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Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 August 21#Sports-related flops

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= August 21 =

==Sub-cats of [[:Category:Writers by genre]]==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} not tagged, and keep anyway --Kbdank71 14:05, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Many of these seem to have been recently created (and poorly named) by Wax Tablet, who I'm sure means well but uses incorrect case and vague terms. Can someone on the Welcome Wagon greet him and steer him straight?? ♥ Her Pegship♥ 23:30, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

:Update: I left Waxy a note. If I don't hear anything in a week or so, I will examine the sub-cats for possible cfd candidates. ♥ Her Pegship♥ 04:02, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

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== Category:Wikipedian pirates ==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} rename/merge as nominated --Kbdank71 14:21, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

:Category:Wikipedian pirates to :Category:Wikipedians interested in pirates

  • I realize this category was recently renamed, but I rathaaaaarr (uh, sorry about that) doubt that we have so many buccaneers amongst us. On the other hand, it is a silly category, so maybe we would be better off deleting it. - EurekaLott 21:33, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Rename - I think that this was originally intended to be a joke category, in which case I would normally recommend deleting it, but I think it is useful if it is renamed as you proposed. --Cswrye 19:10, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Rename The category could have a viable use if renamed as suggested, while still maintaining a bit of fun for those who wish to keep it. -- Jade Keira 18:13, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

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== Category:Rajasthani freedom fighters ==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} rename/merge as nominated --Kbdank71 14:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

:Category:Rajasthani freedom fighters to :Category:Rajasthani Indian independence activists

  • Rename, This seems to be what the category is for. It seems to be conventional in India to call independence activists "freedom fighters" but it is no less POV for that. Some of them were more concerned to win power for their own group than to increase "freedom" and indeed while some were Ghandi-like figures others were extremists who were determined to reduce "freedom". Chicheley 20:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Rename per POV concerns. --Dhartung | Talk 00:14, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Rename per nom. Osomec 10:50, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

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==Wikipedians by location==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} rename/merge as nominated --Kbdank71 13:49, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Most of the categories in this ubercategory are “Wikipedians in X”, so this attempts to sync those up. An exception is made for those that represent birthplace but not residence, all of which make more sense in :category:Wikipedians by ethnicity. If all the category members say they live in the place listed, though, it becomes a "Wikipedians in X" category. (To the Texans who objected before I could post the nomination, please note the change to :category:Wikipedians born in Texas. If this is still not satisfactory, please post to that effect.)--Mike Selinker 18:05, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Rename all. I've long thought there need to be consistent categories for those who live in a place and those who were born in a place. This one seems sensible to me. I especially like that it avoids the ambiguity inherent in saying that someone's "from" a place. Jay Maynard 18:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Rename all per nom but rename :Category:Andhra Wikipedians to :Category:Wikipedians in Andhra Pradesh as that's the full name of the Indian state. --musicpvm 19:00, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Fixed. I should have caught that myself. Thanks.--Mike Selinker 19:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Rename all although I only think that "person in X" is appropriate if that person is categorizing themselves. "From" is ambiguous but someone's nativity is rarely as notable as their place of residence. --Dhartung | Talk 00:16, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose I'm an Indian administrator, but I live in Canada. Why the need to change the names of the categories? User:DaGizza is "in" Australia. User:Ganeshk is "in" California. Issues requiring administrative attention on articles relevant to India frequently come up; I've been approached a number of times by editors who've clicked on the Category to find someone to resolve a dispute. Don't think "born in" is a solution either for this one. -- Samir धर्म 02:06, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • In retrospect, this is easily dealt with by moving the Indian administrator category to an Wikipedians by ethnicity one. -- Samir धर्म 02:09, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I may have erred in assuming that these administrator categories were location-based rather than ethnicity-based. I've fixed them to "(ethnicity) Wikipedia adminstrators" and we'll see how that flies.--Mike Selinker 02:49, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • My objection is gone then :) -- Samir धर्म 11:04, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

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==Wikipedians by ethnicity==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} rename/merge as nominated --Kbdank71 14:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Unlike those above, these are more appropriately in the ethnicity categories. Some reassortment may occur.--Mike Selinker 18:05, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

