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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 September 2

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= September 2 =

== Category:Video games based on films by director ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Video games based on films if not already in other sub-cats of that one, then delete. – Fayenatic London 19:29, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Video games based on films by director}}

:Video games based on films by director

:Nominator's rationale: The soundtrack tree below is a pretty tenuous connection but this is really ropy: film directors have nothing to do with video game spinoffs of their franchises. I recommend a {{tl|catseealso}} where appropriate. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:20, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Soundtracks to films by director ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Delete. Timrollpickering 21:18, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Soundtracks to films by director}}

:Soundtracks to films by director

:Nominator's rationale: This scheme just seems like an ill-advised intersection of who scored an album and who directed a film paired with that album. Plus, the individual subcategories are now in inappropriate schemes (e.g. :Category:Soundtracks to films directed by Ang Lee is under :Category:Films directed by Ang Lee but the :Category:Films scheme is for movies and the :Category:Soundtracks scheme is for albums--we now have albums subcategorized under films). ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:15, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

  • Comment: As the creator of a lot of those categories, I suggest that it is meaningful, given that many directors work with the same composers or have soundtracks that are similar in style. You raise a good point about their parent categories, though, and I'll fix that for the categories I created. Trivialist (talk) 18:51, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
  • {{Ping|Trivialist}} Use {{tl|catseealso}}? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:22, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
  • If the categories aren't deleted, that's how I'll link them going forward. For now I'll hold off on any major changes, aside from taking them out of the "Films directed by..." categories Trivialist (talk) 19:29, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
  • Delete per WP:OC where the very second sentence reads, ' However, not every verifiable fact (or the intersection of two or more such facts) in an article requires an associated category.' These categories are intersections. --Richhoncho (talk) 09:57, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:MBTI types ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: speedily renamed already. – Fayenatic London 19:26, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:MBTI types to :Category:Myers–Briggs Type Indicator types

:Nominator's rationale: To match name of main article, Myers–Briggs Type Indicator. Trivialist (talk) 15:59, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

  • Speedy rename per main article. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:25, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
  • rename to match the main article --Lenticel (talk) 00:45, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Banned Sahrawi human rights organizations ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 06:36, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Banned Sahrawi human rights organizations to :Category:Human rights organizations based in Western Sahara

:Nominator's rationale: All the Human rights organizations based in Western Sahara have been banned by Morocco. The category is, sadly, superfluous. Rathfelder (talk) 15:56, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Academic journals in Argentina ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename all to "of" form. (It really helps if the nominator includes the proposed names so the closer doesn't have to construct them.) Good Ol’factory (talk) 12:35, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Academic journals in Argentina to :Category:Academic journals of Argentina

:Nominator's rationale: Also

Journals aren't physical entities that have an established location. As such, Academic journals in Foo reads incorrect (unless the categories contain articles about journal culture in each country, which is not the case). Alternatively, Each of the categories could probably be merged to Category:Academic journals published in Foo. Not sure why there's currently a separation between the two. --Paul_012 (talk) 13:51, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

  • Support merging into "Academic journals published in Foo", unless someone can demonstrate the need for both categories. The "of Foo" variant is also fine, and there are existing categories such as :Category:Defunct journals of the United Kingdom, so consolidation of category names might be useful, one way or the other. GregorB (talk) 08:29, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
  • Rename to "published in". They will all in practice have a primary place of publication, even if called "international". Peterkingiron (talk) 16:41, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
  • Support "of". Kraose (talk) 08:04, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
  • Note: I just notified Fgnievinski, who created the first categories, of the discussion. --Paul_012 (talk) 04:28, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Jews and Judaism in Ottoman Palestine ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: do not merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 12:33, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Jews and Judaism in Ottoman Palestine to :Category:Jews and Judaism in Ottoman Syria

:Nominator's rationale: Newly created category (2 Sep 2018) into much of :Category:Jews and Judaism in Ottoman Syria has been moved into. Ottoman Palestine is an ill-defined concept - during the period there were a number of divisions by Ottoman authorities of Ottoman Syria, none of which included a "Palestine" - the closest being perhaps Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem - which did not include the northern parts of what is generally considered Palestine (e.g. Nablus, Haifa, the Galilee). The pre-1865 under Damascus Eyalet did not have a separate Palestine division. Furthermore, Jewish activities during this period extended into the southern bits of modern day Syria. Icewhiz (talk) 12:38, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

