Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 August 19

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Church councils accepted by the Roman Catholic Church to :Category:Church councils accepted by the Catholic Church

:Nominator's rationale: Per below. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support per this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:17, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename as nominated, while leaving the capitalization of "Church" in tact. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Catholic Church Councils by country to :Category:Catholic church councils by country

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic Church Councils held in England to :Category:Catholic church councils held in England

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic Church Councils held in France to :Category:Catholic church councils held in France

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic Church Councils held in Germany to :Category:Catholic church councils held in Germany

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic Church Councils held in Italy to :Category:Catholic church councils held in Italy

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic Church Councils held in Portugal to :Category:Catholic church councils held in Portugal

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic Church Councils held in Spain to :Category:Catholic church councils held in Spain

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic Church Councils held in the Spanish Empire to :Category:Catholic church councils held in the Spanish Empire

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic Church Councils held in the United States to :Category:Catholic church councils held in the United States

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic Church Councils held in Vatican City to :Category:Catholic church councils held in Vatican City

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic Church Councils by century to :Category:Catholic church councils by century

:* Propose renaming :Category:Medieval Roman Catholic Church Councils to :Category:Catholic church councils in the Middle Ages

:* Propose renaming :Category:11th-century Roman Catholic Church Councils to :Category:11th-century Catholic church councils

:* Propose renaming :Category:12th-century Roman Catholic Church Councils to :Category:12th-century Catholic church Councils

:* Propose renaming :Category:13th-century Roman Catholic Church Councils to :Category:13th-century Catholic church councils

:* Propose renaming :Category:14th-century Roman Catholic Church Councils to :Category:14th-century Catholic church councils

:* Propose renaming :Category:15th-century Roman Catholic Church Councils to :Category:15th-century Catholic church councils

:* Propose renaming :Category:16th-century Roman Catholic Church Councils to :Category:16th-century Catholic church councils

:* Propose renaming :Category:17th-century Roman Catholic Church Councils to :Category:17th-century Catholic church councils

:* Propose renaming :Category:18th-century Roman Catholic Church Councils to :Category:18th-century Catholic church councils

:* Propose renaming :Category:19th-century Roman Catholic Church Councils to :Category:19th-century Catholic church councils

:* Propose renaming :Category:20th-century Roman Catholic Church Councils to :Category:20th-century Catholic church councils

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic Church Councils to :Category:Catholic church councils

:Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C: :Category:Catholic Church. Catholic ecumenical councils (-ecumenical). Alternative considerable formula "Catholic Church councils". Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support moving Roman Catholic to Catholic per this earlier discussion. Also support lowercase councils, these are not proper names. I suppose Church may remain with a capital, since it can be read as councils of the Catholic Church. Also possible is e.g. :Category:Councils of the Catholic Church. {{ping|Chicbyaccident}} could you please merge the nominations above into this one? Marcocapelle (talk) 06:12, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support per Alt above at the very least, "Church" needs to be capitalised. Ditto for all above categories. Laurel Lodged (talk) 22:48, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
• Rename but to :Category:Medieval church councils held in England. As far as I can see they are all pre-reformation, so that even "Catholic" is redundant. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:51, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

:: {{ping|Peterkingiron}} I have a hard time seeing a valid argument for dealing with this item as an exception to the other equivalent ones. Chicbyaccident (talk) 11:50, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. Considerations for deletion can be addressed in a separate nomination. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic novels to :Category:Catholic novels

:Nominator's rationale: Per below. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• If kept, support moving Roman Catholic to Catholic per this earlier discussion. But I wonder about the category itself. Christian novel is an established genre, but is Catholic novel as well? Marcocapelle (talk) 17:39, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: {{Relisted}} at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 August 29#Category:Documentary films about Roman Catholicism. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Documentary films about Roman Catholicism to :Category:Documentary films about the Catholic Church

:Nominator's rationale: Per below. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Hesitant, e.g. Catedral (film) is not about the Catholic Church but about building a Catholic church building. I would prefer alt rename to :Category:Documentary films about Catholicism. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:42, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Films critical of Roman Catholicism and Catholics to :Category:Films critical of the Catholic Church

:Nominator's rationale: Per below. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support moving Roman Catholic to Catholic per this earlier discussion. In addition somewhat less hesitant about "Catholic Church" in the category name than the nomination above, it is at least plausible that most or all of the criticism is directed against the Catholic Church as an institute; also per parent :Category:Criticism of the Catholic Church. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:54, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic television to :Category:Catholic television

:Nominator's rationale: Per below. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support moving Roman Catholic to Catholic per this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:55, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic television networks to :Category:Catholic television networks

:Nominator's rationale: Per below. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support moving Roman Catholic to Catholic per this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:56, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic television channels to :Category:Catholic television channels