:Comment: "Macedonian Wikipedians" might raise trouble. See Macedonia (terminology). It is not as specific as "Republic of Macedonia", which clearly differentiates between the Greek region and the Slavic country. Picaroon9288|ta co 18:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

::Think I'll leave it where it was, then. I withdrew it from here and posted a slightly different version to the nomination above.--Mike Selinker 18:50, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

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== Category:Wikipedians from Texas ==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} void. Mike Selinker is apparently preparing a mass nomination of some kind. Discussion can begin once he posts it. ×Meegs 17:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

{{lc|Wikipedians from Texas}}

  • Keep. I am not IN Texas, I am FROM Texas (and it's important to me to let people know I'm originally from Texas -- it explains a lot about me, thank you very much). If you wanted to eliminate redundant location categories, it would be better to standardize on the more inclusive FROM which can include those of us who are from a location but can not say we are still IN the location. Likewise, those who are in the location can still say they are from the location. Think. In this era of mobility, it doesn't make sense for you to insist that users be in a location to claim it as a homeland. --Renice 14:15, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. That's right, you're not from Texas, but Texas wants you anyway.--M@rēino 15:06, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. I'm originally from Texas, but I currently live in Minnesota. The two are different, and each benefits the encyclopedia in its own way. The distinction is important, as being born and raised in Texas shapes a person even though they may live elsewhere. FWIW, I think there should be "from" and "in" categories wherever there is a category, in general. While I'm here, where's the nominator and his rationale for deleting the category? Jay Maynard 15:48, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. When I was a small child and lived in San Francisco and later in the Seattle/Tacoma area, I always told people I was from Texas. Obv at that time I wasn't in Texas at that time period, yet that never kept me from actually being from The Great State Of. It is semantically impossible to make in = from, so I insist we keep the from distinction alive. (Krushsister 15:58, 21 August 2006 (UTC))
  • Keep Mos Def. Foster2008 00:55, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Cool your jets, guys. I'm in progress on all the categories of :category:Wikipedians by location. This nomination hasn't even been listed yet, and it won't be as :category:Wikipedians in Texas. So please relax.--Mike Selinker 16:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Then perhaps the notice on the category page should be reworded. --Renice 16:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • As it's formatted right now, the nomination is to delete. If you want to nominate for a name change, you have to list the proposed new name in the header. --M@rēino 16:31, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

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== Category:British neo-Nazi terrorists ==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} delete --Kbdank71 14:01, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

{{lc|British neo-Nazi terrorists}}

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== Category:Virginia cities ==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} cat redirect --Kbdank71 14:00, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

{{lc|Virginia cities}}

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== Category:Virginia counties ==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} no consensus --Kbdank71 13:58, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

:Category:Virginia counties to :Category:Counties in Virginia

  • Rename, Puts name in line with similar categories. SchuminWeb (Talk) 10:29, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Either rename all the categories in :Category:Counties of the United States or leave them alone, but don't nominate just one of them. - EurekaLott 11:02, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppese, per naming convention of :Category:Counties of the United States. -- ProveIt (talk) 13:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose, as per Proveit's point above. It looked like all the other states are titled "State counties", not "Counties in State". Dugwiki 16:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Rename :Category:Counties of Virginia per the over-riding convention for subdivisions. Osomec 10:52, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I would support a proposal for a mass rename of members of :Category:Counties of the United States, but I think changing just one to be different from the others would be a mistake. -- ProveIt (talk) 16:24, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Follows the current standard. Changing just one sub category to be out of line with all of the others should not be allowed. If there is a better name for this category, then the same logic would apply for all of the others and a new nomination for changing all of the state sub categories should be made. Vegaswikian 22:12, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Rename to :Category:Counties of Virgina per (sub)divisions convention above. David Kernow 23:17, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Rename to :Category:Counties of Virgina. It might prompt someone to initiate the bulk renaming that is required. Nathan Mercer 10:30, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

