Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 September 1

:* Propose renaming :Category:1870s LGBT-related media to :Category:1870s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:1880s LGBT-related media to :Category:1880s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:1890s LGBT-related media to :Category:1890s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:1920s LGBT-related media to :Category:1920s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:1930s LGBT-related media to :Category:1930s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:1940s LGBT-related media to :Category:1940s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:1950s LGBT-related media to :Category:1950s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:1960s LGBT-related media to :Category:1960s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:1970s LGBT-related media to :Category:1970s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:1980s LGBT-related media to :Category:1980s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:1990s LGBT-related media to :Category:1990s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:2000s LGBT-related media to :Category:2000s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:2010s LGBT-related media to :Category:2010s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media by continent to :Category:LGBT-themed media by continent

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media by country to :Category:LGBT-themed media by country

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media by decade to :Category:LGBT-themed media by decade

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media by genre to :Category:LGBT-themed media by genre

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media by medium to :Category:LGBT-themed media by medium

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media by region to :Category:LGBT-themed media by region

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in Australia to :Category:LGBT-themed media in Australia

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in Canada to :Category:LGBT-themed media in Canada

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in China to :Category:LGBT-themed media in China

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in Denmark to :Category:LGBT-themed media in Denmark

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in France to :Category:LGBT-themed media in France

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in Germany to :Category:LGBT-themed media in Germany

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in Hungary to :Category:LGBT-themed media in Hungary

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in India to :Category:LGBT-themed media in India

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in Ireland to :Category:LGBT-themed media in Ireland

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in Italy to :Category:LGBT-themed media in Italy

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in Japan to :Category:LGBT-themed media in Japan

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in Mexico to :Category:LGBT-themed media in Mexico

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in Pakistan to :Category:LGBT-themed media in Pakistan

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in Romania to :Category:LGBT-themed media in Romania

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in Spain to :Category:LGBT-themed media in Spain

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in Sweden to :Category:LGBT-themed media in Sweden

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in the Czech Republic to :Category:LGBT-themed media in the Czech Republic

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in the Netherlands to :Category:LGBT-themed media in the Netherlands

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in the United Kingdom to :Category:LGBT-themed media in the United Kingdom

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related media in the United States to :Category:LGBT-themed media in the United States

:* Propose renaming :Category:American LGBT-related magazines to :Category:American LGBT-themed magazines

:* Propose renaming :Category:Lesbian-related media in the United States to :Category:Lesbian-themed media in the United States

:* Propose renaming :Category:Lesbian-related media to :Category:Lesbian-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:Intersex-related media to :Category:Intersex-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:2000s LGBT-related media to :Category:2000s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:2010s LGBT-related media to :Category:2010s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:2020s LGBT-related media to :Category:2020s LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:Bisexuality-related media to :Category:Bisexuality-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:Homosexuality-related media to :Category:Homosexuality-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:Lists of LGBT-related media to :Category:Lists of LGBT-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:Cross-dressing-related media to :Category:Cross-dressing-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT and military-related media to :Category:LGBT and military-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:Transgender and transsexual-related media to :Category:Transgender and transsexual-themed media

:* Propose renaming :Category:Australian LGBT-related magazines to :Category:Australian LGBT-themed magazines

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related magazines to :Category:LGBT-themed magazines

:* Propose renaming :Category:Lesbian-related magazines to :Category:Lesbian-themed magazines

:* Propose renaming :Category:Dutch LGBT-related magazines to :Category:Dutch LGBT-themed magazines

:* Propose renaming :Category:Bisexuality-related magazines to :Category:Bisexuality-themed magazines

:* Propose renaming :Category:French LGBT-related magazines to :Category:French LGBT-themed magazines

:* Propose renaming :Category:German LGBT-related magazines to :Category:German LGBT-themed magazines

:* Propose renaming :Category:Indian LGBT-related magazines to :Category:Indian LGBT-themed magazines

:* Propose renaming :Category:British LGBT-related magazines to :Category:British LGBT-themed magazines

:* Propose renaming :Category:English LGBT-related magazines to :Category:English LGBT-themed magazines

:* Propose renaming :Category:Canadian LGBT-related magazines to :Category:Canadian LGBT-themed magazines