::* Your point is clear. But then why do you not nominate :Category:Ottoman Palestine and :Category:Jews in Ottoman Palestine and :Category:Arabs in Ottoman Palestine? With your current proposal you merely create a gap in the tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:11, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

:::* What prodded me to nom was the re-catting of a bunch of articles I have watchlisted. In as much as this cat discussion ends up with a merge back to Ottoman Syria, it would make sense to merge many of the other "Ottoman Palestine" cats as well - on the same grounds.Icewhiz (talk) 15:19, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

:* That does not address the key issue: if you do not want to touch :Category:Ottoman Palestine then why remove valid content from it? Marcocapelle (talk) 19:47, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

:* Another issue is the fact that Old Yishuv does not coincide with the Ottoman period. For that matter, I have been thinking about renaming the nominated category to :Category:Yishuv in the Ottoman period or :Category:Yishuv in the Ottoman Empire. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:30, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

  • Oppose come back with a more comprehensive proposal please. The bones of it are visible above. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:10, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
  • {{ping|Greyshark09}} Regarding [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Rabbis_in_Ottoman_Galilee&oldid=prev&diff=857973987 your revert]: nobody would ever argue that Palestine (region) is equal to Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem. Instead, Palestine (region) is roughly equivalent to Holy Land and both have been geographical terms in their own right throughout the course of history. I'm adding it here as a comment in this discussion because it seems that you misunderstand the scope of the nominated category. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:01, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
  • : The boundaries of the Holy Land to the north, east, and south are far from defined. Gaza is usually in, Eilat is generally out (but could be in), large parts of Lebanon are in, Damascus could be in or out (Christian maps, given Conversion of Paul the Apostle on the road, are actually more likely to include). Prior to 1923 - both Palestine and the Holy Land are ill defined and very variable.Icewhiz (talk) 19:19, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

::* There may be some question marks at the borders of the region, but Judea, Samaria and Galilee are definitely included. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:45, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

:::Galilee was not generally included in the definition of Palestine in Ottoman times. You can find plenty of references on Zahir al-Umar as the ruler of Acre and all Galilee in 18th century in parallel with another Ottoman Sanjak-bey ruler of in Jerusalem, Gaza and Nablus; concerning Jews back then - another example is 19th century Makhlouf Eldaoudi who was the chief rabbi of Acre, Haifa, Safed and Tiberias (1889–1909 "Hakham Bashi of Ottoman Galilee") in parallel with Yaakov Shaul Elyashar as Chief rabbi of Jerusalem ("Hakham Bashi of Ottoman Palestine"). Those regions were clearly separate in Ottoman era.GreyShark (dibra) 06:20, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

::*Marcopelle, you are anachronistically trying to use the borders of Mandatory Palestine to Palestine in Ottoman period. Why not using the borders of Ottoman Israel then? Anyway, Holy Land is a Christian concept, so its borders are less relevant to the Ottoman period.GreyShark (dibra) 05:42, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

:::* No, the use of Palestine as a geographical region is much older than Mandatory Palestine. The Romans adopted the already existing name to create the province Syria Palaestina. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:02, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

::::So was the use of Israel and Canaan in even older times - then why don't we use the concept Ottoman Israel or Ottoman Canaan for the matter? How differing were the borders of Ottoman Palestine vs. Ottoman Israel vs. Ottoman Canaan? Do not be ridiculous.GreyShark (dibra) 06:22, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

::::: The usage of Israel and Canaan had diminished after ancient times, while the usage of Palestine and Holy Land hadn't. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:41, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

:::: What is actually well defined - throughout the Ottoman period - is Ottoman Syria.Icewhiz (talk) 06:40, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

::::: Is it? It was a historical region, like Palestine. The fact that a collection of administrative subdivisions of the Ottoman Empire coincided with the historical region is just coincidental. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

