Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 November 28

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge. – Fayenatic London 12:31, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Years of the 10th century in Denmark to :Category:10th century in Denmark

:* Propose merging :Category:930s in Denmark to :Category:10th century in Denmark and :Category:930s in Europe

:Nominator's rationale: upmerge per WP:SMALLCAT, only two articles and one article respectively in the both categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:45, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• Support -- Too little content to merit more than a century category. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:46, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. In any case this was a pointless nomination, because it would have removed only the container categs, but none of the individual by-year categs, e.g. :Category:1997 Tamil-language television series debuts and :Category:1999 Tamil-language television series endings. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:18, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

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:* Propose merging :Category:Tamil-language television series debuts by year to :Category:Indian television series debuts by year

:* Propose merging :Category:Tamil-language television series endings by year to :Category:Indian television series endings by year

:Nominator's rationale: All other “X television series debuts/endings” categories are by country, not by language. Tamil is spoken mostly in India. I also intend to include all subcategories in the nomination, but I have a class to get to and homework to catch up on. 2600:387:A:7:0:0:0:89 (talk) 19:06, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

:oppose: This name has been changed from first :Category:Tamil television series debuts by year to :Category:Tamil-language television series debuts by year name. So I do not think there is a need to discuss about this. my opinion, many languages in India. You need to show the Tamil language sequences individually. Do not change this name because the Tamil language series is manufactured in India, Sri Lanka Singapore and Malaysia. I Think You need to keep this name.--Thilakshan (talk) 13:12, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

• If merged, then dual merge also to :Category:Tamil-language television series. Since the latter category hasn't been nominated here, it is still a valid merge target. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:48, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename :Category:Fictional television programming to :Category:Fictional television shows.
No consensus on deleting :Category:Fictional television shows with religious themes. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:39, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

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:* Propose renaming :Category:Fictional television programming to :Category:Fictional television shows

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Fictional television shows with religious themes}}

:Nominator's rationale:

Consistency with real TV show categories. :Category:Fictional TV series is inappropriate because not all elements are TV series. In the second case, the elements are real TV shows that are works of fiction, not fictional shows that do not exist. The current members are all real TV shows involving God and angels. Other religions exist as well, and there is a :Category:Religious television series with similar title but very different scope.

165.91.13.204 (talk) 16:56, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. Clearer scope. I am not certain what to do with the shows with "religious themes". Highlander: The Series had a Catholic monk among the main characters of the 1st season, the religious beliefs of various immortals are plot points in several episodes (and the main character is a Catholic Jacobite from Scotland), the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse appear in a key storyline, and the demon Ahriman appears in person in a controversial storyline that helped the demise of the show. Should it be described as having "religious themes" or is the category definition too vague? Dimadick (talk) 20:53, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose deletion of the second nominated category. No clear rationale for deletion is given and if anything should be changed at all it should be a rename or merge to begin with, not a plain deletion. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:56, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename :Category:Family medicine to :Category:Family medicine in the United States. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:43, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

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:* Propose merging :Category:Family medicine to :Category:Primary care

:Nominator's rationale: The same thing by different names Rathfelder (talk) 14:44, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• oppose: not in the USA, they're not. In fact we have three different articles on primary care, general practice, and family practice. Merge those together, and we can talk. I also note that the articles in the category deal specifically with the US specialty. Mangoe (talk) 16:21, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
• I do want to merge all three, although I am open to argument that they are different things, but I don't see much difference. In the UK Primary Care is regarded as a rather broader term than General Practice, as the latter is generally reserved for what doctors do, where primary care might include other clinicians, who might or might not be affiliated with the General practitioners. And these distinctions don't make much impression on the public, and they change over time. Rathfelder (talk) 23:05, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

::In the US they are considered separate "specialties", and in fact there are other specialties who do also primary care in the US (see [https://www.ahrq.gov/research/findings/factsheets/primary/pcwork1/index.html here] for example).

