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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of songs about drugs

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep and add to List of songs about AfD's that were closed as Keep. Per Canley's analysis, renomination of poorly devised/maintained indvidual lists should still be ok, but mass deletion doesn't seem to fly. ~ trialsanderrors 02:17, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

=[[List of songs about drugs]]=

:{{la-admin|List of songs about drugs}}

Arbitary, unmaintainable, incomplete and therefore useless listcruft. There is a precedent for deleting lists of songs, see [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixindex&from=Articles+for+deletion%2FList+of+songs+about&namespace=4 here]. MER-C 06:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Also nominated is every single list listed [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixindex&from=List+of+songs+about&namespace=0 here], for the same reasons. MER-C 07:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I've expanded the list as some people have missed it (myself included) --Steve (Slf67) talk 01:46, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

List of songs about Birmingham, List of songs about Birmingham, Alabama, List of songs about California, List of songs about Chicago, List of songs about Detroit, List of songs about London, List of songs about Los Angeles, List of songs about Manchester, List of songs about Melbourne, List of songs about New York City, List of songs about Pakistan, List of songs about Ronald Reagan, List of songs about Seattle, List of songs about Sydney, List of songs about Vietnam, List of songs about World War II, List of songs about animals, List of songs about astrology, List of songs about automobiles, List of songs about being alone, List of songs about bipolar disorder, List of songs about childhood, List of songs about children, List of songs about cocaine, List of songs about computer and video games, List of songs about computer games,List of songs about criminals, List of songs about death, List of songs about disasters, List of songs about disease, List of songs about divorce, List of songs about dogs, List of songs about drinking, List of songs about drugs, List of songs about drugs other than heroin, List of songs about environmental pollution, List of songs about famous people, List of songs about famous people (other than politicians), List of songs about fear of death, List of songs about fictitious bands or musicians, List of songs about firearms and weapons, List of songs about friendship, List of songs about hair, List of songs about heroin, List of songs about holidays, List of songs about homosexuality, List of songs about killers, List of songs about marijuana, List of songs about masturbation, List of songs about mental illness, List of songs about money, List of songs about mothers, List of songs about new york, List of songs about new york city, List of songs about nuclear war, List of songs about nyc, List of songs about or referencing Elvis Presley, List of songs about other drugs, List of songs about politicians, List of songs about prostitution, List of songs about racism, List of songs about radio, List of songs about robots, List of songs about school, List of songs about selling out, List of songs about sex, List of songs about sleep, List of songs about suicide, List of songs about tequila, List of songs about the Vietnam War, List of songs about the end of the world, List of songs about the environment, List of songs about the environmental pollution, List of songs about the future, List of songs about the vietnam war, List of songs about video games, List of songs about war, List of songs about weather

  • KeepAre you kidding me? This article is probably the ONLY useful list of songs... my sister had to do a research thing for university and she had to talk about songs relating to drugs, however she knew none! If it hadn't been for this list she would have been toast. And just because it's ARBITRARY doesn't mean it's UNINTERESTING. Crazy people! 70.51.205.175 21:40, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per precident. Unmaintainable list. I would suggest nominating the rest in small blocks, as there is also precident for DRV overturning mass AfDs. Resolute 07:12, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete Listcruft. Are we going to have lists for every song about love? death? politics? Keeping this leaves open the door for all lists of songs based on every conceivable subject. Furthermore, as Resolute mentions, it's absolutely unmaintainable and very open to original research. There are many, many songs that can be interpreted to be about drugs without explicitly saying so and there'd be NPOV and OR arguments about each and every one. Plus, the shear number of songs about drugs would make for a very, very long list indeed. Actually... aren't all songs about drugs ;) --The Way 07:20, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

:Comment I didn't even notcie the other nominations included; there really are lists for all those different song topics? That's... sad. This is proof that having one of these types of lists leads to having countless others that are just as random. --The Way 07:49, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

