Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 June 13

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= June 13 =

== Category:Role-playing video games by year ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: no action. There is a consensus in this discssusion that the sub-categories of :Category:Role-playing video games by year should not exist, and AFAICS that they should be merged to one of more parent categories. However, none of those categories have been included in this nomination, so the only effect of closing this discussion as "delete" would be to remove the parent category which groups {{cl|Role-playing video games introduced in 1975‎}}, {{cl|Role-playing video games introduced in 1977}} etc ... which would pointless.
Furthermore, none of the sub-categories has been tagged, so it would be quite wrong for any action to be taken upon them when the readers of those categories have not been notified of this discussion.
So, if anyone wants to start a new CFD discussion which actually lists all the categories involved and sets out the proposed actions to them, then feel free to do without delay. Pinging all the editors involved in this discussion ... {{ping|AdrianGamer|Ferret|The1337gamer|Mindmatrix|Hellknowz|Marcocapelle}} if you want help constructing a group nomination, feel free to ask on my talk page. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:42, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

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:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Role-playing video games by year}}

:Nominator's rationale: The consensus here and here show that this category and all its subcategories are vague and unnecessary. AdrianGamer (talk) 13:30, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Delete Per nom and project consensus. But we need to ensure that the category is replaced with :Category:Role-playing video games where it is missing, rather than simply removing the deleted category. -- ferret (talk) 14:21, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
Delete per WT:VG#Genre by year categories discussion. All subcategories of :Category:Role-playing video games by year should be upmerged to :Category:Role-playing video games then deleted. --The1337gamer (talk) 15:39, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

::I'm not sure I see the relevance of WikiProject Vermont here. If there is a relevant discussion in its archives, please link to it. (I assume you were referring to the linked discussions above and mistakenly used an incorrect shortcut?) Mind matrix 17:29, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

:::Corrected. --The1337gamer (talk) 17:33, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Comment: I originally created this category tree to match the various board game and card game categories, most of which I created. Those categories were named using 'introduced' for consistency with earlier categories, which I should have avoided from the start and simply used 'X role-playing games' for a given year 'X'. (See this 2014 discussion on my talk page for some info.) The intention was to intersect :Category:Role-playing games by year and :Category:Role-playing video games. I don't really care about the result of this discussion, but there is a plausible reason why these (horribly misnamed) categories exist. Mind matrix 17:29, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
Delete as (naming issue aside) a fairly arbitrary cross-categorization. Genre by year does not seem to be the most useful solution (for WP's lacking feature of cross-category search). We already have both the year and genre categories and this simply makes it more cumbersome to browse games from the genre or potentially many sub-genres. I could see the reason for such categorization for broad topics, like "card games" or "video game" (which we already have), but I don't think it's useful when we break them down further, especially since genres are sometimes vague and overlap. — HELLKNOWZ ▎TALK 10:14, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
Procedural comment, if I understand correctly, all arguments for deletion most particularly apply to the child categories of the nominated category. If that's the case, the child categories should be nominated, and they should probably be nominated for upmerging to their respective parent categories rather than nominated for straight deletion. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:57, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Art music ==

:The result of the discussion was: merge. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:35, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting :Category:Art music

:Nominator's rationale: No potential for expansion, since the same role is already fulfilled by :Category:Classical and art music traditions. CN1 (talk) 19:00, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Merge to the latter, then, not delete. – Fayenatic London 19:54, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
Sure there is potential for expansion. However, we don't currently have more content about art music in general, so merge for now, until our content has been expanded. --PanchoS (talk) 21:24, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

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== Category:Companies established in 578 ==

:The result of the discussion was: merge/rename as per nom. (non-admin closure) ~ Rob^Talk 04:42, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

:* Propose merging:

::* :Category:Companies established in 578 to :Category:Companies established in the 6th century‎ and :Category:578 establishments

::* :Category:Companies established in 1141‎ to :Category:Companies established in the 12th century‎, :Category:Organizations established in the 1140s and :Category:1141 establishments