:Nominator's rationale: Per below. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support moving Roman Catholic to Catholic per this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:56, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic television series to :Category:Catholic television series

:Nominator's rationale: Per below. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support moving Roman Catholic to Catholic per this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:56, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic radio to :Category:Catholic radio

:Nominator's rationale: Per below. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support moving Roman Catholic to Catholic per this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:56, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic radio programs to :Category:Catholic radio programs

:Nominator's rationale: Per below. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support moving Roman Catholic to Catholic per this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:56, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic newspapers and magazines in Italy to :Category:Catholic newspapers and magazines in Italy

:Nominator's rationale: Per below. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support moving Roman Catholic to Catholic per this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:56, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic newspapers and magazines in the United States to :Category:Catholic newspapers and magazines in the United States

:Nominator's rationale: Per below. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support moving Roman Catholic to Catholic per this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:57, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic media to :Category:Catholic media

:Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C: :Category:Catholic culture, :Category:Catholic Church in fiction; :Category:Catholic Church. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support moving Roman Catholic to Catholic per this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:57, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Wikipedia images of Roman Catholic coat of arms to :Category:Catholic coat of arms images

:Nominator's rationale: Per below. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support moving Roman Catholic to Catholic per this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:57, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Roman Catholic personal coat of arms images to :Category:Catholic personal coat of arms images

:Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C: :Category:Catholic Church, :Category:Catholic art; :Category:Catholic art by subject. WP:C2D: Catholic art. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support moving Roman Catholic to Catholic per this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:57, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 06:19, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Byzantine noble families}}

:Nominator's rationale: This category is founded on a misunderstanding: there was no "nobility" in Byzantium in the W. European sense, the term is misleading; and either way most of the families we know belonged to the aristocracy, meaning that its members held high positions as military officers, civil officials, or clerics. :Category:Byzantine families suffices Constantine ✍ 18:19, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• If you mean merge, please nominate as merge, not delete, unless all the content of the subject is in the target. Peterkingiron (talk) 08:16, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

:*I meant delete, to preferably encompass the subcat :Category:Burial sites of Byzantine noble families as well. As explained in the nom, this category is redundant and misleadingly named. Constantine ✍ 08:59, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support - both the categories mentioned are empty, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Burial_sites_of_the_Vatatzes_family&type=revision&diff=855628591&oldid=660974981&diffmode=source emptied by the nominator]. However both were created by user:Westfield2015, almost certainly a sock of the banned user:Pastorwayne (suspected socks including User:WestfieldIns, User:Westfieldme, User:WestfieldWesleyan), notorious for unimaginative user names and the creation at speed of dubious categories. Oculi (talk) 20:53, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support. Both could theoretically be speedied due to being emptied by the creator. -- Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 21:32, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Ancient Greeks by island in Greece. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Ancient Greeks from Aegean Sea}}

:Nominator's rationale: Rather dubious categorization term; pretty much every city and region of note in the ancient Greek world can be described as lying at the "Aegean". Does this really make the people from these areas "Ancient Greeks from [the] Aegean Sea"? Is this a category that serves any purpose? Is a New Yorker an "American from the Atlantic Ocean", to be categorized along with the people of Lisbon, Rio de Janeiro, Havana, or Dublin? Constantine ✍ 17:43, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

• Rename -- This is a destructive nom. Most of these relate to Aegean islands. Hence :Category:Ancient Greeks from Aegean islands and purge of any mainland cities. The nom's criticism would be valid if this contained Athens, Corinth, etc in mainland Greece. Peterkingiron (talk) 08:01, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

:*You are missing the point. The question here is whether this makes sense as a categorization parameter. What does this actually categorize by? What is the epistemological basis for it? Who is helped by this? Who would look for such a category? Do "Ancient Greeks from Aegean islands" have attributes that are different (and specific to them) from Ancient Greeks from the coastal cities of the Aegean, or for that matter Ancient Greeks from southern Italy or the Black Sea? For that matter, how is an Aeginitan more similar to a Samian than to an Athenian? This category is nothing but "X by random geographical feature" and is textbook WP:NON-DEFINING. Constantine ✍ 08:58, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

• Rename per Peterkingiron. This category merely collects together subcats such as :Category:Ancient Cretans, which has validity similar to that of :Category:People from Crete. As the latter is part of :Category:People by island in Greece, an alternative rename would be :Category:Ancient Greeks by island in Greece. Oculi (talk) 23:34, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support alt rename to :Category:Ancient Greeks by island in Greece. The current name and the first proposed rename sound too much like a country subdivision which it is clearly not. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:27, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: withdrawn. ℯxplicit 05:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:70 in military history to :Category:70

