Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 January 3

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 00:26, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Encounters in Pakistan}}

:Nominator's rationale: Small category (only one article), unlikely (even in the case of a coup) to become large. The present article is already listed in appropriate categories. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 21:37, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

::Please report to appropriate WikiProjects. I don't know enough about the area to determine. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 21:40, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

• Delete one event does not justify a category.John Pack Lambert (talk) 07:59, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
• Delete Struggled to even understand this one, see "Encounter killings by police. With only one, seems best to delete it. Nigej (talk) 14:14, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Ukrainian academics. Mz7 (talk) 01:50, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Krypiakevych Institute of Ukrainian Studies research fellow to :Category:Krypiakevych Institute of Ukrainian Studies people

:Nominator's rationale: Only one article Rathfelder (talk) 20:26, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:39, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Alt merge to :Category:Ukrainian academics, a similar case as the Potebna Institute nomination further down. The parent category is an otherwise empty category and can be deleted as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:14, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Happy with that proposal. Rathfelder (talk) 13:02, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
• Merge to :Category:Ukrainian academics.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:33, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Krymskyi Institute of Oriental Studies people. Mz7 (talk) 01:51, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Krymskyi Institute of Oriental Studies research fellows to :Category:Krymskyi Institute of Oriental Studies people

:Nominator's rationale: Only one article Rathfelder (talk) 20:26, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:39, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Merge per nom. The sibling category can also be upmerged. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:44, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Merge to :Category:Ukrainian academics. We do not need this or the parent category. The one person in the directors category should be merged to the category on the institute if it exists.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:34, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Ukrainian academics. Mz7 (talk) 01:51, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Potebnia Institute of Linguistics research fellow to :Category:Ukrainian academics

:Nominator's rationale: Only one article Rathfelder (talk) 20:25, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:38, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nom, implying that the parent :Category:Potebnia Institute of Linguistics people can be deleted as empty. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:09, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Merge per nom.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:34, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. Mz7 (talk) 01:58, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:University of Kharkiv researchers to :Category:University of Kharkiv faculty‎

:Nominator's rationale: Only one article, which doesnt mention University of Kharkiv. Rathfelder (talk) 20:22, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:38, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Merge or delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:20, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Delete I removed the sole article in this category because the article doesn't mention the university at all. Natureium (talk) 01:35, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. The category looks empty to me, so I just deleted it. Mz7 (talk) 02:00, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Institute of History of Ukraine research fellow to :Category:Ukrainian academics

:Nominator's rationale: Only one article Rathfelder (talk) 20:21, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:38, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Alt merge to its immediate parent :Category:Institute of History of Ukraine people. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:19, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Merge per nom. We od not need to categorize people by every organization they have worked with.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:35, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Ukrainian scientists. Mz7 (talk) 02:02, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Bakul Institute of Superhard Materials research fellow to :Category:Ukrainian scientists

:Nominator's rationale: Only one article, with just a passing mention of his research fellowship. Rathfelder (talk) 20:20, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:38, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nom, implying that the parent :Category:Bakul Institute of Superhard Materials people can be deleted as empty. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:20, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: procedural close, the category has been deleted by User:Liz and no longer exists. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 18:56, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Palestinian researchers to :Category:Palestinian academics

:Nominator's rationale: Only one article, about a person who is not actually a Palestinian. Rathfelder (talk) 20:15, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:37, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:21, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Comment I removed John_H._Sununu from the category as he is not actually a Palestinian. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:33, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
• Comment With the removal of its contents, this is now an empty category. Any likelihood of repopulation? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:45, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 09:11, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|MTV Award winners}}

:Nominator's rationale: No such thing as an "MTV Award" - both MTV Award and MTV Music Award redirect to MTV Video Music Award which already has an extensive hierarchy at {{cl|MTV Video Music Awards}} Le Deluge (talk) 16:46, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Delete. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:31, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Ivy League academics}}

:Nominator's rationale: This already exists for each of the individual schools. If for some reason this is deemed to be a necessary category, it should be only as a container category. Natureium (talk) 16:16, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:19, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Also the US term is faculty; eg {{cl|Harvard University faculty}}. Oculi (talk) 16:15, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
• Delete we do not categorize academics by the sports league their university belongs to.John Pack Lambert (talk) 08:00, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
• Delete per JPL; we categorize academics by school, not by the sports conference the school belongs to. We don't have a "Big South academics" category. The sports league is not relevant to the academics part. This seems like an "elite academics" category, which of course is too subjective. Levivich (talk) 21:16, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
• Delete WP:SNOW close. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:34, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: relisted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 February 26#Category:African-American football quarterbacks. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 05:26, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|African-American football quarterbacks}}