::* :Category:Companies established in 1198 to :Category:Companies established in the 12th century‎, :Category:Organizations established in the 1190s and :Category:1198 establishments

::* :Category:Companies established in 1255 to :Category:Companies established in the 13th century‎, :Category:Organizations established in the 1250s and :Category:1255 establishments

::* :Category:Companies established in 1407 to :Category:Companies established in the 15th century‎, :Category:Organizations established in the 1400s and :Category:1407 establishments

::* :Category:Companies established in 1472 to :Category:Companies established in the 15th century‎, :Category:Organizations established in the 1470s and :Category:1472 establishments

::* :Category:Companies established in 1488 to :Category:Companies established in the 15th century‎, :Category:Organizations established in the 1480s and :Category:1488 establishments

::* :Category:Companies established in 1498 to :Category:Companies established in the 15th century‎, :Category:Organizations established in the 1490s and :Category:1498 establishments

::* :Category:Companies established in 1520 to :Category:Companies established in the 16th century‎, :Category:Organizations established in the 1520s and :Category:1520 establishments

::* :Category:Companies established in 1534 to :Category:Companies established in the 16th century‎, :Category:Organizations established in the 1530s and :Category:1534 establishments

::* :Category:Companies established in 1563 to :Category:Companies established in the 16th century‎, :Category:Organizations established in the 1560s and :Category:1563 establishments

::* :Category:Companies established in 1584 to :Category:Companies established in the 16th century‎, :Category:Organizations established in the 1580s and :Category:1584 establishments

::* :Category:Companies established in 1586 to :Category:Companies established in the 16th century‎, :Category:Organizations established in the 1580s and :Category:1586 establishments

::* :Category:Companies established in 1590 to :Category:Companies established in the 16th century‎, :Category:Organizations established in the 1590s and :Category:1590 establishments

::* :Category:Companies established in the 570s to :Category:Companies established in the 6th century‎ and :Category:570s establishments

::* :Category:Companies established in the 1140s to :Category:Companies established in the 12th century‎ and :Category:Organizations established in the 1140s

::* :Category:Companies established in the 1190s to :Category:Companies established in the 12th century‎ and :Category:Organizations established in the 1190s

::* :Category:Companies established in the 1250s to :Category:Companies established in the 13th century‎ and :Category:Organizations established in the 1250s

::* :Category:Companies established in the 1400s to :Category:Companies established in the 15th century‎ and :Category:Organizations established in the 1400s

::* :Category:Companies established in the 1470s to :Category:Companies established in the 15th century‎ and :Category:Organizations established in the 1470s

::* :Category:Companies established in the 1480s to :Category:Companies established in the 15th century‎ and :Category:Organizations established in the 1480s

::* :Category:Companies established in the 1490s to :Category:Companies established in the 15th century‎ and :Category:Organizations established in the 1490s

::* :Category:Companies established in the 1520s to :Category:Companies established in the 16th century‎ and :Category:Organizations established in the 1520s

::* :Category:Companies established in the 1530s to :Category:Companies established in the 16th century‎ and :Category:Organizations established in the 1530s

::* :Category:Companies established in the 1560s to :Category:Companies established in the 16th century‎ and :Category:Organizations established in the 1560s

::* :Category:Companies established in the 1580s to :Category:Companies established in the 16th century‎ and :Category:Organizations established in the 1560s

::* :Category:Companies established in the 1590s to :Category:Companies established in the 16th century‎ and :Category:Organizations established in the 1590s