:* Propose merging :Category:624 in military history to :Category:624

:* Propose merging :Category:625 in military history to :Category:625

:* Propose merging :Category:933 in military history to :Category:933

:* Propose merging :Category:946 in military history to :Category:946

:* Propose merging :Category:998 in military history to :Category:998

:* Propose merging :Category:1000 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1000

:* Propose merging :Category:1063 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1063

:* Propose merging :Category:1072 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1072

:* Propose merging :Category:1097 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1097

:* Propose merging :Category:1111 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1111

:* Propose merging :Category:1182 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1182

{{cot|more categories nominated}}

:* Propose merging :Category:1202 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1202

:* Propose merging :Category:1241 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1241

:* Propose merging :Category:1242 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1242

:* Propose merging :Category:1266 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1266

:* Propose merging :Category:1289 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1289

:* Propose merging :Category:1304 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1304

:* Propose merging :Category:1314 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1314

:* Propose merging :Category:1322 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1322

:* Propose merging :Category:1326 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1326

:* Propose merging :Category:1333 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1333

:* Propose merging :Category:1345 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1345

:* Propose merging :Category:1346 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1346

:* Propose merging :Category:1359 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1359

:* Propose merging :Category:1368 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1368

:* Propose merging :Category:1370 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1370

:* Propose merging :Category:1371 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1371

:* Propose merging :Category:1381 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1381

:* Propose merging :Category:1386 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1386

:* Propose merging :Category:1389 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1389

:* Propose merging :Category:1396 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1396

:* Propose merging :Category:1403 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1403

:* Propose merging :Category:1404 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1404

:* Propose merging :Category:1416 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1416

:* Propose merging :Category:1441 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1441

:* Propose merging :Category:1444 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1444

:* Propose merging :Category:1453 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1453

:* Propose merging :Category:1459 in military history to :Category:1459

:* Propose merging :Category:1479 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1479

:* Propose merging :Category:1480 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1480

:* Propose merging :Category:1481 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1481

:* Propose merging :Category:1482 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1482

:* Propose merging :Category:1483 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1483

:* Propose merging :Category:1484 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1484

:* Propose merging :Category:1485 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1485

:* Propose merging :Category:1486 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1486

:* Propose merging :Category:1487 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1487

:* Propose merging :Category:1488 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1488

:* Propose merging :Category:1489 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1489

:* Propose merging :Category:1490 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1490

:* Propose merging :Category:1491 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1491

:* Propose merging :Category:1492 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1492

:* Propose merging :Category:1493 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1493

:* Propose merging :Category:1494 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1494

:* Propose merging :Category:1495 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1495

:* Propose merging :Category:1496 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1496

{{cob}}

:* Propose merging :Category:1497 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1497

:* Propose merging :Category:1498 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1498

:* Propose merging :Category:1499 in military history to :Category:Conflicts in 1499

:Nominator's rationale: downmerge per WP:OVERLAPCAT, at least until 1500 the content of the trees of :Category:Military history by year and :Category:Conflicts by year nearly coincide. In the above nomination there is only one exception, the Council of Mantua (1459) is about military history but not about a conflict, so for 1459 an upmerge rather than a downmerge is proposed. Also for the years before 1000 an upmerge is proposed, since we do not have Conflicts by year categories for those earlier years.

• Keep these categories and merge conflicts into these instead as the more general category. Tim! (talk) 08:06, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
• Keep all - this is not WP:OVERLAPCAT. There is no problem whatever when a category comprises a single subcategory. Moreover these categories have not been developed: [https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?psid=5503187 petscan] readily finds a treaty and 2 other articles for :Category:1459 in military history, and would no doubt work wonders on the others. Further to the lack of development there is no :Category:1066 in military history but there is :Category:Conflicts in 1066. This scheme needs to improved rather than partially dismantled. Moreover there are dozens of treaties such as :Category:1290s treaties just sitting there awaiting categorisation in :Category:XXXX in military history. Oculi (talk) 12:22, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
• Keep all. If at all conflicts should be merge to "military history" (which is wider - including formation of units, new military concepts and weapons, etc.). The military history by year is a very useful category list.Icewhiz (talk) 12:40, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
• Reverse Merge -- I do not believe that those who have commented this far have sampled the categories. We have a series of parallel category series that are covering much the same ground at remote periods of history. We do not need such multiple trees. Generally, conflicts are better populated than conflicts. I am open to merging both to a third (perhaps new) category, if a better suggestion is made. Generally, the military history contains little but the conflicts subcat. These thin thread small categories do not aid navigation. Peterkingiron (talk) 08:12, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
• Withdraw nomination, while I see the merits of a reverse merge as suggested by User:Tim! and per excellent comments of User:Peterkingiron, a reverse merge requires a completely different set of categories to be nominated. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:05, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

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