:Oi! Language. --Nehwyn 13:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete same as list of all songs about orange, yellow, cars. Tulkolahten 10:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  • You're joking. Delete, surely this list could never be complete. Crufteh. riana_dzasta 11:56, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep What's inherently wrong with a list of songs? Of course a list like this would never be complete, and why should it be? What's the problem with having lists about all sorts of things anyway? They are actually very useful to those of us looking for songs about certain topics, though I do agree that they need to be verified somehow. Stephenjh 12:47, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete - WP:NOT an indiscriminate heap of info, and quite listcruft. --Nehwyn 13:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep - I feel that these lists are helpful for people looking for songs after a specific topic. Plus lumping all the lists together is probably not the best way to do it, perhaps we could just delete the overly vague or large lists. Bakilas 00:15, 13 November 2006 (UTC).
  • Keep It's not useless; I have it on my watchlist because I used it once. Popular culture by topic and method makes for useful divisions to study it by, and that makes the lists valuable.--Prosfilaes 14:44, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  • And I'm not sure what that list is, but you've got to list them on this page for it to be a valid AfD. Just giving us a list isn't valid.--Prosfilaes 14:47, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

*Delete Unsourced and ridiculously subjective. SteveLamacq43 16:59, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete as listcruft meshach 17:07, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: The deletion notices for all the listed articles refer to this, which appears to be a discussion about a list of songs about drugs. The arguments about how maintainable and useful the lists are would seem to me to vary by topic. I believe, for example, that the List of songs about Chicago is more encyclopedic and more feasible to maintain than a List of songs about drugs. This debate needs to be split, at LEAST, into similar groupings. --Dystopos 18:14, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: Dystopos is right. The drug list should be deleted, but I am not prepared to throw all those others into the trash as well. The criticisms stated above do not apply equally to all. -- Rob C (Alarob) 23:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep - There are people looking for songs after a specific topic. perphaps only do a cleanup, the layour is screwed.

Patrick1982 18:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Object strongly to this AfD as given; each article must be in its own AfD, or at least all the articles must be listed one by one on the AfD page.--Prosfilaes 19:09, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep It's long enough and is well written. It could be more informative, but I see no real reason to delete it. 2Pac 20:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep - Do not think this should be deleted as it came in useful for myself, and other reasons given here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.30.83.1 (talk • contribs)
  • I have to say Keep, since you lumped every single list together, even the precious few that should be kept. Whose stupid idea was combination AfD noms? -Amarkov blahedits 21:51, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  • No need to fling insults. -- Rob C (Alarob)
  • Speedy Keep as much as I loathe the concept of cruft like "[http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/Cool_Things List of songs about a bag of four grapes]", a mass nom is not the way to go. Danny Lilithborne 23:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep only because I'm not convinced that all lists of songs are "unmaintainable" or unencyclopedic. 78 lists in a single nom seems a bit much, especially when 77 of them are not explicitly listed in the AfD itself, but behind a link. Shimeru 00:03, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete Each and Every Last One of Them lists of songs about whatever are listcruft, unencyclopedic. There is no need to have articles on every possibility of "songs about _____". I like WP:NOT an indiscriminate collection of information too. Now to just wait for another person to cite IAR for why we should keep this. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 00:47, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Reconsidered as the user nominated lots of lists without discrimination. With sources, the list is salvagable SteveLamacq43 01:41, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep due to lazy mass listing - very poor form in my opinion. To the nominator: there is some precedent for deleting certain song lists in the namespace search link you provided, but there is also considerable precedent to keep in that same list - did you check them all? If not, this kind of invalidates your use of this as a justification. Please list all the articles for AfD seperately by all means, or point to an unambiguous guideline, or discussion where consensus was reached in the Village Pump. --Canley 01:45, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • I have to say, Strong Keep, for the reasons given above. It is quite impossible to have a good debate about keeping or deleting articles when so many are bunched together. Some maybe should be deleted. Some should be kept. Some can be pretty well complete. Others will always be incomplete. Please close this with a speedy keep. --Bduke 01:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