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==[[:Category:Wikipedians interested in Ancient Egypt]] to [[:Category:Wikipedians interested in ancient Egypt]]==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} no consensus --Kbdank71 13:54, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Moved from speedy. the wub "?!" 09:56, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

  • :category:Wikipedians interested in Ancient Egypt to :category:Wikipedians interested in ancient Egypt Caps. --Mike Selinker 04:17, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose. It is correct as it is. Sumahoy 18:25, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • The article History of ancient Egypt says otherwise.--Mike Selinker 19:12, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Rename per nom - As Mike Selinker pointed out, both History of ancient Egypt and Ancient Egypt do not capitalize "ancient" except at the beginning of a sentence (eg. in Ancient Egypt, there is a sentence that begins "The civilization of ancient Egypt...."). So it appears that capitalizing "ancient" is not correct, judging by similar Wiki articles. Dugwiki 16:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose Wikipedia uses geeky capitalisation preferences and is not a credible source. Most academic sites on the web use a capital A. Golfcam 18:32, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • reply' - I'm not sure about "geeky", but when I do an ask.com search for "ancient Egypt" I see articles that spell it both ways: some with the lower case "a", and some with an uppercase "A". For example, [http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6989 Menagerie of mummies unwraps ancient Egypt], an article on NewScientist.com spell it with "a". [http://www.ancient-egypt.org/ The Ancient Egypt Site], though, spells it with "A". So it's not immediately clear which spelling is correct. However, whichever way the consensus decides is correct, I'd recommend that the spelling be standardized that way in Wiki. So if the consensus is to use lower case "a", then all the articles and categories should do the same. If consensus is "A", then all the articles and categories should use that. Spelling should be consistent if possible. Dugwiki 15:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

:Rename as per nom. Ancient is only an adjective and it is the Wikipedia convention to have an adjective in a title starting lower case unless it is the first word. Wikipedia is not geeky as such: it simply doesn't follow newspaper headline syndrome. --BlackJack | talk page 15:09, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Rename while I prefer title case, myself Wikipedia doesn't and the category should match the article. Eluchil404 19:49, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose I've always thought of it as having a capital "A". Nathan Mercer 10:31, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

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== Category:American Islamist terrorists ==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} delete --Kbdank71 13:51, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

{{lc|American Islamist terrorists}}

  • Delete. This category is not consistent with the current scheme of categorizing terrorists by nationality. It duplicates already existing data by combining disparate data sets: Muslims and Criminals. These are separate categories and should not be mixed, and according to the current scheme are separated by the addition of the appropriate terrorist group cats (which are categorized by ideology), and in cases where no group exists, by the addition of :Category:Islamists and/or a terrorist incident cat. All the members of this category are either explicit or implicit members of :Category:Al-Qaeda members, and that category is already a member of :Category:Islamist groups (at the top :Category:Al-Qaeda) so no new information is conveyed through this category. The creator of this category is also the same editor who created :Category:British Islamist terrorists. For those unfamiliar with how terrorists are categorized, we do not categorize by religion. —Viriditas | Talk 09:37, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete as per Viriditas. --Leifern 13:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per Viriditas. Jayjg (talk) 15:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Islamist and Muslim are not the same. Nathan Mercer 10:32, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

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== Mulatto actors/actresses ==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} speedy delete. —freak([{{fullurl:user talk:freakofnurture|action=edit§ion=new}} talk]) 23:47, Aug. 21, 2006 (UTC)

{{lc|Mulatto Actors}}

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== Sports-related flops ==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} delete --Kbdank71 13:48, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

{{lc|Sports-related flops}}

The cat's definition is inherently subjective and there's already been some discussion of its problems on the talk page. Labeling a person, league, or event as "a flop" is serious and requires context and explanation that categories do not make possible. Lists along these lines have been deleted in the past too (e.g. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of NFL Draft busts). Delete. ×Meegs 08:21, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete As Meegs well observes, even lists of flops have been (quite properly, IMHO) disfavored; a category that will almost surely comprise some articles for which internal citations to a flop designation do not exist is, it follows, wholly unencyclopedic. Joe 17:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. Golfcam 18:32, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete as POV and poorly-named before someone adds Dick Fosbury. Grutness...wha? 00:51, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. That category name is a flop. (Bonus points for the Fosbury reference, though.)--Mike Selinker 04:56, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