::* :Category:Organizations established in 578 to :Category:578 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1141‎ to :Category:Organizations established in the 1140s and :Category:1141 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1172 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1170s and :Category:1172 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1182 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1180s and :Category:1182 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1198 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1190s and :Category:1198 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1243 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1240s and :Category:1243 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1248 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1240s and :Category:1248 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1253 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1250s and :Category:1253 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1255 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1250s and :Category:1255 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1270 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1270s and :Category:1270 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1336 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1330s and :Category:1336 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1407 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1400s and :Category:1407 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1472 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1470s and :Category:1472 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1479 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1470s and :Category:1479 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1488 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1480s and :Category:1488 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1498 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1490s and :Category:1498 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1520 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1520s and :Category:1520 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1525 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1520s and :Category:1525 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1534 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1530s and :Category:1534 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1553 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1550s and :Category:1553 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1563 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1560s and :Category:1563 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1567 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1560s and :Category:1567 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1570 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1570s and :Category:1570 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1572 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1570s and :Category:1572 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1584 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1580s and :Category:1584 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1586 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1580s and :Category:1586 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1590 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1590s and :Category:1590 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1594 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1590s and :Category:1594 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1598 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1590s and :Category:1598 establishments

::* :Category:Organizations established in 1599 to :Category:Organizations established in the 1590s and :Category:1599 establishments

::* :Category:1141 in economics to :Category:12th-century economic history and :Category:1141

::* :Category:1198 in economics to :Category:12th-century economic history and :Category:1198

::* :Category:1255 in economics to :Category:13th-century economic history and :Category:1255

::* :Category:1298 in economics to :Category:13th-century economic history and :Category:1298

::* :Category:1407 in economics‎ to :Category:15th-century economic history and :Category:1407

::* :Category:1472 in economics‎ to :Category:15th-century economic history and :Category:1472

::* :Category:1488 in economics‎ to :Category:15th-century economic history and :Category:1488

::* :Category:1498 in economics‎ to :Category:15th-century economic history and :Category:1498

::* :Category:1503 in economics‎ to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1503

::* :Category:1520 in economics‎ to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1520

::* :Category:1526 in economics‎ to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1526

::* :Category:1534 in economics‎ to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1534

::* :Category:1554 in economics‎ to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1554

::* :Category:1563 in economics‎ to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1563

::* :Category:1584 in economics‎ to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1584

::* :Category:1586 in economics‎ to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1586

::* :Category:1590 in economics‎ to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1590

::* :Category:1140s economic history to :Category:12th-century economic history and :Category:1140s

::* :Category:1250s economic history to :Category:13th-century economic history and :Category:1250s

::* :Category:1290s economic history to :Category:13th-century economic history and :Category:1290s

::* :Category:1400s economic history to :Category:15th-century economic history and :Category:1400s

::* :Category:1470s economic history to :Category:15th-century economic history and :Category:1470s

::* :Category:1480s economic history to :Category:15th-century economic history and :Category:1480s

::* :Category:1490s economic history to :Category:15th-century economic history and :Category:1490s

::* :Category:1500s economic history to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1500s

::* :Category:1520s economic history to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1520s

::* :Category:1530s economic history to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1530s

::* :Category:1550s economic history to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1550s

::* :Category:1560s economic history to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1560s

::* :Category:1580s economic history to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1580s

::* :Category:1590s economic history to :Category:16th-century economic history and :Category:1590s

:* Propose renaming/merging:

::* :Category:Companies disestablished in 1298 to :Category:Companies disestablished in the 13th century‎, :Category:Organizations disestablished in the 1290s and :Category:1298 disestablishments

::* :Category:Companies disestablished in 1503‎ to :Category:Companies disestablished in the 16th century‎, :Category:Organizations disestablished in the 1500s and :Category:1503 disestablishments

::* :Category:Companies disestablished in the 1290s to :Category:Companies disestablished in the 13th century‎ and :Category:Organizations disestablished in the 1290s

::* :Category:Companies disestablished in the 1500s to :Category:Companies disestablished in the 16th century‎ and :Category:Organizations disestablished in the 1500s

::* :Category:Banks established in 1255‎ to :Category:Banks established in the 13th century, :Category:Organizations established in the 1250s and :Category:1255 establishments

::* :Category:Banks established in 1407 to :Category:Banks established in the 15th century, :Category:Organizations established in the 1400s and :Category:1407 establishments

::* :Category:Banks established in 1472 to :Category:Banks established in the 15th century, :Category:Organizations established in the 1470s and :Category:1472 establishments

::* :Category:Banks established in 1488 to :Category:Banks established in the 15th century, :Category:Organizations established in the 1480s and :Category:1488 establishments