  • Oppose as nom. The anachronism argument is bogus. Ottoman-era history of the region of Palestine is a topic of encyclopaedia value, as shown e.g. in the First Aliyah article. There is no ambiguity whatsoever as to what people refer to when talking about "Ottoman Palestine", and the internal political borders of the time do not matter much. Similarly, one could argue that you cannot speak about 19th-century history of the Federal Republic of Germany because no state existed in the 19th century in the current borders of present-day Germany. Every time it is possible, Wikipedia history categories are organised along present-day geographical entities, with nuances of administrative boundaries well enough treated in the article detail. Trying to do "better" in the name of anachronism would, in fact, bring a much, much worse solution. Perfect is the enemy of good. Place Clichy (talk) 16:04, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
  • : {{ping|Place Clichy}} - should we created an Ottoman Israel category, if we are organizing along present-day geographical entities ? Icewhiz (talk) 11:08, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose nom. The problem is that First Aliyah began in 1882. Syria was then split in 1887, with a Vilaret of Beirut. Jews were not interested in return to Damascus or other parts of northern Syria, but they did want to return to what had been ancient Israel. One of the difficulties is that Palestine is cognate with Philistia and probably derived from it, but the Philistines occupied a coastal strip in the southern part of Mandatory Palestine. We need to stick with Ottoman Palestine, even though the main article is a redirect to a section of History of Palestine. Sometimes it is impractical to have a perfect category system: life is too complicated for that. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:57, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Destroyed landmarks in Spain demolished during Habsburg Spain ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 12:30, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting :Category:Destroyed landmarks in Spain demolished during Habsburg Spain

:* Propose deleting :Category:Destroyed landmarks in Spain demolished during Early Bourbons until Napoleonic invasion in Spain‎

:* Propose deleting :Category:Destroyed landmarks in Spain demolished during the Spanish confiscation period‎

:Nominator's rationale: delete as trivial intersections. Neither of these periods is particularly known for demolishing landmarks. For the third category in particular, destruction - if it happened at all - often took place decades after confiscation, so there was no relationship between those events. There is no need to merge, since the articles are already in :Category:Demolished buildings and structures in Spain or in one of its subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:56, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Partially demolished landmarks in Spain ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 12:28, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Partially demolished landmarks in Spain}}

:Nominator's rationale:

: Option A: delete as "partially demolished" is a non-defining characteristic.

: Option B: rename to :Category:Partially demolished buildings and structures in Spain per actual content. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:45, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

  • Option B to be consisted with parent category :Category:Buildings and structures in Spain. Note however, that "partially demolished" seems to be another way to describe ruins. "the remains of human-made architecture: structures that were once intact have fallen, as time went by, into a state of partial or total disrepair, due to lack of maintenance or deliberate acts of destruction." Dimadick (talk) 08:01, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment - there is {{cl|Ruins in Spain}}. Oculi (talk) 09:27, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

:* "Ruin" does not apply to any of the three articles currently in the category. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:18, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

:* All three articles are already in the tree of :Category:Buildings and structures in Spain so this is effectively supporting option A. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:23, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Vandalized works of art in the United States ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Keep CA, IN, MD, NY, TX, DC, MA, WI; merge the rest as nominated'''. Good Ol’factory (talk) 12:40, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Alabama to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Alaska to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Arkansas to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in California to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

{| class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed " style="background: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid Silver; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"

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! style="background: #{{main other|F0F2F5|CCFFCC}}; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:center; " | more categories nominated

|-

| style="border: solid 1px Silver; padding: 0.6em; background: White;" |

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Colorado to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Georgia (U.S. state) to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Idaho to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Indiana to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Kentucky to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Louisiana to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Maryland to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Massachusetts to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Michigan to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Missouri to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in New Jersey to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in New York (state) to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in North Carolina to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Ohio to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Oregon to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Pennsylvania to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Rhode Island to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Texas to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Virginia to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Washington, D.C. to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

:* 'Propose merging :Category:Vandalized works of art in Wisconsin to :Category:Vandalized works of art in the United States

{{cob}}

:Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT: too little content per state. This is follow-up on this earlier discussion.

  • Keep CA (6), IN (5), MD (6), NY (14), and TX (7); weak keep DC, MA, WI (4 each); and merge the rest per WP:SMALLCAT with no objection to recreation if they get over 4 or 5 pages. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 07:02, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
  • Support selective merge per LaundryPizza03. Some categories are large enough. शिव साहिल/Shiv Sahil (talk) 16:39, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
  • |Agree selective merge Peterkingiron (talk) 16:58, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.