Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joycelyn O'Brien

:{{la|Joycelyn O'Brien}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Joycelyn_O%27Brien Stats])

:({{Find sources AFD|Joycelyn O'Brien}})

Non notable actor. WP:NACTOR. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 22:33, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 04:40, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Lonehexagon (talk) 00:43, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

• Delete fails notability guidelines DocumentError (talk) 23:09, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
• Delete - not notable. Deathlibrarian (talk) 07:26, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
• Delete - No sources and fails WP:GNG. -- Dane ^talk 18:04, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

::After reviewing the article and this discussion again, I continue to believe this to fail WP:GNG. I tend to agree with {{u|Soetermans}} that she likely doesn't pass WP:NACTOR either. -- Dane ^talk 03:38, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

• Strong Keep. I've improved the article to better demonstrate her notability. I would like to remind the nominator of this article, and the other users who have voted delete so far, that according to WP:BEFORE, before nominating an article for AfD, you have a responsibility to "Consider whether the article could be improved rather than deleted" and also to "Search for additional sources, if the main concern is notability." A quick Google search shows this actress has appeared in Broadway plays, appeared in multiple movies, appeared in episodes of four major television series, and starred in more than a half dozen made-for-TV movies. She easily passes WP:NACTOR for "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions" and this article should definitely be kept. Lonehexagon (talk) 19:58, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

::I would like to remind you, {{re|Lonehexagon|p=}}, that you do not need to remind experienced editors like {{re|Dane|Deathlibrarian|DocumentError}} and myself about Wikipedia's guidelines. Why are you assuming to I didn't take the time to check O'Brien's notability? I did, and I'm not convinced that she passes WP:NACTOR, because it says "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions", italics my emphasis. "Significant", "multiple" and "notable". A couple of guest appearances on TV shows, a handful of run-of-the-mill made-for-TV movies in which she did not receive top-billing (check IMDb), and her work on Oscar (see [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102603/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast IMDb cast list], she's pretty far down) does not prove notability. That you have a different reading of WP:NACTOR is fine, but it does not automatically mean everyone agrees with you. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 14:40, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

• Keep The referenced articles are about the subject rather than incidental mentions, and in significant sources: United Press International and Los Angeles Times. Passes GNG. Dorsetonian (talk) 18:09, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

::Disagree, we still need several, reliable sources. A piece by the LA Times where O'Brien describes her experiences on one film does not establish notability for herself. See also my comment above. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 14:40, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

::: It is your prerogative to disagree but my position is unchanged. To me there is no room for doubt: if the WP:GNG is met then the subject is notable, and it is clear that it is met; we have "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject": two non-trivial articles about the subject in separate, reliable, non-primary sources. WP:NACTOR, which you discuss above, is a supplementary guideline for when the WP:BASIC notability guidelines are not met. Dorsetonian (talk) 16:55, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

• Comment Soetermans, I appreciate your comments, but like Dorsetonian my position is unchanged. I believe she passes WP:ACTOR for appearing in a Broadway production, appearing as named roles in movies, and making 3 significant appearances with named roles in major television shows. Lonehexagon (talk) 19:36, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
• Comment I have had another look at the article, and my vote to delete, remains unchanged. She has appeared in a few plays, and played some small roles in TV, but nothing major, and the articles don't discuss here in detail. Possbly a case of TOOSOON, and when she has established herself more, there may be more to make her notable. Deathlibrarian (talk) 02:44, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.