Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 January 22

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 07:09, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Female record producers}}

:Nominator's rationale: WP:Overcategorization; there is already :Category:Record producers, which can be used for both male and female subjects. Having both is redundant. Snuggums (talk / edits) 23:24, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

• Comment Since so few of the first names in this tree seem to be female, this intersection must still be theoretically defining. In practice though, I'm concerned though that all three of the current people in the category (Beyoncé, Sia Furler, Alanis Morissette) are singers who are not well known for producing records. RevelationDirect (talk) 11:51, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

:*While being a record producer can be defining for both males and females, I'm saying we only need the singular gender-neutral "Record producers" category for both. I do agree though that it is problematic how it is being used for women not particularly known for producing records. Snuggums (talk / edits)

::* Delete for Now Although I think this category might have the potential to be worthwhile, it's not today. RevelationDirect (talk) 03:14, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

• Per WP:EGRS, we do not automatically create gendered subcategories for every single occupational category that exists in the realm of human career endeavour — we create them only where gender has a substantive relationship to the topic: "women writers" categories are valid, for example, because "literature by women" is a subject of academic study as a thing in its own right; "sportswomen" categories are valid because with exceedingly rare exceptions men and women in sports don't directly compete against each other, but instead each participate almost exclusively in their own separate single-gender competitions. But there are many other categories where gender is not germane to the grouping, and we accordingly don't create gendered subcategories for those occupations. I'm not aware of any substantive or encyclopedic relationship between gender and record production — there is, for example, no academic literature or research that I'm aware of on the question of whether women produce records in a different way than men do, nor are "records produced by women" treated by real-world sources as a distinct thing from "records produced by men" (the gender of the performer plays a role in how the music is contextualized and marketed, sure, but not the gender of the producer.) So there's just not a lot of value added here. Delete. Bearcat (talk) 02:30, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
• Question Do women perform significantly differently from men in this profession? It think not. For Writers and Performers gender may be significant, but not producers. If you agree, Merge back to :Category:Record producers. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:48, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
• Merge to :Category:Record producers no reliable sources that record producers perform differently by sex (or pretty much anything else)... Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:53, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
• Keep Record producers is an oddly divided category, but has multiple ways it is devided. Just a quick search showed up this article that deals with female record producers [http://cyberprmusic.com/51-female-entrepreneurs/]. The fact that the producers of most music, but especially hip hop, are overwhelmingly male, comes up a lot in discussions about it being mysoginistic. Clearly we could write articles on this topic that are more than just lists.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:31, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
• Comment since record producers are divided by nationality and genre, we should not merge to the general category. I have found Estelle Axton who is known for being a record producer, not a music performer, and probably will find others.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:33, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
• Comment I have added a lot of new people, some of whom like Wilma Cozart Fine are only notable as record producers.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:07, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:EGRS; no particular distinction made in the record production literature between women and men. Replace every instance of :Category:Female record producers with :Category:Record producers. Binksternet (talk) 22:58, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
• Delete, don't merge per Johnpacklambert. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:24, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
• Keep Well-populated category on an interesting minority of producers. Dimadick (talk) 20:07, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

:*WP:INTERESTING is not in itself a valid reason for retaining something. Snuggums (talk / edits) 22:03, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Double upmerge all, delete container categories. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 21:05, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

:* Propose merge :Category:31 BC establishments to :Category:30s BC establishments and :Category:31 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:35 BC establishments to :Category:30s BC establishments and :Category:35 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:37 BC establishments to :Category:30s BC establishments and :Category:37 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:38 BC establishments to :Category:30s BC establishments and :Category:38 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:41 BC establishments to :Category:40s BC establishments and :Category:41 BC

{{cot|rest of merge}}

:* Propose merge :Category:43 BC establishments to :Category:40s BC establishments and :Category:43 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:48 BC establishments to :Category:40s BC establishments and :Category:48 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:40s BC establishments in the Roman Republic to :Category:40s BC establishments and :Category:1st-century BC establishments in the Roman Republic

:* Propose merge :Category:50 BC establishments to :Category:50s BC establishments and :Category:50 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:52 BC establishments to :Category:50s BC establishments and :Category:52 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:57 BC establishments to :Category:50s BC establishments and :Category:57 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:57 BC establishments in Asia to :Category:50s BC establishments in Asia and :Category:57 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:50s BC establishments in the Roman Republic to :Category:50s BC establishments and :Category:1st-century BC establishments in the Roman Republic