::* :Category:Banks established in 1563 to :Category:Banks established in the 16th century, :Category:Organizations established in the 1560s and :Category:1563 establishments

::* :Category:Banks established in 1590 to :Category:Banks established in the 16th century, :Category:Organizations established in the 1590s and :Category:1590 establishments

::* :Category:Banks disestablished in 1298 to :Category:Banks disestablished in the 13th century, :Category:Organizations disestablished in the 1290s and :Category:1298 disestablishments

::* :Category:Hotels established in 1493‎ to :Category:Hotels established in the 15th century, :Category:Organizations disestablished in the 1490s and :Category:1493 establishments

::* :Category:Hotels established in 1560 to :Category:Hotels established in the 16th century, :Category:Organizations disestablished in the 1560s and :Category:1560 establishments

:Nominator's rationale: While these are established schemes at least from the 19th century on, in early centuries they produce WP:SMALLCATs that aren't helpful for organizing our content nor for navigation. PanchoS (talk) 10:31, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Support I'm open to WP:SMALLCAT exceptions with small countries or an off year. But these time periods seem unlikely to ever be well populated and I don't see a navigational benefit. RevelationDirect (talk) 22:40, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
Support, I had noticed the 578 company establishment before and considered to nominate that single category, I'm glad that nominator took it a bit broader here. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:01, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

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== Category:Birds of Angola ==

:The result of the discussion was: merge as per nom. (non-admin closure) ~ Rob^Talk 17:13, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Birds of Angola to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa

Propose merging :Category:Birds of Benin to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Botswana to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Burkina Faso to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Burundi to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Cameroon to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of the Central African Republic to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Chad to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of the Democratic Republic of the Congo to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Djibouti to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Equatorial Guinea to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Eritrea to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Ethiopia to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Gabon to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of the Gambia to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Ghana to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Guinea to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Guinea-Bissau to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Ivory Coast to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Kenya to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Lesotho to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Liberia to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Malawi to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Mali to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Mauritania to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Mozambique to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Namibia to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Niger to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Nigeria to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of the Republic of the Congo to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Rwanda to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Senegal to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Sierra Leone to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Somalia to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of South Africa to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa (but keep :Category:Important Bird Areas of South Africa in a South Africa category)
Propose merging :Category:Birds of South Sudan to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Sudan to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Swaziland to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Tanzania to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Togo to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Uganda to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Zambia to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa
Propose merging :Category:Birds of Zimbabwe to :Category:Birds of Sub-Saharan Africa

:Nominator's rationale: Many birds have a distribution that includes many countries - e.g. see categories at Common waxbill or Goliath heron (currently in 42 country categories most of which aren't mentioned in the article text). The folly of this sort of categorization is demonstrated by Black-headed oriole which says "It breeds in much of sub-Saharan Africa from South Sudan and Ethiopia in the north to South Africa in the south." and has thus been placed in categories for the 3 countries specifically mentioned (i.e. the countries at the extremes of its range), but not in the countries between them. Red-billed firefinch says "in most of Sub-Saharan Africa", but it is not (currently) categorized for most African countries - so the categories don't even work as complete lists.

:Note: Most/all of these categories contain a "List of birds in " article which should stay in a category for the relevant country, but all I've checked are already in a suitable category (e.g. :Category:Lists of biota of Angola) so no upmerge is needed. Similarly, :Category:Important Bird Areas of Niger is already in a Niger category.

:Note: Categories for islands (e.g. Madagascar) are not included in this nomination.

