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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 December 15

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= December 15 =

== Category:National Rifle Association people ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. -- Black Falcon (talk) 21:36, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|National Rifle Association people}}

:Nominator's rationale: People can mean what? Supporters? Opponents? Spokespeople? Vague and not useful. - CHAMPION (talk) (contributions) (logs) 23:50, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Sri Lankan physicians ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge per nom. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:52, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

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:* Propose merging :Category:Sri Lankan physicians to :Category:Sri Lankan medical doctors

:Nominator's rationale: Overlapping categories. Medical doctor is probably the more appropriate title in Sri Lanka Rathfelder (talk) 23:20, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

  • Reverse merge; the article is physician. Are you saying that people speak of "medical doctors" more than they do of "physicians"? As far as I'm aware, the only standard terms are "doctors" and "physicians" worldwide, and since "doctors" is ambiguous, this category must use "physicians" unless you can demonstrate that the full "medical doctors", not merely "doctors", is standard enough to warrant an ENGVAR exemption. Nyttend (talk) 14:51, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
  • In countries of the former British Empire physicians is not commonly used, as they tend to look to the UK for training, and use British terminology, at least when using the English language. Rathfelder (talk) 11:47, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Merge as nominated, per precedent, because other former British colonies also use medical doctors in the name. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:46, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Merge per nom. I demonstrated elsewhere that I could find hundreds of thousands of uses of "medical doctor". Over 100,000 connected just with one individual. Beyond this, in Sri Lanka, physician is a specific sub-set of medical doctor, and cannot in any way, shape, means or form be used as the equivalent of medical doctor.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:05, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Video game characters who can manipulate time and space ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: closed in conjunction with Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 January 4#Category:Fictional characters who can manipulate time and space.
Taken together, these discussions have two editors with policy-based reasons for deletion, and nobody offering policy-based reasons to keep. We have one editor supporting merger of the video game subcat and one opponent of that merge. However, the issue of merger is moot if fictional characters are not to be categorised by this attribute ... so the result is delete both :Category:Video game characters who can manipulate time and space and :Category:Fictional characters who can manipulate time and space. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:10, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

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:* Propose merging :Category:Video game characters who can manipulate time and space to :Category:Fictional characters who can manipulate time and space

:Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT. This category has 6 articles; its parent, 33. 2600:387:A:19:0:0:0:6A (talk) 22:54, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

==Category:Polychaetes genera==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:41, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

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:* Propose renaming :Category:Polychaetes genera to :Category:Polychaete genera

:Nominator's rationale: This category seems to be one of the only amongst the section of genera categories written as a plural. This is as opposed to the category's superior categories, :Category:Annelid genera, :Category:Lophotrochozoa genera, :Category:Protostome genera, :Category:Bilaterian genera, and :Category:Animal genera. The relative article is Polychaete, rather than Polychaeta or Polychaetes. Yours Truly, HNdlROdU. Signed, 19:57, 15 December 2017 (UTC).

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:University of Alaska System ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:44, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

::PS pinging the participants in case anyone wants to consider follow-up action: {{ping|Nyttend|Marcocapelle|Johnpacklambert|p=}}. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:49, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

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:* Propose renaming :Category:University of Alaska System to :Category:University of Alaska system

:Nominator's rationale: Article's at University of Alaska system; it was moved from System to system in 2014. I didn't want a CFDS because this isn't a clear-cut situation: sometimes "system" can be a description, while other times it can be a formal part of the title, and not knowing anything about the subject, I was hesitant to assume that "system" was correct. I'd be fine with a rename, but I'd equally be fine with votes such as "Oppose; the article should be renamed". If this is closed as unsuccessful for that reason, I'll move the article back or request a move. Nyttend (talk) 15:48, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

  • Comment, the website of the institution itself uses a capital S, see [https://www.alaska.edu/alaska/about-ua/], and system (lowercase) as a descriptor does not make sense anyway. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:54, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose since the System itself uses capital form.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:06, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Years and decades in medieval Africa ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge/delete per nom. {{ping|Marcocapelle}}: I have listed these at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Working/Manual#Other. Can you look after implementation? Lemme know if you need assistnce. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:02, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

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:* Propose merging :Category:530s in Africa‎ to :Category:530s and :Category:6th century in Africa

:* Propose merging :Category:533 in Africa to :Category:533 and :Category:6th century in Africa

:* Propose merging :Category:534 establishments in Africa to :Category:534 establishments and :Category:6th-century establishments in Africa

:* Propose merging :Category:534 in Africa‎ to :Category:534 and :Category:6th century in Africa

:* Propose merging :Category:580s establishments in Africa to :Category:580s establishments and :Category:6th century in Africa

: List continues on the talk page.

:Nominator's rationale: merge/delete per WP:SMALLCAT, the categories mostly consist of only one article. The intention of the proposal is to upmerge the medieval year and decade categories of the whole continent Africa to centuries and to upmerge the medieval year and decade categories of the separate African countries to centuries. Even for the whole continent there isn't sufficient content per year or decade. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:44, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== various Military physicians nationality categories ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename all. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:32, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Ghanaian physicians ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:04, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