:* Propose merge :Category:58 BC establishments to :Category:50s BC establishments and :Category:58 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:59 BC establishments to :Category:50s BC establishments and :Category:59 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:60 BC establishments to :Category:60s BC establishments and :Category:60 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:64 BC establishments to :Category:60s BC establishments and :Category:64 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:70 BC establishments to :Category:70s BC establishments and :Category:70 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:79 BC establishments to :Category:70s BC establishments and :Category:79 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:82 BC establishments to :Category:80s BC establishments and :Category:82 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:90 BC establishments to :Category:90s BC establishments and :Category:90 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:110 BC establishments to :Category:110s BC establishments and :Category:110 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:111 BC establishments to :Category:110s BC establishments and :Category:111 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:118 BC establishments to :Category:110s BC establishments and :Category:118 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:110s BC establishments in Italy to :Category:110s BC establishments in Europe and :Category:2nd-century BC establishments in Italy

:* Propose merge :Category:110s BC establishments in the Roman Republic to :Category:110s BC establishments in Europe and :Category:2nd-century BC establishments in the Roman Republic

:* Propose merge :Category:121 BC establishments to :Category:120s BC establishments and :Category:121 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:123 BC establishments to :Category:120s BC establishments and :Category:123 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:132 BC establishments in Asia to :Category:130s BC establishments in Asia and :Category:132 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:133 BC establishments in Asia to :Category:130s BC establishments in Asia and :Category:133 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:134 BC establishments in China to :Category:130s BC establishments in Asia and :Category:2nd-century BC establishments in China and :Category:134 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:138 BC establishments to :Category:130s BC establishments and :Category:138 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:146 BC establishments to :Category:140s BC establishments and :Category:146 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:140s BC establishments in Italy to :Category:140s BC establishments in Europe and :Category:2nd-century BC establishments in Italy

:* Propose merge :Category:140s BC establishments in the Roman Republic to :Category:140s BC establishments in Europe and :Category:2nd-century BC establishments in the Roman Republic

:* Propose merge :Category:140s BC establishments in China to :Category:140s BC establishments in Asia and :Category:2nd-century BC establishments in China

:* Propose merge :Category:150s BC establishments in Italy to :Category:150s BC establishments in Europe and :Category:2nd-century BC establishments in Italy

:* Propose merge :Category:150s BC establishments in the Roman Republic to :Category:150s BC establishments in Europe and :Category:2nd-century BC establishments in the Roman Republic

:* Propose merge :Category:163 BC establishments to :Category:160s BC establishments and :Category:163 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:167 BC establishments to :Category:160s BC establishments and :Category:167 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:168 BC establishments to :Category:160s BC establishments and :Category:168 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:160s BC establishments in the Adena culture to :Category:160s BC establishments in North America and :Category:2nd-century BC establishments in the Adena culture

:* Propose merge :Category:171 BC establishments to :Category:170s BC establishments and :Category:171 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:177 BC establishments to :Category:170s BC establishments and :Category:177 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:180 BC establishments to :Category:180s BC establishments and :Category:180 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:183 BC establishments to :Category:180s BC establishments and :Category:183 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:184 BC establishments to :Category:180s BC establishments and :Category:184 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:185 BC establishments to :Category:180s BC establishments and :Category:185 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:189 BC establishments to :Category:180s BC establishments and :Category:189 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:180s BC establishments in Italy to :Category:180s BC establishments in Europe and :Category:2nd-century BC establishments in Italy

:* Propose merge :Category:180s BC establishments in the Roman Republic to :Category:180s BC establishments in Europe and :Category:2nd-century BC establishments in the Roman Republic

:* Propose merge :Category:191 BC establishments to :Category:190s BC establishments and :Category:191 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:195 BC establishments to :Category:190s BC establishments and :Category:195 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:197 BC establishments in Spain to :Category:190s BC establishments in Europe and :Category:2nd-century BC establishments in Spain and :Category:197 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:201 BC establishments to :Category:200s BC establishments and :Category:201 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:202 BC establishments to :Category:200s BC establishments and :Category:202 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:203 BC establishments to :Category:200s BC establishments and :Category:203 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:204 BC establishments in China to :Category:200s BC establishments in Asia and :Category:3rd-century BC establishments in China and :Category:204 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:204 BC establishments in Vietnam to :Category:200s BC establishments in Asia and :Category:3rd-century BC establishments in Vietnam and :Category:204 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:206 BC establishments to :Category:200s BC establishments and :Category:206 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:207 BC establishments to :Category:200s BC establishments and :Category:207 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:200s BC establishments in Peru to :Category:200s BC establishments in South America and :Category:3rd-century BC establishments in Peru