:Example of a previous CFD: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_May_18#Category:Birds_of_the_Palestinian_territories. Note: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_February_13#Category:Birds_of_Africa (closed as no consensus) DexDor^(talk) 06:10, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Support – the only country categories for flora/fauna should be 'XXX endemic to Foo'. Oculi (talk) 11:19, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
{{re|DexDor}} While I agree that per-country categories don't work, is there a reason not to be at least a bit more specific by having {{cat|Birds of Central Africa}}, {{cat|Birds of East Africa}}, {{cat|Birds of Southern Africa}}, and {{cat|Birds of West Africa}}? Even if some birds may be prevalent in two or three of these regions, many may be specific to one or the other region. --PanchoS (talk) 13:31, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

::Sub-Saharan Africa (at about 15% of the World's land area) is about the right size for these categories (it puts most birds in about 1-3 such categories and few in more than 4); we are trying to categorize here, not to shoehorn an encoding of the distribution of each species into the category system. Article text (where complications can be explained and references provided) and diagrams are a much better way to present information about distribution of a species to readers (and, of course, we can have list-of-birds-in-area articles for quite small areas). As a matter of practicality it's likely that more editors/readers are familiar with the meaning of Sub-Saharan Africa than are familiar with, for example, Central Africa. DexDor^(talk) 17:40, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

::* For now, I'm waiting for some more input, but if that's the case (1–3 categories of these per bird on average), then I'm fine with the proposal. --PanchoS (talk) 09:33, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

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== Category:Organizations of the Jack Abramoff scandals ==

:The result of the discussion was: delete, while merging some of the contents to :Category:Jack Abramoff scandals, as discussed. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 00:32, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Organizations of the Jack Abramoff scandals}}

:Nominator's rationale: listify and delete, these are organizations associated with the Jack Abramoff scandals, we don't categorize by mere association. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:02, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

~~Strong Oppose~~ These are front companies and non-profits whose primary purpose was to launder money in Abramoff's financial shell game. Indeed, the scandal may not have been able to happen without the fake Kaygold company. The only article that seems like it's a mere association that you describe is the Americans for Tax Reform so I removed that one from the category. RevelationDirect (talk) 10:35, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

:*{{ping|RevelationDirect}} You allege that these companies "are front companies and non-profits whose primary purpose was to launder money in Abramoff's financial shell game." As regards Preston Gates, the company that incorporated Microsoft and was its lead outside lawyers for decades, please provide reliable sources or retract your comment. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:35, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

::* You're right, I spoke too broadly See below for examples that go the other way. RevelationDirect (talk) 20:09, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Delete per nom - vague things associated with a bad dude don't get categorized like this. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:35, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
Compromise? Kaygold, Capital Athletic Foundation, American International Center and GrassRoots Interactive are described in the articles as front organizations whose primary purpose was money laundering by Abramoff. How about upmerging those 4 to :Category:Jack Abramoff scandals and ditching this vaguely worded category? RevelationDirect (talk) 20:09, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

:* Fair enough, upmerge these four to :Category:Jack Abramoff scandals, then delete. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:10, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

::* Delete with Selective Upmerge Per above. RevelationDirect (talk) 22:33, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

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== Fictional Buddhist monks ==

:The result of the discussion was: keep. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:04, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

:* Propose Renaming :Category:Fictional Buddhist monks to :Category:Fictional Buddhist monks and nuns

:Nominator's rationale: Consistent with parent categories; inclusiveness is better than creating more categories. --Atvica (talk) 04:53, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Oppose. The monks/nuns trees are currently separate, so combining them in just this one subcategory doesn't make much sense. I might be receptive to a larger nomination that combines all of them, though. ~ Rob^Talk 17:16, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
Oppose we have :Category:Fictional monks, that does not make this merger. The roles and social expectations of monks and nuns differ enough to justify not combining them.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:47, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

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== Mayotte ==

:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. There may be consensus for a more restricted, but the arrival of the compromise proposal part way through the discussion makes that hard to evaluate. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:17, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

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:* Propose merging :Category:1978 establishments in Mayotte to :Category:1978 establishments in France, :Category:1978 establishments in Africa, and :Category:1978 in Mayotte

:* Propose merging :Category:1991 establishments in Mayotte to :Category:1991 establishments in France and :Category:1991 establishments in Africa (no :Category:1991 in Mayotte, and already in the tree elsewhere)