::Also, the point is that most of the members of the FP category are organizations specifically connected to the US FP practice categorization— not our categories, but how American medicine divides things up. If the Brits don't do it the same way, well, our category structure has to bend to deal with that. Mangoe (talk) 02:55, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

• These articles are supposed to be international in scope. Rathfelder (talk) 21:20, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

::Supposed by whom? This statement begs the question. Mangoe (talk) 02:55, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

• If we are to have categories called American family medicine, American primary care, and the like, I would be quite content, but as it is similar practises in other countries, which are not organised in the same way, are slotted into these categories without much logic. Rathfelder (talk) 22:40, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
• Comment -- This appears to be a specifically American category and might be renamed to :Category: American Family medicine or such like. In UK, primary healthcare includes district nurses, practice nurses, and various non-hospital-based medical auxiliaries. Other countries will be arranged in other ways. so that I am not afraid of having multiple national categories under :Category:Primary healthcare by country. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:54, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
• Support rename alternative but maybe better to :Category:Family medicine in the United States. The article Family practice focuses on both the US and India but I don't believe there is any Indian content in this category. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:01, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
• I'm happy with :Category:Family medicine in the United States, but I think it needs an explanation of how it is different from Primary Care, or General Practice, in the US, if it is indeed distinct from them. Rathfelder (talk) 23:28, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

:* While reading the articles, my impression about these difference is as follows: family medicine and general practice are identical or at least very similar and the difference is mainly a matter of WP:ENGVAR; while primary care is much broader than these two as it includes dentists, pharmacists, primary care in hospitals and perhaps much more. If anyone wants to correct this, feel free to do so. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:34, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

:::In the USA< medical doctors typically train for a medical specialty, but this didn't use to be the case; sixty years ago a very large portion took no specialty and, and those were (and are, because it still happens) "general practitioners". But there is also a specialty specifically for "family care", where doctors prepare to be, essentially, family doctors, that is, the guy/gal that you see on a regular basis, sick or well. From what I gather, the way things are typically organized in UK/Europe is different, and they don't train that way. But in the US, they do. European doctors may dismiss the idea of "specializing" in what they consider a generality, but that's the way it is done here, and most of the membership of the disputed category is organizations related to the specialty. I might agree that :Category:Family physicians might not be justifiable, but that's a different discussion. Mangoe (talk) 13:47, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

::::I agree - there is some relevant info [http://www.aafp.org/medical-school-residency/choosing-fm/model.html at AAFP]; for example, I was a student member of AAFP during medical school, until I decided to specialize in Internal Medicine (and then Infectious Diseases). It's clearly hard to standardize the terms and concepts globally with all of the variation in health care delivery. — soupvector (talk) 17:16, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

::: Primary care (in the US) in no way includes dentists or pharmacists. It's still medicine. It's generally family medicine, pediatrics, and ob/gyn. Natureium (talk) 19:04, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

:::* Thanks, now we're getting somewhere. So it remains a good idea to keep the category apart and the above explanation can be used as a header on the category page. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:29, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

:::::yes it would I agree--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 10:51, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

• So we rename it American Family Medicine, and include it in :Category:General practice and the practitioners in :Category:American primary care physicians? Rathfelder (talk) 16:39, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

::I'm not seeing the need for the qualifier given that, from what I make of others' comments, There's no "not-American" family practice that this needs to be distinguished from. Mangoe (talk) 17:49, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

::: These words - Family doctor, for example - are used in various ways all round the globe. If this category is not clearly American it will attract articles about general practice in other places. Rathfelder (talk) 19:37, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

::::No, not all those words. I've supported upmerging :Category:Family physicians because it doesn't mean this specialty; I'm also seeing that there are WL for "family practice" where it actually means, more or less, the business of a person practicing medicine— not exactly synonymous to a doctor's office as the article on the latter falsely claims, but close. The latter are going to have to be fixed by hand anyway. Other than the latter, it's not attracting those links now. Mangoe (talk) 21:22, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: disperse to :Category:Gang rape in India and :Category:Gang rape in Pakistan, then delete. Pinging the participants to implement this: {{ping|Störm|Grutness|Marcocapelle|p=}}. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:49, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

