Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vladimir Kryukov (rower)

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Fails WP:GNG. Does not have significant coverage in non-database sources. Searched Soviet newspaper database and found no mention at all in central newspapers from 1952. Kges1901 (talk) 02:01, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Sportspeople, Olympics, and Russia. Kges1901 (talk) 02:01, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
• Delete Fails WP:NOLY and WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 04:10, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
• {{ping|LibStar}} He does pass NOLY as an Olympic medalist. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:11, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
• Weak delete; it doesn't look as if the significant coverage we presume to exist does exist in this instance. [https://books.google.co.nz/books?newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&id=dJ4aAQAAMAAJ Sport in the USSR] has a brief description, but even then it's just "Vladimir Kryukov, the stroke oarsman, was strong and imperturbable". I can't find anything else except listings with less information yet. J947 † ^edits 21:16, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
• [https://history.mai.ru/personalities/item.php?id=113764&referer=https%3A%2F%2Fru.wikipedia.org%2F This source] has some details on his life (could be weakly argued as SIGCOV considering the topic here) and mentions that he was four-time Soviet rowing champion, three-time European champion, and was honored with a Master of Sport Medal by the USSR, in addition to being a two-time Olympian and Olympic medalist. I feel like in this case we should be able to presume coverage exist and following a strict interpretation of the rules would not help the encyclopedia. Weak Keep. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:50, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

:*The profile on mai.ru is produced by the institute that he graduated from and also cites the Russian wikipedia entry. It contains substantively little more information. The Honored Master of Sport Medal was commonly awarded to athletes and in Kryukov's case he received it, like the other team members, for the Olympic performance. Kges1901 (talk) 16:14, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

::* It doesn't cite the Russian Wikipedia page (am I missing something?). I still hold that we should give some leeway source-wise for an Olympic medalist (WP:NOLY pass) for a foreign country in the offline era, especially since he was a multi-time national champion and multi-time continental champion. According to the WP:NOTABILITY page: {{tq|[This] is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply.}} The reason that sentence is there is so that we do not delete true all-time greats through a strict following of the guidelines, like we'd be doing here. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:06, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

:::*The coverage that exists for non-Gold medalist Soviet olympians is minimal. Kryukov merits [https://www.google.com/books/edition/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%8D%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BF/yusNAQAAIAAJ?hl=ru&gbpv=1&bsq=%D0%BA%D1%80%D1%8E%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%20 an encyclopedia "entry"] in the Soviet 1980 Olympic encyclopedia, which mentions his name, date of birth, and lists him on the roster of the 1952 second place team. This is demonstrably not significant coverage. There is a modern Russian 3-volume Olympic Encyclopedia that doesn't mention him at all, and focuses on non-Russian athletes. The presumption of Olympic notability clearly doesn't hold true for non-gold medalists. We don't even know when he died, so it's unsupported hyperbole to claim that Kryukov is an all time great. Celebrity athletes like Olga Korbut have plenty of articles in Soviet central newspapers, but all that can be found in Izvestiya is a namecheck in the rowing team roster from 1952. That's it, just one namecheck. Kges1901 (talk) 02:33, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

::::* You may be right that Izvestiya doesn't have SIGCOV of Kryukov, but that's one newspaper. One. That's like arguing that someone is non-notable because they don't have a feature in The New York Times. There's probably hundreds if not thousands of newspapers that have existed in Russian history; have you checked any of those? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:16, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

:::::*After searching a database that included Pravda, Izvestiya, and numerous other newspapers and the Moscow city newspapers, that one mention was all I coul d find. In fact, it turns out that many Soviet newspapers from 1952 didn't even have sports sections at all. Kges1901 (talk) 16:18, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per above. Therapyisgood (talk) 17:47, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
• Delete. Non-independent sources do not contribute to notability, and the source above is both non-independent and non-significant. We do not presume SIGCOV exists for athletes when they do not meet NSPORT, and the subject fails SPORTSCRIT #5. JoelleJay (talk) 02:05, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
• : So to presume SIGCOV exists for a sportsperson, they need to have SIGCOV? That makes no sense. NSPORT is a guideline, and it specifically states that it is best treated with common sense, while pointing out that occasional exceptions may apply. The reason it says that is so that true all-time greats for foreign countries in the offline era are not deleted by a very strict following of the guidelines. This is one of the times where an "occasional exception" ought to be made. BeanieFan11 (talk) 02:23, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
• ::Yes, that is exactly what NSPORT does. SPORTSCRIT #5 is required for us to use a subject's meeting a sport-specific criterion to presume that additional SIGCOV exists to meet GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 22:27, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
• Delete. No evidence of SIGCOV. BilledMammal (talk) 02:29, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
• Redirect to Rowing at the 1952 Summer Olympics – Men's eight, his highest Olympic placing, as per WP:ATD-R, absent SIGCOV required for WP:SPORTBASIC 5 (silver medal notwithstanding). ミラP@Miraclepine 01:25, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

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:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.