Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Cross Border Rivalry

:{{la|The Cross Border Rivalry}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/The_Cross_Border_Rivalry Stats])

:({{Find sources|The Cross Border Rivalry}})

No indication that this is actually a rivalry, as opposed to two teams who are obliged to play each other regulalry because of the nature of Australian soccer. The one reference provided makes no mention of any notable rivalry between the two clubs. Very little sourced prose and the unsourced prose consists of a lot of pov and peacock terms making this look more like WP:CRUFT than a genuine rivalry. Fenix down (talk) 07:58, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Fenix down (talk) 07:59, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

• Delete - no evidence this is a notable sporting rivalry. GiantSnowman 09:38, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
• Strong Keep. Sources need improving & perhaps a rename. Firstly, the nominator failed to follow the WP:BEFORE rule, and thus nominated the article without any chance for anyone to improve the page or to discuss the problems. Secondly, this rivalry is actually one of the most intense in the league and would clearly pass WP:GNG if sources were correctly added to the article. There is a long history of animosity between the two clubs, there have been heated incidents between not just the players, but also between staff & players on both sides, and this rivalry has included several major matches like Grand Finals. There has also been violence between supporter groups and calls from police authorities for calm before matches. I think the core problem here is the name. The "Cross Border Rivalry" is too generic a name for this topic, and has been applied to other rivalries in other sports like Rugby League. Keep, send it back for a rename debate and better sources. Macktheknifeau (talk) 10:47, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

::Comment: WP:NRVE suggests that "Editors evaluating notability should consider not only any sources currently named in an article, but also the possibility of notability-indicating sources that are not currently named in the article." NVRE also states "If it is likely that significant coverage in independent sources can be found for a topic, deletion due to lack of notability is inappropriate." I believe based on WP:NRVE that a deletion due to a lack of notability is inappropriate here. As explained above, I strongly believe this article is notable, and that there is significant coverage that just isn't used in the article at the moment. When the police have released a statement saying "There’s certainly a fierce rivalry between Adelaide United and Melbourne Victory supporters", then it follows there will be significant coverage in reliable sources. Keep via WP:NRVE. Macktheknifeau (talk) 15:43, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Rcsprinter (gossip) @ 10:56, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Rcsprinter (post) @ 10:56, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

• Strong delete there is no significant coverage of this term being applied to these football teams. see trove search [http://trove.nla.gov.au/result?q=%22Cross+Border+Rivalry%22&l-australian=y]. fails WP:GNG. LibStar (talk) 00:07, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

::Comment: As discussed above, this article is badly named. However, wikipedia doesn't delete articles because they are badly named. We move them. Trove search is an extremely poor way to find sources for specialist sports topics like this, especially when dealing with a poor name as the basis for the search. Your search was never going to find anything under the current name, that's not a reason to delete the article however. Macktheknifeau (talk) 15:43, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

::: my vote stands. there is no significant coverage of this rivalry. LibStar (talk) 23:41, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

::::Mack, if it is a simple case of moving the article to its correct name, please state what this name should be and show sources covering the rivalry specifically in a reliable and significant manner as required by WP:NRIVALRY. Fenix down (talk) 09:41, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

::::: It doesn't have a nickname so something basic like Adelaide-Melbourne Victory A-League Rivalry. A [https://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=adelaide+vs+melbourne+victory+rivalry simple google search] brings up sources that I believe are perfectly acceptable under both WP:NRIVALRY & WP:NRVE. Macktheknifeau (talk) 13:36, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

::::::Like what?!?, There are 646,000 results from that, all you need to do is provide links to specific, reliable sources that discuss the rivalry in detail, not match summaries that mention the word derby or something like that from which you synthesise an article. To be honest, I am finding it very difficult to understand why and how you can't do this if the rivalries are as notable as you claim as it would be the easiest and most definitive way to establish notability. Just saying "google adelaide melbourne victory rivalry" accomplishes nothing. If you do that for any player you will get hundreds of results, many of which entirely irrelevant or unreliable, but we don't accept that as proof of GNG for every non-notable player, why should we for this rivalry? Fenix down (talk) 13:49, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

WP:GOOGLEHITS does not establish notability. LibStar (talk) 15:36, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.