::Turns out there were only 2 items, so I recategorised them myself. Sorry about the un-needed ping. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:57, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

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:* Propose renaming :Category:Indian sex gangs to :Category:Sex gangs in India

:Nominator's rationale: Created by me and was previously discussed at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_April_15#Category:Pakistani_sex_gangs. I was wrong one year back so wants a new consensus. Same for :Category:Pakistani sex gangs. Störm (talk) 13:08, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• Delete and move articles to {{cl|Gang rape in India}} and {{cl|Gang rape in Pakistan}}. None of these articles is primarily about a sex gang (unlike, say Halifax child sex abuse ring) - they are all about incidents of gang rape. Grutness...wha? 23:26, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
• Support alternative to disperse, the titles of the articles speak for themselves. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:02, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Spouses of Presidents of Estonia. I've taken the liberty to capitalize Presidents, similar to the sibling categories. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 05:50, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:First Ladies and Gentlemen of Estonia to :Category:Spouses of presidents of Estonia

:Nominator's rationale: Follow up this move. 90.191.76.154 (talk) 11:47, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• Support. Obviously. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:32, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge :Category:560 in Wales, :Category:569 in Wales, :Category:560s in Wales and :Category:Years of the 6th century in Wales; no consensus on the rest. – Fayenatic London 13:39, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:560 in Wales to :Category:560 in Europe and :Category:6th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:569 in Wales to :Category:569 in Europe and :Category:6th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1100s establishments in Wales to :Category:1100s establishments in Europe and :Category:12th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1116 establishments in Wales to :Category:1116 establishments in Europe and :Category:12th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1131 establishments in Wales to :Category:1131 establishments in Europe and :Category:12th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1132 establishments in Wales to :Category:1132 establishments in Europe and :Category:12th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1136 in Wales to :Category:1136 in Europe and :Category:12th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1157 in Wales to :Category:1157 in Europe and :Category:12th century in Wales

{{cot|more categories nominated}}

:* Propose merging :Category:1165 in Wales to :Category:1165 in Europe and :Category:12th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1188 in Wales to :Category:1188 in Europe and :Category:12th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1190s in Wales to :Category:1190s in Europe and :Category:12th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1194 in Wales to :Category:1194 in Europe and :Category:12th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1211 in Wales to :Category:1211 in Europe and :Category:13th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1233 in Wales to :Category:1233 in Europe and :Category:13th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1241 in Wales to :Category:1241 in Europe and :Category:13th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1250s in Wales to :Category:1250s in Europe and :Category:13th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1255 in Wales to :Category:1255 in Europe and :Category:13th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1257 in Wales to :Category:1257 in Europe and :Category:13th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1260s in Wales to :Category:1260s in Europe and :Category:13th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1267 in Wales to :Category:1267 in Europe and :Category:13th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1277 in Wales to :Category:1277 in Europe and :Category:13th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1282 in Wales to :Category:1282 in Europe and :Category:13th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1283 in Wales to :Category:1283 in Europe and :Category:13th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1284 in Wales to :Category:1284 in Europe and :Category:13th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1320s in Wales to :Category:1320s in Europe and :Category:14th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1321 in Wales to :Category:1321 in Europe and :Category:14th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1322 in Wales to :Category:1322 in Europe and :Category:14th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1326 in Wales to :Category:1326 in Europe and :Category:14th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1400s in Wales to :Category:1400s in Europe and :Category:15th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1401 in Wales to :Category:1401 in Europe and :Category:15th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1402 in Wales to :Category:1402 in Europe and :Category:15th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1403 in Wales to :Category:1403 in Europe and :Category:15th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1405 in Wales to :Category:1405 in Europe and :Category:15th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1410s in Wales to :Category:1410s in Europe and :Category:15th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1461 in Wales to :Category:1461 in Europe and :Category:15th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1530s disestablishments in Wales to :Category:1538 disestablishments in Europe and :Category:16th-century disestablishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1535 in Wales to :Category:1535 in Europe and :Category:16th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1536 disestablishments in Wales to :Category:1536 disestablishments in Europe and :Category:16th-century disestablishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1537 disestablishments in Wales to :Category:1537 disestablishments in Europe and :Category:16th-century disestablishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1540 in Wales to :Category:1540 in Europe and :Category:16th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1541 establishments in Wales to :Category:1541 establishments in Europe and :Category:16th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1542 establishments in Wales to :Category:1542 establishments in Europe and :Category:16th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1542 in Wales to :Category:1542 in Europe and :Category:16th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1543 in Wales to :Category:1543 in Europe and :Category:16th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1557 establishments in Wales to :Category:1557 establishments in Europe and :Category:16th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1571 in Wales to :Category:1571 in Europe and :Category:16th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1573 in Wales to :Category:1573 in Europe and :Category:16th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1587 establishments in Wales to :Category:1587 establishments in Europe and :Category:16th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1603 establishments in Wales to :Category:1603 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1606 establishments in Wales to :Category:1606 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1607 in Wales to :Category:1607 in Europe and :Category:17th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1608 establishments in Wales to :Category:1608 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1610 in Wales to :Category:1610 in Europe and :Category:17th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1614 establishments in Wales to :Category:1614 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1618 establishments in Wales to :Category:1618 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1622 establishments in Wales to :Category:1622 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1623 establishments in Wales to :Category:1623 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1624 establishments in Wales to :Category:1624 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1625 establishments in Wales to :Category:1625 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1626 establishments in Wales to :Category:1626 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1632 establishments in Wales to :Category:1632 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1640 establishments in Wales to :Category:1640 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1644 in Wales to :Category:1644 in Europe and :Category:17th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1648 in Wales to :Category:1648 in Europe and :Category:17th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1649 establishments in Wales to :Category:1649 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1666 establishments in Wales to :Category:1666 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1670s in Wales to :Category:17th century in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1672 establishments in Wales to :Category:1672 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1673 establishments in Wales to :Category:1673 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1682 establishments in Wales to :Category:1682 establishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century establishments in Wales

