Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 August 2#Category:Washouts

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Bridge disasters involving open moveable bridges. There is a consensus that the current category name is inadequate, but no agreement on any single alternative. I have selected the most popular title of the various options discussed. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:55, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

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:* Propose renaming :Category:Falling from bridges to :Category:Bridge disasters caused by open drawbridges

:Nominator's rationale: After removing two articles that fit other existing subcategories of :Category:Bridge disasters by cause, all remaining articles are "ran through an open drawbridge and fell off" accidents. I'm more than welcoming of better "caused by foo" title suggestions. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:58, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• Drawbridge seems to be associated more with medieval constructions. Moveable bridge seems to be the preferred term for the kinds of bridges referred to in this category, and should therefore be reflected in the rename, I think. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 01:44, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
• At least over here, "Drawbridge" is by far the WP:COMMONNAME - "movable bridge" is never used, at least outside of technical jargon. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
• Rename as proposed, and if doing so, be sure to add Claiborne Avenue Bridge to the category, as one of its three disasters was a car driving over. Ego White Tray (talk) 02:42, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
• comment where is it said that this category only includes disaters from open bridges? In any case, :Moveable bridges makes clear that :Drawbridges are only one kind of moveable bridge and thus cannot be used here. Hmains (talk) 17:02, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
• It's not said. It's just that when all miscategorised articles were removed and placed in their proper categories, that is all that was left in it. And for each and every one of the "types of moving bridges" listed there, except Transporter bridge and Jet bridge, the WP:COMMONNAME is "Drawbridge". That said, I would not object to :Category:Bridge disasters caused by open moving bridges. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 04:32, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
• That notwithstanding, the limitation by that definition seems to exclude a lot of accidents that happen and that should go into such a category. What about suicides by jumping off bridges? Those could also be considered "falls". __meco (talk) 08:10, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
• But those were not in this category, and, tragic though they are, they are not bridge disasters, which is what the parent category of this is (:Category:Bridge disasters by cause, to be precise) - they would go in :Category:Suicides by jumping from a height‎. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 17:08, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
• Sure, I just looked at the name of the nominated category without considering the context. __meco (talk) 17:56, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
• No problem! {{P}} There might be a call for :Category:Suicides by bridge jumping as a subcat of that last category mentioned above, btw - that might be worth looking in to... - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 18:51, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
• rename to :Category:Bridge disasters caused by open moveable bridges as inclusive without need for further breakout and with no implication that the bridge is necessarily in motion when the disaster occurs. Hmains (talk) 06:06, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
• Rename to :Category:Accidental falling from bridges -- This would fit all five, while excluding suicides (as non-accidental). We currently have 5 articles: one involves a lift bridge; two swing bridges; one a derailment on a high bridge, from which people fell; and finally a tug boat hitting a pier, causing two cars to fall off. Hmains's suggestion only fits 3 of these. The nom strictly only fits the first. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:53, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
• Strongly oppose this suggestion - note that the parent category is :Category:Bridge disasters by cause, which has its subcatgories using the "Bridge disasters caused by foo" format. :Category:Bridge disasters caused by falls might work though (since WP:COMMONSENSE states that bridge suicides, while tragic, are not "bridge disasters). - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:35, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
• Rename to :Category:Bridge disasters caused by falls.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:07, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
• Don't know. While the current name may have problems, I'm not sure if the proposed alternatives do much better. :Category:Bridge disasters caused by falls is ambiguous since it could be about sections, or all, of the bridge falling. :Category:Accidental falling from bridges fails for the tug boat, and maybe other cases, since for me, these are not falls but rather being thrown from the structure. :Category:Bridge disasters caused by open moveable bridges seems possible but open bridges do not cause accidents. Something else was the cause and the open bridge was then accessible and the path for falling off of the bridge. Given that the three articles on accidents all appear to be the result of ignoring stop signals, that would seem to be the cause. So :Category:Bridge disasters caused by failure to obey signal devices could be better. Also, are these bridge disasters? Again these three involved trains and signalling and not the bridges per say (The bridges were not the cause). Maybe :Category:Train disasters caused by failure to obey signal devices would be a better choice. I could also support a Delete with a future recreation of something. Vegaswikian (talk) 18:50, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
• Well, a lot of the "bridge disaster"-categorised articles could be considered train/car/boat/etc. disasters. Applying the WP:TNT might well be the best solution... - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:31, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
• What a mess - :Category:Bridge disasters involving open moveable bridges seems to be the closest thing to dealing with all the concerns above, but with how varied the grouping is, I do think after reading the above that listification would probably be the best route. Allowing to explain each of the events clearly, something not possible in categories. - jc37 08:30, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
• Note there are 4 articles about disasters, and then one on a railway station that is connected with the disaster. This fact may show that this would be better as a list since often the disaster will not merit its own article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:49, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: split to :Category:Bridges destroyed by scour and :Category:Bridge disasters caused by scour damage. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:01, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