:*Comment And, for that matter, in view of his propensity for falling in the lane should another player even breathe on him, perhaps Dirk Nowitzki belongs... Joe 15:48, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete due to potential for POV and anecdotes. --BlackJack | talk page 15:11, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. Twittenham 23:41, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. — Dale Arnett 07:09, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

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==Category:Websites critical of Islam==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} delete --Kbdank71 13:46, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

{{lc|Websites critical of Islam}} is a thinly veiled hitlist that does not make a distinction between Islam vs. Islamism. In any case it should not be a subcat of :Category:Religious websites.

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== Category:1900s in the United Kingdom ==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} not tagged, relisted [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_August_31#Category:1900s_in_the_United_Kingdom here] --Kbdank71 13:39, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

:Category:1900s in the United Kingdom to :Category:20th century in the United Kingdom

  • Rename, 1900s refers to a decade but this category contains a century worth of years. Tim! 06:49, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Rename -whoops! this is (kind of) my fault. I was just copying the pattern set by the Australian cats, eg :Category:1900s in Australia, so we had better rename all of these:

:*:Category:1700s in Australia to :Category:18th century in Australia

:*:Category:1800s in Australia to :Category:19th century in Australia

:*:Category:1900s in Australia to :Category:20th century in Australia

:*:Category:2000s in Australia to :Category:21st century in Australia

:*:Category:1800s in the United Kingdom to :Category:19th century in the United Kingdom

:*:Category:1900s in the United Kingdom to :Category:20th century in the United Kingdom

:*:Category:2000s in the United Kingdom to :Category:21st century in the United Kingdom

:*:Category:1800s in Scotland to :Category:19th century in Scotland

:*:Category:1900s in Scotland to :Category:20th century in Scotland

:*:Category:2000s in Scotland to :Category:21st century in Scotland

:*:Category:1900s in England to :Category:20th century in England

:*:Category:2000s in England to :Category:21st century in England

:*:Category:1900s in Wales to :Category:20th century in Wales

:*:Category:2000s in Wales to :Category:21st century in Wales

:*:Category:1900s in Northern Ireland to :Category:20th century in Northern Ireland

:*:Category:2000s in Northern Ireland to :Category:21st century in Northern Ireland

:--Mais oui! 15:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Rename both the nominated cat and those which Mais oui! lists, for which I don't think {{tl|cfr}} tagging to be necessary, inasmuch as the proper disposition seems rather clear. Joe 17:42, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Rename all per above. David Kernow 22:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Rename all --BlackJack | talk page 10:12, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Rename all per nom. Nathan Mercer 10:32, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

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== Category:Sega locations ==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} delete --Kbdank71 13:27, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

{{lc|Sega locations}}

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==rename Category:Canadian armoured fighting vehicles, Category:World War II Canadian armoured fighting vehicles==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} rename/merge as nominated --Kbdank71 13:30, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

rename "{{lc|Canadian armoured fighting vehicles}}" --> "{{lc|Armoured fighting vehicles of Canada}}" and

rename "{{lc|World War II Canadian armoured fighting vehicles}}" --> "{{lc|World War II armoured fighting vehicles of Canada}}"

to catch armoured fighting vehicles used by the Canadian Army, not just those designed and/or built in Canada. Mike McGregor (Can) 06:05, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

  • rename per nom. I'm not too sure if I listed this right, if some one could make any needed changes and drop me a line on my talk page, it would help me learn more about the 'pedia! Mike McGregor (Can) 06:09, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Support —Michael Z. 2006-08-21 06:25 Z
  • Support, because the vehicles themselves are not Canadian. Deon Steyn 15:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • rename per nom. --BlackJack | talk page 17:42, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

:: Can I just go ahead and do this? or does an admin need to close the debate and make the move? Mike McGregor (Can) 04:16, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

