Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zigetvar Eyalet

:{{la|Zigetvar Eyalet}} – (View AfDView log)

:({{Find sources|Zigetvar Eyalet}})

Unlike Karesi, this Ottoman province is mentioned in several sources so it's pretty certain that it did exist, but it was for just 4 years, in the late 16th century. It was one of about a dozen provinces created in the 16th century that existed for a matter of months, but it's the only one to have its own article. It's unlikely that we'll ever have enough material about it to keep it as an independent page, so I suggest redirecting it to Szigetvár#History. eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:38, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

This (Sigetvar Eyaleti ) was a short-lived eyalet.

Sadık Müfit Bilge, "Macaristan'da Osmanlı Hakimiyetinin ve İdari Teşkilatının Kuruluşu ve Gelişmesi", Ankara Üniversitesi Osmanlı Tarihi Araştırma ve Uygulama Merkezi dergisi, Sayı 11, Ankara Üniversitesi Basımevi, 2000, [http://dergiler.ankara.edu.tr/dergiler/19/1267/14566.pdf p. 68, 75] Takabeg (talk) 01:37, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions. — — alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 01:55, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hungary-related deletion discussions. — — alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 01:55, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Croatia-related deletion discussions. — — alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 01:55, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. — — alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 01:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

• keep — inhabited places, even if defunct, are generally considered notable. — alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 02:01, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

::Just because it's notable doesn't mean that it should have a separate page, especially since there's so little to write about it.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:32, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

• Keep - if it existed it should have its article on Wikipedia. Redirect to Szigetvár is not appropriate because Szigetvár is city, while Zigetvar Eyalet was a province that was governed from that city and that included many other settlements - these two subjects are definitely not same or even similar. We have articles about political entities that existed for much shorter time. I also disagree that "we'll never have enough material about it" - new material about various things is introduced each day and there is no evidence that additional material about this province will not be available to us. PANONIAN 07:47, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

::Abkhazia, Akhaltsikhe, Dagestan, Dmanisi, Ganja, Gori, Győr, Kakheti, Lazistan, Lorri, Moldavia, Nakhichevan, Poti, Sanaa, Shemakha, Szigetvár, Shervan, Tabriz, Tiflis, Wallachia, Yerevan, Zabid. All of these eyalets exist for some months. But out of all of them, Zigetvar is the only one with a separate article about it, the rest are redirects. Panonian, how would you expand this article? Can you prove that it can ever be brought beyond stub level?--eh bien mon prince (talk) 15:45, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

:::comment — this isn't a convincing argument for deletion. see WP:OTHERSTUFF. anyway, if what you wanted was a redirect, you could have just done that by ordinary editing without bringing it here. deletion will destroy the edit history of the page. perhaps you should consider withdrawing your nomination and making the article into a redirect, and then if editors who want to write more about it show up later, they can resurrect it. — alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 15:52, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

:::: Merging is a legitimate result of an AfD, it doesn't have to be deleted - maybe Short-lived Ottoman provinces would be a good idea to have? It could pick up all of those redirects. I picked one at random and found Shemakha Province, Ottoman Empire points to Shamakhi Rayon which doesn't even mention the words "Ottoman province" or "eyalet", so it's a bit unclear as is. A summary article with a proper collection of links and context would be preferable. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 19:25, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

::::: But we should merge this article with what exactly? It is bad idea that article about province is merged with article about city and there is no corresponding modern region that have same or similar territory as this province. There is simply no proper similar article that could be effectively merged with this one. PANONIAN 20:43, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

:::::: Merge it into the more generically named article. Later, other analogous content can be added to that which would not be subject to deletion either. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 21:41, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

• My current inclination is to merge to Kanije Eyalet - but I will admit that this is based on somewhat informed guesswork. The entire four-year period is in the middle of the Long War. and it looks as if the Ottomans were adapting administrative structures along their north-western borders to cope with it. From what is said here and in related articles, it looks as if the Zigetvar eyalet was formed when parts of south-western Hungary and Croatia (formerly in the Budin Eyalet and Bosnia Eyalet) were put under the command of Tiryaki Hasan Pasha, who was apparent based in Zigetvar in the late 1590s. Kanije was apparently captured by the Ottomans in 1600, and Tiryaki Hasan Pasha then made that his base. At which point, presumably, the administrative centre and the name of the eyalet were changed - but we are looking at two successive stages of the same administrative division. Can anyone come up with evidence from reliable sources for (or against) this? PWilkinson (talk) 00:14, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

::Well, that might be good proposal. According to older version of map from Euratlas site that show situation in 1600, Zigetvar eyalet had more-less same borders as Kanije eyalet (which is shown in newer version of same map - I have both map versions in my computer). This indeed might be same eyalet that changed name. PANONIAN 04:56, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

• Keep per Panonian's rationale. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 05:34, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
• redirect - to a line in Szigetvár#History - Off2riorob (talk) 09:58, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
• Keep per Panonian. This is not destined to be a long article, but not every article needs to be long. Lagrange613 (talk) 00:32, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.