:* Propose merging :Category:1694 disestablishments in Wales to :Category:1694 disestablishments in Europe and :Category:17th-century disestablishments in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:560s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1100s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1110s establishments in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1110s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1116 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1130s establishments in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1130s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1131 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1132 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1150s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1160s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1180s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1210s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1230s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1240s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1270s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1280s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1460s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1530s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1536 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1537 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1540s establishments in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1540s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1541 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1550s establishments in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1550s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1557 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1570s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1580s establishments in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1580s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1587 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1600s establishments in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1600s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1603 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1606 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1608 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1610s establishments in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1610s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1614 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1618 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1620s establishments in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1620s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1622 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1623 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1624 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1625 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1626 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1630s establishments in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1630s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1632 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1640 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1640s establishments in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1640s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1649 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1660s establishments in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1660s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1662 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1666 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1670s establishments in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1672 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1673 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1680s establishments in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1680s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1682 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1690s disestablishments in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1690s in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:1694 in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:Years of the 6th century in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:Years of the 12th century in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:Years of the 13th century in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:Years of the 14th century in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:Years of the 15th century in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:Years of the 16th century in Wales

:* Propose deleting :Category:Years of the 17th century in Wales

{{cob}}

:Nominator's rationale: merge/delete per WP:SMALLCAT, the larger amount of categories only have one or two articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:32, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• Support generally, but not quite these targets -- but I am not sure that Europe is an appropriate target after the defeat of Llewellyn the Last in 1285; or perhaps after the Law in Wales Act 1535 (aka Act of Union). The principality (excluding Marcher Lordships) was governed as a separate state under the English crown 1285-1535, after which it was legally part of England (aka England and Wales). Its status was somewhat similar to that of Ireland, which was also a possession of the English Crown. Possibly a British Isles target might be more appropriate than straight into a Europe one. as if Wales was an independent state. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:03, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

:* It would not help a lot if we would drop one tree of smallcats and start another tree of smallcats at the same time. Here is an alternative: we merge everything up to 1535 to the year categories of Europe, while we merge everything after 1535 to the year categories of England. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:19, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