:* Propose merge :Category:214 BC establishments to :Category:210s BC establishments and :Category:214 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:218 BC establishments to :Category:210s BC establishments and :Category:218 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:221 BC establishments to :Category:220s BC establishments and :Category:221 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:220s BC establishments in the Maya civilization to :Category:220s BC establishments in North America and :Category:3rd-century BC establishments in Peru

:* Propose merge :Category:238 BC establishments to :Category:230s BC establishments and :Category:238 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:241 BC establishments to :Category:240s BC establishments and :Category:241 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:245 BC establishments to :Category:240s BC establishments and :Category:245 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:247 BC establishments to :Category:240s BC establishments and :Category:247 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:240s BC establishments in Italy to :Category:240s BC establishments in Europe and :Category:3rd-century BC establishments in Italy

:* Propose merge :Category:240s BC establishments in the Roman Republic to :Category:240s BC establishments in Europe and :Category:3rd-century BC establishments in the Roman Republic

:* Propose merge :Category:256 BC establishments to :Category:250s BC establishments and :Category:256 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:257 BC establishments to :Category:250s BC establishments and :Category:257 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:257 BC establishments in Vietnam to :Category:250s BC establishments in Asia and :Category:3rd-century BC establishments in Vietnam and :Category:257 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:261 BC establishments to :Category:260s BC establishments and :Category:261 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:264 BC establishments to :Category:260s BC establishments and :Category:264 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:268 BC establishments to :Category:260s BC establishments and :Category:268 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:280 BC establishments to :Category:280s BC establishments and :Category:280 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:281 BC establishments to :Category:280s BC establishments and :Category:281 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:282 BC establishments in Asia to :Category:280s BC establishments in Asia and :Category:282 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:294 BC establishments to :Category:290s BC establishments and :Category:294 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:297 BC establishments to :Category:290s BC establishments and :Category:297 BC

:* Propose merge :Category:290s BC establishments in Italy to :Category:290s BC establishments in Europe and :Category:3rd-century BC establishments in Italy

:* Propose merge :Category:290s BC establishments in the Roman Republic to :Category:290s BC establishments in Europe and :Category:3rd-century BC establishments in the Roman Republic

{{cob}}

{{cot|delete container categories that become empty after the above merge}}

:* Propose delete :Category:50s BC establishments by country

:* Propose delete :Category:110s BC establishments by country

:* Propose delete :Category:134 BC establishments

:* Propose delete :Category:134 BC establishments by country

:* Propose delete :Category:130s BC establishments in China

:* Propose delete :Category:130s BC establishments by country

:* Propose delete :Category:140s BC establishments by country

:* Propose delete :Category:160s BC establishments by country

:* Propose delete :Category:180s BC establishments by country

:* Propose delete :Category:197 BC establishments

:* Propose delete :Category:197 BC establishments by country

:* Propose delete :Category:190s BC establishments in Spain

:* Propose delete :Category:190s BC establishments by country

:* Propose delete :Category:204 BC establishments

:* Propose delete :Category:204 BC establishments by country

:* Propose delete :Category:200s BC establishments in Vietnam

:* Propose delete :Category:200s BC establishments by country

:* Propose delete :Category:220s BC establishments by country

:* Propose delete :Category:240s BC establishments by country

:* Propose delete :Category:257 BC establishments by country

:* Propose delete :Category:250s BC establishments by country

:* Propose delete :Category:250s BC establishments in Vietnam

{{cob}}

: Nominator's rationale: merge years to decades by continent, and merge years by country to centuries by country, per WP:SMALLCAT, nearly all final rungs consist of only one article. Note: this nomination only deals with the period prior to the establishment of the Roman Empire (i.e. before 27 BC). Marcocapelle (talk) 10:36, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose we lose the connection with the year. For example, by merging :Category:31 BC establishments into :Category:30s BC establishments, the articles can no longer be found in the tree :Category:31 BC. Just because the categories are small, WP:SMALLCAT has an express limitation "unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme"; establishment by years is clearly such a sub-categorization scheme. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:49, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

:* Withdraw proposal, you're absolutely right, it doesn't make sense this way. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:04, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

• Support -- but a double merge is needed for :Category:31 BC establishments also to :Category:31 BC. These annual categories are something of a menace, as the ancient ones are always small; and the establishment ones are worse. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:44, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
• Support double merge per Peterkingiron Laurel Lodged (talk) 22:12, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
• Fair enough, then I'll add the double merge in the nomination instead of withdrawing the nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:15, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
• Support per nominator's rationale. 8bitW (talk) 17:35, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.