::: The latter to keep the process kosher/halal/etc, I believe... Regards, David Kernow 16:26, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

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== Category:The Ultra-Men ==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} delete --Kbdank71 13:25, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

{{lc|The Ultra-Men}}

  • Delete, They are a very non-notable group (of all 3 members), a category isn't needed for it. RobJ1981 04:21, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. I would also delete the Ultra-Men article if it can't be developed. --BlackJack | talk page 17:41, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. -- Jade Keira 18:33, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

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== Category:Amalgam Comics superhero teams ==

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The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} keep --Kbdank71 13:23, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

{{lc|Amalgam Comics superhero teams}}

  • Delete, Amalgam was a short lived joint effort by Marvel+DC... it really doesn't need categories (just for the sake of categorizing things). RobJ1981 04:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. Yes it does, and for exactly that reason. These teams and other articles are neither DC or Marvel, so they need a publisher category. And once in that category, they should be categorized in the same way the DC and Marvel categories are kept.--Mike Selinker 07:02, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Was Amalgam an actual publisher, or was it simply the label used by Marvel & DC in a joint publishing effort? If it was just a label and not an actual publishing company, would it make more sense to instead simply list Amalgam comics under both Marvel and DC simultaneously? Dugwiki 16:22, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

:It was a label, not a company. There is other Amalgam categories that really don't need to exist as well. The Amalgam series went 24 issues, and that's it. It simply doesn't need numerous categories, when it's just a label and not even a full on company. RobJ1981 20:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

::I don't think a category like :category:Marvel Comics superheroes makes sense if it contains characters that never appeared in Marvel continuity, and the Amalgam characters didn't. So I'd leave them separate.--Mike Selinker 04:53, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I think continuity is a red herring. Marvel, for example, has multiple continuities, some longer lived than others, as well as one-shots. Rather, I think the definition of what constitutes a Marvel Comics character is who created that character and owns the copyright. For example, about 25 years ago there was a Spiderman/Superman team-up one-shot comic. But even though those characters appeared in the same comic book, Marvel created Spiderman and owns the copyright. Spiderman's use was only licensed for that book, so he didn't suddenly become a DC character simply by appearing next to Superman.

:::The same is true of Amalgam characters. The real question is who owns the rights for the characters that appeared in Amalgam stories? If Wolverine appeared in Amalgam, for example, he would still be a Marvel character. And if Amalgam includes a brand new character that is jointly owned by both Marvel and DC, then it would appear under both Marvel characters and DC characters simultaneously.

:::So to sum up, if Amalagam isn't a publisher and doesn't actually own any rights for any of the characters, then those characters should instead be listed under either Marvel or DC, whichever owns the rights. If both jointly own the rights, list the character under both. Dugwiki 15:57, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

::::But why would you want to mix the Amalgam characters in with the mainstream characters? Take a look at the :category:Watchmen. It wouldn't make sense to just drop those characters into :category:DC Comics superheroes, right? It's a self-contained universe, and so is Amalgam. I don't have a problem with dropping it one level (putting the main Amalgam category under DC and under Marvel), but I don't think it's a good idea to mix them right in with Superman and Spider-Man.--Mike Selinker 01:55, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

:::::Just to clarify, all I said was that characters should be listed under the publisher that owns them. That can include listing all the characters in a subcategory under that publisher's characters. For example, :Category:Watchmen appears as a subcategory of :Category:DC Comics superheroes because the rights to all of the characters in the Watchmen belong to DC.

:::::The main issue with :Category:Amalgam characters is that it might include some characters that are Marvel properties, and others that are DC properties. If so then you can't simply list that category as a subcategory of Marvel character, because not all of them are. Rather, you would want to list the characters under both "Amalgam characters" (indicating the continuity they appear in) and either Marvel characters or DC characters or both (indicating the actual publisher). Dugwiki 22:22, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

== Category:SpongeBob SquarePants fans ==

:The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} rename/merge as nominated --Kbdank71 13:20, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

{{lc|SpongeBob SquarePants fans}}

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