::*@Marcocapelle: Merge Wales to England? No way. Wales did not exist as a legal entity after 1535, but it v much existed as facto entity. Placing Wales in English cats is the sort of thing which gets en.wp's categs in the news, and not in a good way. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:31, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

:::* {{ping|BrownHairedGirl}} So do you prefer to have all of them to be merged to year in Europe categories? I would be fine with that as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:11, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

::::*@Marcocapelle this is a v sensitive issue. Basically, England set out to abolish Wales legally and culturally, and that remains a bitter issue in Wales. I appreciate the categorisation logic, but no matter what categorisation logic drives a merger, there is a serious risk that this would be seen as yet another erasure. Shouts of "Wikipedia abolishes Wales", and headlines in the same vein just like happened with American women writers.

:::::So I would suggest keeping Welsh year+decade categories for all periods when we have equivalent categories for England, and merge to Europe before then. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:39, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

:::::* So that basically means, merge only the first two nominated categories, because there is no :Category:560 in England or :Category:569 in England. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:46, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose as proposed. I'd support a more modest proposal which kept decades after 1000. This removes all years+decades before 1700, which is too severe. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:26, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. The suggestion of deletion was not properly examined. A specific nomination to delete might have a different outcome. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:34, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

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:* Propose renaming :Category:Jewish American mayors to :Category:Jewish mayors of places in the United States

:Nominator's rationale: Standard NC in the mayors tree is "Mayors of places in Country", not "Demonym mayors". Bearcat (talk) 04:34, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

:Keep- Insufficient rationale. Follows the pattern of :Category:Jewish American state governors of the United States, :Category:Hispanic and Latino American mayors, :Category:LGBT mayors of places in the United States and other similar cats. Appropriate renaming is ok though. Mhym (talk) 07:22, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

::Er, :Category:LGBT mayors of places in the United States reflects the pattern of what I proposed as the rename, not the pattern of the existing name, so it doesn't constitute evidence against renaming. Bearcat (talk) 20:21, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

::: I agree with the rename now. Mhym (talk) 21:58, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• Support per nom, and also per example of :Category:LGBT mayors of places in the United States. The other example :Category:Hispanic and Latino American mayors should follow in being nominated for renaming. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:07, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
• Support Down with this tyranny of demonyms. Use plain English. Laurel Lodged (talk) 19:50, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
• Delete The problem is that Jewish does not modify mayor, but American. There is not some title of "Jewish mayor". However I think this is an unjustified intersection of office and ethnicity/religion (which one being Jewish actually is is also complex). :Category:Jewish American politicians does not need to be sub-divided for all offices, and the general scheme of dividing mayors by state they served in is much better than what we are going for here.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:50, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

:* This reasoning would require a batch nomination for all ethnicities. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:17, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

::*Except that Jewishness is an ethno-religious designation, so not at all similar to other ethnicities. The parameters of what is and what is not an acceptable intersection of ethnicity and occupation is decided on an ethnicity by ethnicity basis. Just because in some cases the intersection of an ethnicity and an occupation are notable does not mean that all possible intersections of that occupation with ehtnicity are notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:43, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:17, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Muslim dynasties to :Category:Islamic dynasties

:Nominator's rationale: Per MOS:ISLAMIC. Chicbyaccident (talk) 23:30, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

• Not sure that MOS:ISLAMIC supports the proposed rename. Dynasties consist of people, people are Muslims. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:53, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose - The proposed change would alter the scope of the category. A "Muslim dynasty" is one whose rulers follow Islam; an "Islamic dynasty" is one that declares a caliphate. -- Black Falcon ^(talk) 04:51, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
• : How did you come to that conclusion? Chicbyaccident (talk) 07:17, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
• :: Presupposing that people are Muslims whereas concepts and objects are Islamic, an "Islamic dynasty" would be not just a succession of Muslim rulers but one that relates to Islamic tenets—i.e. a succession of caliphs. -- Black Falcon ^(talk) 20:09, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: keep. – Fayenatic London 07:01, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Malayalam short stories to :Category:Indian short stories