:Nominator's rationale: Not a defining characteristic per WP:CATDEF; non-notable intersection of race and football position Natureium (talk) 16:10, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nom, per WP:EGRS. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:22, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

:* Merge to :Category:African-American players of American football per comment below. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:19, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

• Delete the ERGS rules say avoid the lowest level intersection. This is especially true of ethnicity categories often applied more as race categories. Unless you can convince me that men like Ezekiel Ansah who never set foot in the US before college are being excluded from African-American categories I am unconvinced they are anything other than race categories.John Pack Lambert (talk) 08:02, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
• Keep and make it a sub-category of :Category:African-American players of American football. Aside from that category, we also have similar categories (e.g., :Category:Jewish golfers, :Category:Female bullfighters). I know, WP:OSE, but the quarterback position in the NFL has historically (and to this day) had very few AA players. AA QBs, and their rarity, are often discussed by reliable sources, and cited as an example of systemic racism. When an individual AA QB is written about in the media, it's often noted that they are one of the few AA QBs. I think in this case, AA QB is a notable sub-category of AA football players, per RSes. For example: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/09/18/texas-superintendent-regrets-disparaging-deshaun-watson-on-basis-of-being-a-black-qb/?utm_term=.10057af24d95] [http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24761447/school-head-resigns-comment-black-quarterbacks] [https://www.si.com/nfl/list-first-black-starting-quarterback-every-team] [https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/09/25/first-black-starting-qb-reflects-on-changes-in-game-society/37930265/] Levivich (talk) 21:28, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
• Delete and listify. Per WP:OCEGRS, there needs to be potential for a substantial article (not just a list) for the topic to be made an ethnic-based subcategory. I don't think it is the case here, however a list would be admissible IMHO. Place Clichy (talk) 19:36, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 00:47, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|India political party color templates}}

:Nominator's rationale: Empty: redundant to :Category:India political party colour templates, which should be used on all such pages in any case per ENGVAR. Vanamonde (talk) 07:04, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

• Delete as is redundant. Rubbish computer (Talk: Contribs) 10:56, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Delete as above. Nigej (talk) 10:41, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 23:34, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting :Category:Jews and Judaism in Ankara

:Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:SMALLCAT, currently only one article. There is no need to merge because the article is already in :Category:Places of worship in Ankara and in :Category:Synagogues in Turkey. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:00, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Rubbish computer (Talk: Contribs) 10:55, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Tiny category, with little scope for expansion. Dimadick (talk) 12:45, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:36, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Delete I am not fully convinced the one article is even notable. It clearly needs more and better sourcing if it is.John Pack Lambert (talk) 08:04, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Nigej (talk) 10:42, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge all per this concurrent CfD with similar arguments. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 05:35, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Aix-en-Provence to :Category:Buildings and structures in Aix-en-Provence‎ and :Category:Churches in Bouches-du-Rhône

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Bordeaux to :Category:Buildings and structures in Bordeaux‎ and :Category:Churches in Gironde

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Caen to :Category:Buildings and structures in Caen‎ and :Category:Churches in Calvados (department)

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Grenoble to :Category:Buildings and structures in Grenoble‎ and :Category:Churches in Isère

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Lille to :Category:Buildings and structures in Lille‎ and :Category:Churches in Nord (French department)‎

{{cot|more categories nominated}}

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Marseille to :Category:Buildings and structures in Marseille‎ and :Category:Churches in Bouches-du-Rhône

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Metz to :Category:Buildings and structures in Metz‎ and :Category:Churches in Moselle (department)

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Nancy, France to :Category:Buildings and structures in Nancy, France‎ and :Category:Churches in Meurthe-et-Moselle

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Nantes to :Category:Buildings and structures in Nantes‎ and :Category:Churches in Loire-Atlantique

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Nice to :Category:Buildings and structures in Nice‎ and :Category:Churches in Alpes-Maritimes

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Poitiers to :Category:Buildings and structures in Poitiers‎ and :Category:Religion in Poitiers and :Category:Churches in Vienne

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Reims to :Category:Buildings and structures in Reims‎ and :Category:Churches in Marne

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Rouen to :Category:Buildings and structures in Rouen‎ and :Category:Churches in Seine-Maritime‎