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  • Rename :Category:Ghanaian physicians to :Category:Ghanaian medical doctors
  • Nominator's rationale To get some background I did a study on the Ghanaian medical doctor I know the best, Emmanuel Abu Kissi (I have actually met him, but that is another story). All the sources I could find refered to him as a doctor, a medical doctor, or a surgeon. Not one ever called him a physician. My general impression is that a large percentage of the medical doctors in Ghana have been trained in Britian, and of the ones who have not, they are likely to have been trained by men like Dr. Kissi, who was trained in Britain and on his return to Ghana was an instructor in a medical college before he established his own hospital. In the British medical system the term "medical doctor" is the only one that encompasses what is meant to be covered by this category, physician being a specific sub-set of it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:27, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose per my rationale on Sri Lanka above. You've presented no evidence that "medical doctor" is the standard term in Ghana, so it gets no WP:ENGVAR exemption. Nyttend (talk) 14:54, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Comment, the government site of Ghana yields 49 hits on "doctor" and 12 hits on "physician" (see [http://www.ghana.gov.gh/index.php/component/search/?searchword=doctor&ordering=newest&searchphrase=all this link], but note that the very first hit on doctor should be excluded.) Marcocapelle (talk) 21:25, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
  • No one has ever argued that physician is an unused term in Ghana, only that it is not the equivalent of medical doctor, but a specific subset of medical doctor.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:08, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Merge as nominated, per precedent, because other former British colonies also use medical doctors in the name. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:57, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Comment a search of google using medical doctor in quotes plus Ghana results in over 372,000 hits. Here is just one example [http://grandmotherafrica.com/ghanaian-medical-doctors-the-ungrateful-bastards/]. Here we have this [https://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/entertainment/Meet-the-medical-doctor-who-is-into-photography-462729] from a Ghanaian news site. I could go on, and on, and on. I just have a sense that my observations on this matter are largely ignored by people who don't really want evidence, they want to use a lack of evidence to keep the status quo.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:13, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Fijian military physicians ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:09, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Panamanian military physicians ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:14, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

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  • Rename :Category:Panamanian military physicians to :Category:Panamanian military doctors
  • Nominator's rationale There are a lot of reasons to do this. 1- the parent category is :Category:Panamanian medical doctors. 2- It is generally agreed that doctor is the most common name for this profession, and in the military field there is no confusion with other meanings of doctor. 3- physician is a term used primarily in very technical settings, and in no way in compliance with the common name guidelines. This is more true because in different forms of English it has different meanings, which make it less than fully useful in this setting.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:04, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Soviet physicians ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:11, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

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  • Rename :Category:Soviet physicians to :Category:Soviet medical doctors
  • Nominator's rationale In many places where English is used, surgeons are not a sub-set of physicians. So the fact they are here will seem irregular to those who use British English. Even in the United States, medical doctor is a widely used and acceptable term. Recent searches showed well over 100 thousand google hits for "medical dcotr" when paired with two prominent American medical doctors. Some might argue a better reflection of actual use would be :Category:Soviet doctors (medical). I am not heavily attached to either form, but am convinced that one or the other would be a clear better reflection of common name rules than the current form.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:50, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
  • For the last 150 years or so surgeons have been trained in most places with all the other doctors, and they specialise after their initial training. In that sense surgeons are a subset of physicians.Rathfelder (talk) 16:02, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Not in Biriths usage.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:14, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
  • In reviewing the articles in this category I have not yet found one which contains the words "medical doctor". The term physician appears frequently, and the term doctor less so, and some use the term medic, which I have rarely seen in respect of any other country. Rathfelder (talk) 18:27, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
  • You obviously missed an article like Marian Panchyshyn.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:23, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
  • I may well have, but I have reviewed several thousand articles about doctors and I am confident that in Wikipedia articles the words "medical doctor" rarely appear. Rathfelder (talk) 19:51, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Wikipedia is not a reliable source though.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:14, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Expand templates used by Twinkle ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete after removing the category code at Template:Twinkle standard installation/sandbox ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Twinkle_standard_installation/sandbox&diff=prev&oldid=820535939 diff]). Upmerging is not required as the page is already in :Category:Template test cases and should not be categorized in :Category:Templates used by Twinkle—it's not a template per se, just a test cases subpage. -- Black Falcon (talk) 05:17, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Expand templates used by Twinkle}}

:Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT, and I just don't see any purpose for its existence.  — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  01:05, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

  • Comment I created it solely to fill a redlinked category. Maybe one of the editors who created Template:Twinkle standard installation/testcases may know? Pinging User:AzaToth and User:Allen4names.
    If the categ is not kept, it should not be deleted; it should be merged to both parents: :Category:Template test cases and :Category:Templates used by Twinkle . --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:15, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Delete – I see no particular reason why a merge is needed for just a test case. You may consider reverting [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3ATwinkle_standard_installation%2Ftestcases&action=historysubmit&type=revision&diff=409289271&oldid=408078862 this edit] if it is of concern to you. – Allen4names (contributions) 20:44, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
  • @Allen4names. This category is auto-poulated by a mesh of std sandbox templates. Reverting [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3ATwinkle_standard_installation%2Ftestcases&action=historysubmit&type=revision&diff=409289271&oldid=408078862 that edit] by @AzaToth will (AFAICS)a remove a part of the the testing framework. What is the point of that? What is the benefit of @Mr. Guye's nom? Why is anyone's time being diverted into unravelling this? This is not a content category, and I don't see how it should be of any concern to reader or editors whether this cat exists. Just keep it out of cleanup lists such as Special:WantedCategories, keep it out of CfD, and do something more productive. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:30, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
  • I have no strong feeling, one way or the other. →AzaToth 15:07, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Keep. Since this is auto-populated by templates, it can't be deleted without reverting [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3ATwinkle_standard_installation%2Ftestcases&action=historysubmit&type=revision&diff=409289271&oldid=408078862 that edit] by @AzaToth.
    If that edit is deleted, the cat can be WP:C1 deleted as empty. If it's not reverted, this cat just ends up in Special:WantedCategories, and will be re-created. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:17, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.