:Comment Either all of these articles should be kept, or all should be deleted. People are arguing that there's too many up for deletion, but I don't believe this is the case. Either we're going to accept all lists of songs based on topic or we delete them all; there is no logical means of saying some song topic lists are ok while others aren't so we can't justify keeping some and excluding others. Personally, I have already stated that I strongly support deletion; this is a terrible precedent to set and leads to totally random lists that aren't worth having. --The Way 02:18, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

::I do not agree that there is no logical means of saying some song topic lists are ok while others aren't. ---Dystopos 03:08, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

::I feel that lists which would be too vague (Songs about Love etc.) should be deleted, but lists about more specific things (Songs about masturbation, Songs about killers etc.) Should be kept. Bakilas 04:38, 13 November 2006 (UTC).

  • Keep I think a mass listing is a bad idea - has anyone here looked at all the articles to make an appropriate assessment based on the merits of each? I think some that I am familiar with are interesting and useful, it is also useful to have such lists to redirect information that would otherwise clog up main article space. --Melburnian 02:57, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep I don't think policy should be decided via AfD. pfctdayelise (translate?) 03:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. I'm sure some of these are no good, but there are some that are, and there's no way to properly deal with them all in a single AfD. As pfctdayelise says, you shouldn't create policy by AfD; if there's a need for some standard on list topics in this area, then write it up somewhere. --bainer (talk) 04:39, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. Some of these articles are notable and rather interesting. Rebecca 04:54, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep As per above comments by Thebainer and Rebecca. -- Chuq 05:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Nomination is a violation of process and vastly over-reaches with its list of unrelated articles. Edison 05:46, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep - these articles fit in with the "culture" sections of major songs on large cities, and other items. I think, rather than this mass deletion, someone should go through and pull out any arbitrary lists, so we can vote on them individually, rather than for a whole lot. JROBBO 07:35, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Valid subjects for lists. Ohconfucius 08:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep, much as I despise pointless and unverifiable listcruft, this nomination is far too broad, and I can't possibly check all those articles. At a rough guess, I would support deletion for 80% of those articles if they were nominated individually, but as others have said, a few might actually be useful in some context or other. The notion that if one songlist is bad (or good), then they all must be is sheer nonsense! Xtifr tälk 10:04, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. The lists are useful. Yes, the lists may need to be wikified, pruned, cited and verified, but that's no ground for deletion. Aecis Dancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 10:12, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: The AfD notice has been removed from List of songs about masturbation because it has just survived a second AfD. Aecis Dancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 10:44, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: I've analysed the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixindex&from=Articles+for+deletion%2FList+of+songs+about&namespace=4 list of AfD debates] provided by MER-C as a precedent for deletion of lists of songs.

:*25 deleted

:*10 kept

:*6 no consensus, so kept

:*2 were incorrectly listed, so the debate was closed with no action

:*1 was merged (into this article: List of songs about drugs)

:*1 was speedy deleted as recreation of deleted material

:*... and one is currently running - this one.

:*Also note: List of songs about masturbation has actually survived four AfD nominations. List of songs about laziness survived one AfD, but was deleted in the second.

:I figure the results would be fairly similar if this batch of lists were nominated separately, and the fact that over a third of the articles were kept (some repeatedly), should give the nominator pause for thought that mass nomination is really inappropriate and unsuitable in this case. I find it kind of ironic that this discussion is an indiscriminate listing to get rid of supposedly indiscriminate listings! --Canley 13:50, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