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Toulouse to :Category:Buildings and structures in Toulouse‎ and :Category:Churches in Haute-Garonne

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Troyes to :Category:Buildings and structures in Troyes‎ and :Category:Churches in Aube

:* Propose merging :Category:Churches in Versailles to :Category:Buildings and structures in Versailles‎ and :Category:Churches in Yvelines

{{cob}}

:Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, all the above categories only contain 1 article and/or 1 (Roman Catholic) subcategory. See also this earlier nomination which is still open. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:52, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:36, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. WP:SMALLCAT does not apply to all categories which are currently small. It is for cats which "by their very definition, will never have more than a few members, unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme".

:I checked the first five categories nominated. All one of those has a subcat for churches of RC denomination. Whatever your intention here, the effect of this merger is that non-Catholic churches in those cities will not be categorised as churches within the same area. That is not an NPOV outcome. (If your aim was to promote the hardline Catholic view that non-Catholic churches are not "real" churches, this would be a good way of doing it).

:This whole process of trying to rip out layers of container categories is fundamentally mistaken, because it pointlessly disrupts the consistency of the category system. That makes it harder to maintain and to navigate.

:By removing this layer from cities where we do already have a reasonable number of articles per city, a reader looking at the set of churches-by-city categories would get the false impression that there are few or no articles on churches in that city.

:The category system is a directional lattice based on consistency. Removing intermediate parts of that lattice because the article structure is underdeveloped undermines one of the pillars of that consistency principle, with no advantage to readers or editors. It is a pointless, disruptive make-work, both now and in the future when those categories are needed. See WP:DEMOLISH. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:07, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

:* My aim is certainly not to promote the hardline Catholic view that non-Catholic churches are not real churches, this particular impact occurs in Italy because France happens to be a more than 90% Catholic country. Other than that, this discussion is continued at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_5#Churches_by_city_(Europe,_dual_merge). Marcocapelle (talk) 14:14, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

• Merge Most/Neutral on Lille, Nice, Reims, and Versailles 12 of the 16 categories have no non-Catholic churches so it's hard to see what the categories provide. RevelationDirect (talk) 19:19, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
• Merge categories should be based on articles we have, not some mythic hope for future articles. The fact is most non-Catholic Church buildings are not notable, so the population of these categories seems unlikely.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:38, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: dual merge to :Category:Stateless people and :Category:Thai people. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 05:44, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Stateless people from Thailand to :Category:Stateless people

:Nominator's rationale: No need to diffuse parent. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:14, 3 January 2019 (UTC)nati

• Support per nom - but also merge to :Category:Thai people which by the way should be renamed to :Category:People from Thailand. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:41, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Regarding the suggested renaming, that would conflict with all the members of :Category:People by nationality. Upmerging the nominated category to :Category:Thai people would be inaccurate, since, as explained on the category page, "Although these persons do not hold Thai nationality, the category is included as a subcategory of Category:Thai people for convenience." At any rate, we need a better way to categorise the category members under the Thailand tree. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:05, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• Alternative suggestion: let us create :Category:People from Thailand as a parent of :Category:Thai people and merge :Category:Stateless people from Thailand also to :Category:People from Thailand. Of course the format of :Category:People from Thailand differs from the usual format but that is needed to avoid ambiguity. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:26, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
• On the other hand, Mong and Ekkaphon have since been granted citizenship, so they can now be accurately listed under :Category:Thai people, and the distinction probably isn't as important now. I would still prefer to have an option for categorising articles (including such people) related to Thai nationality issues though. --Paul_012 (talk) 01:58, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
• Ok so if merged you agree with the dual merge to :Category:Thai people. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:35, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
• Keep, but also open to other options. Being a stateless person from Thailand is a DEFINING characteristic at least for Mong Thongdee, whose notability mostly stems from the fact, so I would rather we avoided simply discarding the category. An alternative would be to recategorise the members to something that also covers Thai nationality law (There are many by-country cats under :Category:Nationality law, but placing individual persons directly under :Category:Thai nationality law doesn't seem optimal either.) --Paul_012 (talk) 09:05, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

:* I think stateless people is just a too small group of people for diffusing by country in any way. Or at least coverage of this group of people by Wikipedia is too limited to do that. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:31, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

:*I've thought a bit more about this, and the nationality law category is probably the best choice here; revoking my opposition. --Paul_012 (talk) 14:00, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

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