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:* Propose renaming :Category:Washouts to :Category:Bridge disasters caused by scour

:Nominator's rationale: Proposed name would match the format of (essentially) all other subcategories of :Category:Bridge disasters by cause, which is the only parent cat, and would better match Bridge scour#Bridge disasters caused by scour, the list of accidents of this sort. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:48, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• Comment I'd prefer bridge disasters caused by washouts, rather than the word "scour" which a lot of our readers are not familiar with. Ego White Tray (talk) 02:38, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
• Support/subcategorize since washouts happen on transport corridors that are not bridges. Indeed, most washouts have nothing to do with bridges. Supercategorize with the current category name and move washout to it. There should be articles on washouts that are not bridge disasters around, since there have been several severe ones. -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) 05:25, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
• rename per nom. In British English, washout more usually means what is described at Rainout (sports) so the category is ambiguous and confusing to some of us. Tim! (talk) 05:52, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
• Rename but not as nom. Unfortunately, Bridge failure is a redirect to a short sction in Bridge. Bridge scour is said to be one of three causes of bridge failure, but what the others are is uncelar. I am not convinced that everything in the present category is actually about scouring. Another reason for a bridge to fail in a flood is the build up of debris against it, so that the bridge dams up water behind it. How about :Category:Bridge disasters caused by flood? If adopted, a purge may be need of failures due to scour unrelated to floods. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:05, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
• I checked - all the disasters included in the category were caused by scour-caused washouts. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:36, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose as proposed. This category is used for both bridges destroyed as a result scouring and for major accidents resulting from bridges having been damaged by scour. I think these two should be split out, possibility to :Category:Bridges destroyed by scour and :Category:Disasters caused by bridges damaged by scour. I know that the latter is a bit longer, but it does make the purpose of the category clear. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:09, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
• Support split, but the second category should be :Category:Bridge disasters caused by scour damage because the tree is "Bridge disasters caused by foo". - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:33, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: {{Relisted}} at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 August 27. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 13:10, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Electro rock to :Category:Electro rock music groups

:Nominator's rationale: Rename. Of the 25 entries in this category 23 are groups playing this music genre. The remaining two are an album and an individual musician. __meco (talk) 16:04, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• Keep existing :Category:Electro rock and create :Category:Electro rock groups; the current category is in two parent by-genre categories and should be kept as an appropriate parent cat for the -groups subcat. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 06:58, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: keep. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:32, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Lists of events by place to :Category:Lists of events by venue

:Nominator's rationale: Place is much too broad a term for this category, which seems devoted to lists of events by venue. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 13:39, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose events don't all have venues, they all have one or more locations. And if you consider "place" too broad a term to use, then what of "event" ? Exactly how does the bombing of Dresden (an event) have a venue? Or the sinking of the Titanic (another event) ; I am aware these two examples are not currently categorized in this category tree. -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) 06:02, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Rename to :Category:Neoclassical Dark Wave musical groups. Timrollpickering (talk) 00:51, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Neoclassical (Dark Wave) to :Category:Neoclassical (Dark Wave) musical groups

:Nominator's rationale: Rename. This is a musical genre. All articles, bar the eponymous main article are bands which play this genre. __meco (talk) 12:32, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• Given that the main article is Neoclassical Dark Wave, why do we need parentheses in the category name at all? Shawn in Montreal (talk) 17:44, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

::Actually, I'm unfamiliar with this music so I wouldn't know what are common names for this genre. __meco (talk) 19:01, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

:::Oh, me too. But I think we can't go too wrong modeling the name after main article, and following our general guidelines when it comes to unnecessary use of parentheses in titles. In fact, I see it matches criterion C2D at WP:CFDS and I think it could even be speedily renamed per my suggestion, therefore. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 19:35, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• Speedy rename C2D to :Category:Neoclassical Dark Wave musical groups. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:01, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
• Support The Bushranger -- to match main article. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:06, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Speedy rename C2C/C2D. Timrollpickering (talk) 00:15, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

: Propose renaming

• :Category:Cricket at the South Pacific Games to :Category:Cricket at the Pacific Games
• :Category:Football at South Pacific Games to :Category:Football at the Pacific Games

:Nominator's rationale: The games title was changed from “South Pacific” to “Pacific” in 2007 according to 2007 Pacific Games, and the parent category is now :Category:Pacific Games. Hhence it would also be appropriate to rename the articles in :Category:2007 Pacific Games. Hugo999 (talk) 11:05, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• Rename non-controversial technicality. Harrias ^talk 10:29, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Rename to :Category:Rail transport modellers. Timrollpickering (talk) 00:35, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:People in rail transport modelling to :Category:Rail transport modellers

