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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ronnie Nader

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. BJTalk 04:13, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

=[[Ronnie Nader]]=

:{{la|Ronnie Nader}} ([{{fullurl:Ronnie Nader|wpReason={{urlencode: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ronnie Nader}}&action=delete}} delete]) – (View AfD)(View log)

Vanity article by non notable person who is trying to be considered as "astronaut". Hektor (talk) 11:36, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

:Delete per nom. Vanity article of a non-notable subject with most references coming from the author's own website and writings. Rillian (talk) 12:50, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Weak Keep: Needs better sources, but the guy seems notable if the text is true. Niteshift36 (talk) 03:33, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Keep The article actually qualifies the WP:1E exception criteria - If the event is significant, and/or if the individual's role within it is substantial, a separate article for the person may be appropriate.. In this case, he is the first astronaut from Ecuador and qualifies per the John Hinckley, Jr. standard.Updated below -SpacemanSpiff (talk) 09:23, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Comment - Could you clarify in which way he is an astronaut ? I don't see any reason why he would qualify as such. As said previously, I think this article is exactly the same story as the now deleted International Space Agency article - self proclamed astronaut who has no other proof of his status than his own words and the articles based on them. This guy is just another Rick Hobson. Hektor (talk) 10:47, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

:: I found [http://moreresults.factiva.com/results/index/index.aspx?ref=TASS000020060825e28p0038p this] on Factiva, and there's coverage like [http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26source%3Darchive%26ct%3Dres%26cd%3D0-0%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.eluniverso.com%252F2008%252F10%252F29%252F0001%252F1064%252FD379D739E57A469C889D7D26BC785FED.html%26ei%3DEpUmSs-nHqDYqwPiu5y2DA%26usg%3DAFQjCNGEfoA1tXSQekLPTl5pGKHgdsBUTw%26sig2%3Dv-8TJ2sbGW57kKtIbNe7sQ&sl=es&tl=en&history_state0= on El Universo], most of it in Spanish. I don't deny that it sounds really made-up, especially the space agency that he founded, but it appears that he is the first person from Ecuador to have done it, even if it wasn't a research trip, but a commercial trip. There's also a trivial mention on [http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_7460000/newsid_7468000/7468032.stm Children's BBC] of his 'first astronaut from Ecuador' status, and an article in [http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2Fhi%2Fspanish%2Fscience%2Fnewsid_7595000%2F7595080.stm&sl=es&tl=en&history_state0= BBC World]. -SpacemanSpiff (talk) 15:32, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

:::He has flown in zero-g on board an airplane. So did I during an ESA sponsored flight for students. Should I get my entry in wikipedia ? Hektor (talk) 17:10, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

:::* Delete Ok, I read through a lot of links, he's referred to as astronaut, and part of the Soyuz (Factiva article preview), but on checking the Soyuz crew from TMA-8 to TMA-15, he isn't listed. I don't know what to make of this, it's just too absurd! -SpacemanSpiff (talk) 18:23, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Delete - Unverified claims to notability. If he were significant, there would be more sources discussing him. لennavecia 17:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep A Latin American astronaut is a notable person. The fact that he does not fly is not a criteria for no-notability. Non Scientific editors should not be allowed to comment here. Otherwise they woud know that, for example, chicken are birds but do not fly. Would you say that a chicken is not a bird because there are no independant sources saying that they fly? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.227.170.13 (talk) 22:00, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Keep He flies ! On eguadorian jets, he even mesures microgravity and UV index. This is not notable enough? He has created a Space Agency, by himself. Do you know many people who own a space agency? Not notable enough? What elese do you need?

Maybe some sense og humour.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Astragramma (talk • contribs) 22:10, 8 June 2009 (UTC) — Astragramma (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, \ Backslash Forwardslash / {talk} 11:42, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

:Keep I admit there's something weird and vaguely half assed about the whole thing, but notable is notable. - Richfife (talk) 04:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

:: Switching to Neutral. The more I poke around, the more my bullshit meter moves to the right. - Richfife (talk) 19:13, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Delete Vanity article, please see lengthy discussion Talk:Ronnie_Nader, e.g. detailed criticism by me. Claims to be a scientist (listed as "Ecuadorian Scientist") without providing proper references, etc. --Hilbert137 (talk) 03:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

:*This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 12:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. لennavecia 15:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Delete or Userfy. I look at this every week and think, "We really shouldn't be legitimizing this man's fantasy world" but never make a statement because his attempts to create an air of legitimacy about this have been fairly successful. Who knows, one day Ecuador may have astronauts but right now I don't think he qualifies as notable by being a professional astronaut. If he were a professional astronaut the evidence wouldn't be so iffy. I know that's circular reasoning but generally it isn't necessary to argue about whether or not someone is an astronaut. In this case the need for argument is itself a factor in the argument. Drawn Some (talk) 16:19, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Keep The first Ecuadorian astronaut is certainly notable. 173.96.182.183 (talk) 17:22, 19 June 2009 (UTC) — 173.96.182.183 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

: Can you prove that he's done more than dress up, start a website and strut around? In my mind, the current question is "It's bullshit, but does it rise to the level of notable bullshit?" - Richfife (talk) 18:19, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Delete "Nader is set to fly as mission specialist for the first three manned space missions of the Ecuadorian Civilian Space Program." Come on, this is insane. Nick mallory (talk) 15:06, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Weak keep There are [http://news.google.com/archivesearch?um=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=%22Ronnie+Nader%22&cf=all some sources] but most are in Spanish. [http://archivo.eluniverso.com/2007/06/11/0001/18/1A1D75C867454B35BA497E782115791B.aspx This one] seems substantial. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 18:32, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Keep. He's listed on Ecuadorian Civilian Space Agency and unless that cite is proven false, I think the first Ecuadorian astronaut is notable. 69.253.207.9 (talk) 03:39, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

: The Ecuadorian Civilian Space Agency has a very important sounding name, but... does it exist outside of Nader? I see no evidence that it's more than a one man organization. Perhaps making Nader redirect there? Or vice versa? - Richfife (talk) 15:26, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.