:* Propose deleting :Category:Establishments in Mayotte by year‎

:* Propose deleting :Category:Establishments in Mayotte by millennium‎

:* Propose deleting :Category:2nd-millennium establishments in Mayotte‎

:* Propose deleting :Category:20th-century establishments in Mayotte‎

:* Propose deleting :Category:1970s establishments in Mayotte

:* Propose deleting :Category:Establishments in Mayotte by decade

:* Propose deleting :Category:Establishments in Mayotte by century

:* Propose deleting :Category:Establishments in Mayotte

:Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT. Two articles in this tree. ~ Rob^Talk 04:32, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

::Oppose part of a well-established tree with many large cats and some small cats, reflecting the size of the countries / dependencies and the attention they have received on enwiki. I'll add some other Mayotte year establishments to flesh out the tree. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fram (talk • contribs) 07:22, 13 June 2016‎

:::Could you describe how a one-article category hidden within multiple layers of container categories helps readers find articles, which is the point of categorization? The SMALLCAT exception is not a suicide pact. ~ Rob^Talk 07:26, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

::::Yeah, I have seen that dramatically titled user subpage you have before. It's obviously not part of our guidelines, so you can link to it as much as you want but I don't really care for it and don't take it into account. WP:BEFORE: before suggesting to upmerge categories, first check if there aren't more pages that belong in these categories. Instead of 2, we now have 9 pages in this tree, which makes e.g. :Category:Establishments in Mayotte by year a useful page. It can be expanded further if the establishment year of the airport, some political parties, football grounds, ... can be added. You suggest upmerging to e.g. :Category:1978 establishments in Africa, but these continent categories are not supposed to have loose articles in them, they are intended to have pages by country. At the moment, 15 of the 25 subcategories there only have one article in them, so it's not as if the Mayotte one is an exception here. Fram (talk) 08:14, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

::::* On the contrary it would facilitate navigation if we would mainly have articles instead of only categories in :Category:1978 establishments in Africa. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:15, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

:::::*Depends on whether you truly are looking for articles about that subject (establishments in Africa in that year), or whether you are using it as a navigational aid towards articles about establishments in certain countries in Africa. I think the latter happens more than the former. Fram (talk) 06:48, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Support per nom, except for :Category:Establishments in Mayotte which is a suitable fourth merge target. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:15, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
So to reduce the number of categories, we will quadruple the number of categories added to each page? I fail to see any benefit here. Fram (talk) 06:48, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

::* Support Eliminating 10 articles in exchange for adding a few categories to 2 articles seems like a good trade to me. These categories are conceptually fine but I don't think WP:SMALLCAT justifies whole un/underpopulated category trees. RevelationDirect (talk) 22:38, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

:::*Like I said above, it is no longer about 2 articles, but about 9 (with the potential to add some others as well). Fram (talk) 12:06, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Support per nom, except keep :Category:20th-century establishments in Mayotte‎, :Category:2nd-millennium establishments in Mayotte‎, :Category:21st-century establishments in Mayotte‎, :Category:3rd-millennium establishments in Mayotte‎ after recent expansion of the tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:57, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
Comment from nominator. I'm fine with the compromise solution that keeps centuries and millennia categories. The categories have been populated a tad since I nominated. ~ Rob^Talk 04:43, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
Support the proposed compromise of keeping the broad century and millennium categories, but upmerging the individual year ones. For a small dependency of another country, the necessary degree of categorization may not always be equivalent in volume to what a country gets — if there were a lot of content for them, then the by-year categories would be fine, but it isn't the most useful or reader-benefiting way to organize the content if they're all one-or-two-item WP:SMALLCATs with little to no prospect of expansion. Bearcat (talk) 18:38, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
Support for the record I created the 1991 category. We do not have enough articles in the Mayotte Category to justify it being split off, and not enough in the France categories to justify them absolutely needing to be split. It is true that there are lots more articles that could be put in establishment categories, but my work on this suggests we are unlikely to find many more for Mayotte.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:50, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
Support the revised proposal of upmerging, though I'd keep the decade categories. It's worth noting that several Mayotte articles don't have establishment dates, which could surely be found (two of the political parties, the airport, the sports stadia...) - though none of the categories would be particularly big, I think that by-decade categories would be reasonable. Grutness...wha? 02:55, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
There have been some past discussions where editors have balked at keeping decades as an end-level category. I'm not really convinced it's a bad idea, but it would be inconsistent with the results of past discussions. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 03:24, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
Fair enough - it would seem the logical curse of action in cases like this, though, and certainly no worse than keeping century categories in the same way. Grutness...wha? 02:12, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
Agree on all counts. I'm just noting the precedent. We really need some effective way to have larger scale conversations about these sorts of things. It's not feasible to nominate the whole establishments tree (!) for an actual discussion establishing some standards, but that's what we really need. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 02:14, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose all. Merging to :Category:1978 establishments in France would be fine, but we do not want articles directly in the year-by-continent categories such as :Category:1978 establishments in Africa, and it would be unclear why an institution was in an events category :Category:1978 in Mayotte – it is the establishment of the institution that is the event. IMHO these nominated categories perform a valid function and are generally working well. Also, IMHO is is better to have clutter in the category system, with small categories, than to add three categories instead of one at the foot of an article. – Fayenatic London 07:44, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

