/entertainment/2020/06/14/2020831/what-expect-angel-locsins-new-iba-yan-docu-series], [https://manilastandard.net/mobile/article/330256], [https://www.onemusic.ph/news/watch-sam-mangubat-sings-iba-yan-theme-song-5411], [https://www.goodnewspilipinas.com/angel-locsins-newest-tv-show-iba-yan-features-inspiring-filipino-stories/] and [https://www.rappler.com/brandrap/get-ready-with-me/get-ready-with-me-philantropist-activist-angel-locsin]. It's also mentioned [https://businessmirror.com.ph/2020/06/26/the-return-of-abs-cbn/ here] as well. Search results also return coverage of certain episodes. Even if these sources are from local media, they're definitely reliable. That said, the article is good enough to pass WP:TVSHOW. ASTIG😎 (ICE T • ICE CUBE) 02:50, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

:: PR promo pieces and paid media. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 06:03, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

  • Keep: Essentially the same reason I have for keeping Paano Kita Mapasasalamatan? (Philippine TV program) - Upon research, the subject of the article has been covered by news outlets other than the station. If the creator or other editors are given the chance, these outlets could be cited within the article so as to make it comply with the criteria of having an independent reliable source. Gardo Versace (talk) 08:34, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

:I agreed on {{u|Gardo Versace}}'s decision, because this program might do something with a reliable source on it. SeanJ 2007 (talk) 01:16, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

::{{re|SeanJ 2007}} Do what exactly? —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 05:08, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

::{{re|HueMan1}} Changes on timeslot or name, events like returning on nationwide free-tv on 2022 when Duterte's administration ends, etc. These things might get a reliable source. SeanJ 2007 (talk) 07:33, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

:::{{re|SeanJ 2007}} Chill pal, we're not a crystal ball. —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 07:52, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

::::{{re|HueMan1}} Ok! SeanJ 2007 (talk) 08:02, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

  • {{u|Superastig}} added reliable sources here and will be added to Iba 'Yan!, so Iba 'Yan! will have a reliable source and will not be deleted. I am asking a favor to close this debate. Thank You! SeanJ 2007 (talk) 06:08, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
  • {{u|SeanJ 2007}} Seriously, have you read and understood WP:RS? None of the sources fit the bill, and all sources used the article have been tagged. This was a poor performance for a WP:REFBOMBING if I ever saw one. Howard the Duck (talk) 13:37, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

:{{re|Howard the Duck}} I read WP:RS. SeanJ 2007(talk) 12:46, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

::{{re|SeanJ 2007}} But did you understand it? —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 05:50, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

:::{{re|HueMan1}} No. SeanJ 2007 (talk) 06:37, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

::::{{re|SeanJ 2007}} You can read Help:Referencing for beginners. Maybe it could help you understand WP:RS? —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 10:20, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

  • Keep: A search on Google with keywords "Iba Yan Angel Locsin " provides the following sources that I consider as supporting the article:
  • https://manilastandard.net/mobile/article/326008
  • https://www.philstar.com/entertainment/2020/06/14/2020831/what-expect-angel-locsins-new-iba-yan-docu-series
  • https://entertainment.inquirer.net/385878/angel-locsins-iba-yan-stages-online-concert-for-drag-queens-affected-by-quarantine
  • https://mb.com.ph/2021/03/26/angel-locsin-brings-stories-of-comfort-women-on-iba-yan/
  • https://www.abante.com.ph/dimples-durog-ang-puso-sa-mga-inabusong-lola/ (this may mention a possible impact of one of the documentary's episodes, at least to Dimples Romana)
  • https://www.philstar.com/entertainment/2021/02/04/2075380/angel-locsin-jobseekers-new-angel (mentions the show's partnership with Trabahanap in January 2021)
  • https://manilastandard.net/mobile/article/333815 (mentions about its digital version IbaYanihan)

_ JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 18:00, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

  • Let's see if these pass the WP:RS test:
  • [https://manilastandard.net/mobile/article/326008] Fail; unsigned praise release
  • [https://www.philstar.com/entertainment/2020/06/14/2020831/what-expect-angel-locsins-new-iba-yan-docu-series] Fail; copy-paste praise release
  • [https://entertainment.inquirer.net/385878/angel-locsins-iba-yan-stages-online-concert-for-drag-queens-affected-by-quarantine] Fail; discusses the TV show trivially
  • [https://mb.com.ph/2021/03/26/angel-locsin-brings-stories-of-comfort-women-on-iba-yan/] Fail; unsigned praise release
  • [https://www.abante.com.ph/dimples-durog-ang-puso-sa-mga-inabusong-lola/] Fail; tabloid
  • [https://www.philstar.com/entertainment/2021/02/04/2075380/angel-locsin-jobseekers-new-angel] Fail; copy-paste praise release
  • [https://manilastandard.net/mobile/article/333815] Fail; unsigned praise release
  • All of these sources are terrible. Howard the Duck (talk) 14:07, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
  • {{ping|Howard the Duck}} if Abante is unreliable because it is a tabloid, then you should boldly remove all Abante references/citations on dozens of Philippine showbiz articles, like those of Gerald Anderson, Michael de Mesa, Ranz Kyle, and Kyline Alcantara. Also remove all sentences supported by Abante citations, if you claim Abante as unreliable. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 15:28, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
  • {{ping|JWilz12345}} It is unreliable. I'm surprised that someone's insisting that it's reliable. Would you use Abante for politics and sports articles? Of course, not. Now if I'd do that, maybe, but there are more important things to do here. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:36, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
  • :{{Re|Howard the Duck}} that won't stop unless you will report it at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard, where there is a chance that it will be blacklisted for good (if really found unreliable). JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 16:19, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
  • :{{Re|JWilz12345}} I actually considered saying that but I figured, is anybody actually using Abante as a reliable source to merit blacklisting? Like people exclusively use Abante over other sources? I don't think it has come to that. It's not as if people insist on using WP:DAILYMAIL as a source over other sources. Howard the Duck (talk) 16:31, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep Meets WP:TVSHOW with sources presented above. They're reliable enough IMV. SBKSPP (talk) 01:54, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: There are serious concerns about the quality of sources, which I am hoping future participation can address.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Dennis Brown - 2¢ 12:56, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, jp×g 01:53, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

  • This was already relisted twice. We've seen AFDs before with references that are published on usually WP:RS sources, but the news articles itself are not reliable. This is one of them. None save one of the RS, no matter how plentiful, make the cut. As per WP:GNG, articles with just one WP:RS fail that criterion. Howard the Duck (talk) 21:37, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.