:Nominator's rationale: Not enough articles to warrant a category. Kailash29792 (talk) 07:20, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

• Keep - 6 articles is about enough for a category. Anyway Malayalam is a language; it would be as inappropriate to merge it with Hindi as English literature with French. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:41, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
• Merge to both parent categories, this intersection category is a bit over the top with the limited total amount of Indian short stories articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:02, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

• Keep: It has enough articles to sustain itself as a category, and it's its own language. I agree with User:Peterkingiron in keeping this thing. Paintspot Infez (talk) 19:52, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:55, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Officer of the United States}}

:Nominator's rationale: Too vague. Literally any executive branch politician from Thomas Jefferson (Secretary of State) to Karl Rove (Deputy Chief of Staff) could fit into this category. – JocularJellyfish ^Talk_Contribs 04:02, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• delete Officer of the United States covers a lot more territory than the executive branch, but when it comes down to it, anyone who is an "officer" is so by virtue of occupying some position which would prompt a more specific categorization, rendering this a huge container category of various US office-holders with no direct membership. I just don't see the point. Mangoe (talk) 16:28, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• Delete per above, and the title is singular, too. 165.91.13.204 (talk) 17:06, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
• Delete. Pointless and poorly-named cat. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:33, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: keep. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:13, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Rulers who died as children}}

:Nominator's rationale: :Category:Deaths by age-type category. 165.91.13.63 (talk) 02:46, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• Merge to :Category:Child rulers. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:12, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

:* Changed to weak merge after the below comments, it may be sort of defining after all. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:09, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• oppose It seems to me that nominal child rulers who never assumed adult rule IS defining. Mangoe (talk) 16:31, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose oer Mangoe. I agree, this is defining in this instance. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 18:31, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. Perfectly reasonable, sensible and useful category. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:35, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose per the arguments of Mangoe. I am not certain, however, that all the rulers included were "children" at the time of death. The category includes the emperor Alexios II Komnenos, who was 14-year-old when assassinated by orders of his uncle and co-ruler Andronikos I Komnenos. A teenager. It also includes Edward VI of England who was 15-years-old at the time of his death, and had already taken some decisions of his own regarding his succession. It includes Peter II of Russia, who died when 14-years old and was already engaged to an older woman. (I find our article on Peter II amusing. He was supposedly irresponsible, hated learning/school, and cared only for his own amusement. What do you expect of a boy/man at his age?). Dimadick (talk) 21:13, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
• Keep -- It is defining, since they never got the right actually to rule, due to their age. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:05, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:57, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Meghan Markle}}

:Nominator's rationale: Not enough content for an eponymous category. Why does this exist? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:34, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• Delete. This probably got created because her fiancé has one — but he's got quite a lot more spinoff content than just the article about the upcoming nuptials, while she doesn't. She might certainly have more content to justify this in the future, but we don't create eponymous categories just because they might become more populated someday — we create them only when they already are more populated now. Bearcat (talk) 04:37, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

:It was created by {{u|Johndavies837}} a fairly new editor. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 17:22, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• Keep: As the fiancee of a guy who's in one of the most influential family of all time (and who's 5th in line to being King), I'd definitely support keeping this category. Paintspot Infez (talk) 19:50, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
• Delete with no prejudice against re-creation if and when it becomes more useful. Grutness...wha? 00:34, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
• delete The evidence is that very few British consorts, even of the kings themselves, end up with categories. Mangoe (talk) 14:04, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
• comment - actually, quite a few of them do. Of consorts within the last century Philip, Diana, Camilla, and Catherine all do, as do the Queen Mother and Queen Mary (Mary of Teck). But all of them have considerably more than two articles. Grutness...wha? 00:44, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
• delete Short career for an actress, 15 years and few major roles. Dimadick (talk) 21:18, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
• Delete for now – if there are several articles created regarding her that needs a category, one can be created in the future, but she is not notable for a category right now. CookieMonster755 𝚨-𝛀 18:19, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
• Delete This is too soon. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 18:28, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.