:::Oooh. Nice observation. --Dystopos 14:38, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Keep - way too indiscriminate. Orderinchaos78 (t|c) 14:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete the originally nominated list as unsourced and unverifiable and unmaintainable. Keep the many other lists until either (1) a general policy discussion is held and comes to some consensus, or (2) they can be nominated in small closely-related groups instead of an indiscriminate horde. Some are more focused and more verifiable than others. I'll support deleting most of them, as this is not Wikimusic nor Wikitrivia, but they should be handled with proper attention to each one. Barno 15:39, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • keep please there is nothing wrong with this list at all Yuckfoo 20:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete the originally nominated list as above. I wouldn't mind seeing most other "List of songs about ---- " articles be deleted too, but lets take them one at a time. Crabapplecove 21:48, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Most of these lists are interesting and informative. A few may deserve deletion, but certainly not the main list. Also, the lists of songs about the Vietnam War, prostitution, WWII, sex, suicide, and quite a few others definitely deserve to be kept. Callmarcus 13 November 2006
  • Comment In addition, your reasons for deletion make no sense. A biography of a currently living person is incomplete, but that does not mean you should delete that biography. There are currently disclaimers are the top of all of these lists that informs the reader that the list may not be complete.
  • Keep There are lots of other things on Wikipedia that are not comprehensive. This is also something Wikipedia is pretty good for -- saving time for people looking for all x of type y. Could vote delete or merge on certain of these lists, but cannot do so when they are all nominated together. — Donama 11:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Technical Keep; this one bundles altogether too many articles. please renominate individually over a longer period of time, or at least grouped in bunches of no more than a handful, grouped by theme (e.g. nomination of lists of songs about various wars). I have no opinion about the articles; it's just that in order to put some sanity to the AfD process you don't bundle bazillion and six articles with exceedingly little in common with each other in one AfD. Remember the esoteric programming languages AfD that went bazquoncs. And that "all 200 articles in the Naruto episodes category" one. If you bundle AfDs, please at least make sure it's entirely possible for an editor to take a look at each of the articles in one (quick) sitting. And finally, "precedent" there may be, but each of these still needs individual consideration. You know, like all other articles up for deletion. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 14:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

::* I could certainly rationalize an AfD over ""all 200 articles in the Naruto episodes category" before I could rationalize this one. --Dystopos 14:47, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete all - These lists are overkill. Do we need a list of songs about Birmingham, Alabama? A list of songs about specific drugs? A list of songs about famous people other than politicians? Categories would probably be more useful for some of these things, but I still would not want to see Category:Songs about Birmingham, Alabama. George J. Bendo 14:45, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

::* I happen to like List of songs about Birmingham, Alabama. By comparison with some of these rather nebulous subjects, it is quite manageable and serves the purpose of not overloading the main article on the city. --Dystopos 14:47, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Keep all. If any lists of songs are worthwhile, these are. I can certainly see List of songs about Birmingham, Alabama being useful for scholarly research, for instance. Herostratus 15:35, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Found the Songs about the end of the world and found it very useful. They are only text and take very little space. Very useful for creating topical playlists of certain kinds of songs. Hadnt found anything else that helped until the article here.
  • Delete List of songs about drugs, however Discuss all other nominations separately. Timrem 18:50, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep You should not delete all of these lists. Most of them are informative and helpful. There seems to be an anti-list agenda going on here. If you truly feel they are incomplete, then add to them. Root7 14 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. Well researched, very useful list. Cnwb 22:49, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep all, this AfD shows a real misunderstanding of the rule of precedents and nominating. After these are all kept, the nominator and those whose delete votes are based on precedent will all gladly vote keep next time due to precedent set here, right? Yeah. Carlossuarez46 01:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment. I will be willing to vote Delete on most of these, but separate nominations are needed. utcursch | talk 12:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
  • KEEP This list is useful, considered and exists nowhere else. Other list entries must be determined individually.Lentisco 02:33, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
  • KEEP Good list 65.33.142.174 04:05, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

KEEP, the "Songs about Mental Illness" list is excellent and I'm going to use it in my class about popular culture and mental illness. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.117.64.3 (talk • contribs)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.