:Nominator's rationale: The proposed name here would better fit how these people would be decribed normally, and also fits the main article for the category, List of rail transport modellers. An alternative would be a rename to :Category:Model railroaders, which would actually be even better per WP:COMMONNAME. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:53, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• Rename I tend to prefer the latter name but I suspect there's some reasons for the odd name of the lsit which we'll hear about shortly. Mangoe (talk) 17:38, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
• Support :Category:Rail transport modellers: Railroads only exist in USA. In most other places we have railways. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:08, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
• I'm pretty sure that even in England though, they're "model railroaders", not "model railwayers" {{P|3}}. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 06:59, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
• Rename however the railraod/railway issue is not relevant to either name.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:16, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering (talk) 00:37, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:People related to wine to :Category:People associated with wine

:Nominator's rationale: Contested speedy, as part of a group of "association" renamings proposed. This one is the most needful of renaming (how is a person "related" to wine? That'd be one heck of a crossbreed!). Proposed name fits the new tree at :Category:People associated with beverages, and fits the apparant majority, and most logical format, of subcategories of :Category:People by association, which it formerly was under. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:48, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. Looks like a better name. I did not find it when I created this cat many years ago. --Stefan ^talk 03:41, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
• Rename or delete. Renaming rationale makes sense. I think, however, this category can safely be deleted. There are no articles in it, and grouping the sub-categories this way seems redundant. ~Amatulić (talk) 13:41, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Double upmerge. Timrollpickering (talk) 00:38, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Mayors of Boca Raton, Florida to :Category:People from Boca Raton, Florida

:* Propose renaming :Category:Mayors of Altamonte Springs, Florida to :Category:People from Altamonte Springs, Florida

:* Propose merging :Category:Mayors of Largo, Florida to :Category:People from Largo, Florida

:Nominator's rationale: These are one- or two-person categories for mayors of comparitively small cities; they are unlikely to be expanded much as mayors of cities of the size and importance of these rarely pass the notability threshold. The proposed target of the Altamonte Springs category does have reasonable chance of expansion due to the size of the town. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:27, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• Merge/rename per nom, and also merge to :Category:Mayors of places in Florida, the nominated categories' other parent. - Eureka Lott 02:48, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
• Merge/rename per nominator...William 14:43, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
• Merge as Eureka Lott -- local WP:POLITICIANs are generally NN, so that we should only be having articles for those notable for other reasons. Articles get created at election time, but they need to be discouraged. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:11, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
• Comment I created a People from Altamonte Springs category. It currently has six people in it. The population of AS is over 40,000 and as The Bushranger wrote above, it does have a reasonable chance of being expanded in the future....William 16:25, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
• Keep - Makes it easier to find specific officeholders, especially for medium sized cities like Boca Raton. Scanlan (talk) 04:08, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
• WP:ITSUSEFUL, then? - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 04:22, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Upmerge to :Category:Cities and towns in Piedmont. Timrollpickering (talk) 00:55, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Andorno Micca}}

:Nominator's rationale: Delete. Category about a little Italian village, Andorno Micca, containing only one article. Redundant and WP:SMALLCAT. Dэя-Бøяg 01:14, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• Upmerge to :Category:Cities and towns in Piedmont. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:32, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
• Upmerge per The Bushranger...William 16:11, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: split to :Category:Public domain music images and :Category:Public domain music files. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:05, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

:::PS. When I came to implement the split, I found that there was no {{cl|Public domain audio files}}, so I created that instead of {{cl|Public domain audio files}}. I created the template {{tl|PD-audio}} to populate it, and moved {{tl|PD-music}} to the more specific title {{tl|PD-music-image}}.

:::All files have now been re-tagged. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:07, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

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:* Propose renaming :Category:Public domain music images to :Category:Public domain music files

:Nominator's rationale: While this category initially may have been intended for images of music, it's currently being used for audio files as much as image files. We should rename the category to better reflect its contents. - Eureka Lott 00:43, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• Supercategorize and resort add a parent category under the proposed name, move the audio files into the parent. -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) 05:18, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
• That may prove difficult, as the category is populated by the use of {{tl|PD-music}}. - Eureka Lott 16:47, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
• Should be easy enough, add a "|type= image" to it and then use a parserfunction to select the category. -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:33, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
• Split/etc. per the suggestion by the IP above (Any expert template coders about? : ) - jc37 08:24, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
• New coding available at: Template talk:PD-music/sandbox -- 76.65.131.248 (talk) 09:02, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
• Split Per the IP suggestion and jc37. It makes sense. Hasteur (talk) 17:43, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:14, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Wellsville, Kansas to :Category:People from Franklin County, Kansas

:Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. Small town and its category has just three people ...William 00:37, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Oculi (talk) 13:26, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

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