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== Fictional characters by religion ==

:The result of the discussion was: delete all. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:20, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting :Category:Fictional Characters by Religion

:* Propose deleting :Category:Fictional Buddhists

:* Propose deleting :Category:Fictional Christians

:* Propose deleting :Category:Fictional Muslims

:Nominator's rationale: These categories were deleted in 2008. They keep getting re-created and speedily re-deleted. Given that it has been eight years, I figured we may as well revisit the issue to see if consensus has changed on the matter. I am neutral, though if the head category is kept, it needs to be renamed to :Category:Fictional characters by religion. ({{cat|Fictional Jews}} was also deleted in 2008, but it was kept in a 2010 discussion as an ethnicity category, so it is not included in this discussion.) Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 04:12, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

::Comment A more inclusive name would be :Category:Fictional practitioners of a religious denomination or theology, as not every "belief" or "spirituality" is strictly religious. --Atvica (talk) 05:38, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

::@User:Good Olfactory - can you provide some info re "keep getting re-created and speedily re-deleted"? DexDor^(talk) 05:51, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

:::In addition to the initial deletion, {{cat|Fictional Muslims}} has been speedily deleted four times as re-created material. {{Cat|Fictional Christians}} has been speedily deleted twice, as has {{Cat|Fictional Buddhists}}. I don't mean to imply that the categories are being created every month or anything like that. But since 2008, these three categories have now been re-created a combined total of 11 times. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 14:29, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Delete all not defining; characters can be written for any religion not pertinent to anything the character does. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:36, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
Delete all as not necessary defining. We do have categories where the religion is significant (e.g., :Category:Fictional clergy, :Category:Fictional monks, etc.), and that should be sufficient. Neutrality^talk 20:51, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
Delete and salt. We shouldn't have to repeatedly delete bad categories (it's a waste of editor time - e.g. watchlist noise on the articles affected). If anyone thinks a category that has been deleted (after discussion) should exist they should start a discussion (inviting participation from relevant wikiprojects - in this case fiction, religion and categorization) (or, if recently deleted, a DRV) and get consensus before re-creating it. DexDor^(talk) 05:51, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
Comment We do not have a WikiProject Fiction. We have Wikipedia:WikiProject Fictional characters for the specific subject, but other fictional topics are divided between various Projects about specific media and genres. Dimadick (talk) 08:18, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

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== Category:Inspirational literature ==

:The inspirational result of the discussion was: delete both. The bot will do the inspirational works to eliminate them. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 08:42, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

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:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Inspirational literature}}

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Inspirational works}}

:Nominator's rationale: delete, subjective inclusion criterion. See also this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:59, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Delete both per the earlier deletion discussion of similar cat; this has unclear inclusion criteria. :Category:Devotional literature and :Category:Religious themed fiction exist, so this category doesn't serve any purpose; it merely adds a vague cat to the mix. Neutrality^talk 20:54, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

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