:* Propose renaming :Category:Japanese LGBT-related magazines to :Category:Japanese LGBT-themed magazines

:* Propose renaming :Category:Scottish LGBT-related magazines to :Category:Scottish LGBT-themed magazines

:* Propose renaming :Category:Hungarian LGBT-related magazines to :Category:Hungarian LGBT-themed magazines

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related radio programs to :Category:LGBT-themed radio programs

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related radio stations to :Category:LGBT-themed radio stations

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related radio to :Category:LGBT-themed radio

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related magazine stubs to :Category:LGBT-themed magazine stubs

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related newspapers in Australia to :Category:LGBT-themed newspapers in Australia

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related newspapers in Canada to :Category:LGBT-themed newspapers in Canada

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related newspapers in the United Kingdom to :Category:LGBT-themed newspapers in the United Kingdom

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related newspapers in the United States to :Category:LGBT-themed newspapers in the United States

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related newspapers to :Category:LGBT-themed newspapers

:* Propose renaming :Category:LGBT-related record labels to :Category:LGBT-themed record labels

{{cob}}

:Nominator's rationale: rename for the sake of more clarity of the purpose of these categories and for a better definingness of the characteristics. "Related" or "associated" is too vague, per WP:OCASSOC.

: {{ping|AussieLegend|Pyxis Solitary|Escape_Orbit|Bearcat|Roscelese|David J Johnson|Laurel Lodged|GetSomeUtah}} pinging contributors to the last related CfD discussion that I am aware of. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:13, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

• Support all - "related" is pretty ambiguous. "Themed" is more defining. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:30, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
• Sure, why not? –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:43, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose on the basis that "-related" is a more encompassing term. Not all films with LGBT characters are LGBT-themed, and until there's suitable real-world categorization for the former, they should be able to be sorted together. And that it's progressive to have LGBT-related films that are not about LGBT themes, so it's nice to not exclude them. Kingsif (talk) 21:36, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
• Here's an example: Some Like It Hot is currently categorized under "American LGBT-related films". Whether it's actually an LGBT-themed film or not is somewhat debatable. GregorB (talk) 08:07, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
• Answered below about Some Like It Hot. Place Clichy (talk) 09:49, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
• Well that's one example. To add to the other explanations of how 'themed' doesn't include probably a good amount of LGBT-related media (there's a technical argument that anything LGBT-themed is 'queer' and anything otherwise LGBT-related is not), I add another example with La casa de las flores - its main cast counts two bisexual characters, a gay character and a transgender lesbian. One of its primary settings is a drag bar. It doesn't contain LGBT themes beyond calling out homophobia, though. So where would it go? :Category:Mexican television shows featuring LGBT characters and locations? Kingsif (talk) 03:07, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
• Not sure.
  Comment: I've witnessed food fights over adding Gay-related and Lesbian-related categories. Is it all or mostly Gay or Lesbian? Is there only some Gay or Lesbian? How important is that some? Yada yada yada, and the beat goes on. It's why I think that "Related" and "Themed" are both not the right term to use. "Related" means associated. The definition of "themed" is dealing with a topic or subject. If a program or film, for example, contains significant and/or predominant LGBT content, then "Themed" would be suitable. But what about programs and films where an LGBT character is a lead character and the sexual orientation frames the character, but the other characters in the program or film are not LGBT? Or the character's storyline is an important element, but so are those about the heterosexuals? Tagging such a program or film as "LGBT themed" would be incorrect -- just as much as tagging it as "LGBT related".
  It's a dilemma. Maybe "LGBT relevant" or "LGBT inclusive" is the more appropriate term. Pyxis Solitary yak 04:12, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

::IMO an article shouldn't be in more than one such category. DexDor ^(talk) 20:53, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

• Support. A theme is probably defining, merely being related is not. Zerach (talk) 08:44, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. "Themed" is certainly fine in some cases; films and television series and music and novels, for example, certainly have themes. However, magazines, newspapers, television and radio stations do not have "themes", and are more properly described as "LGBT-related" rather than "LGBT-themed", and parent categories like "LGBT-related media" and the unpluralized "LGBT-related film" cut across the distinction by parenting both the set of categories that could credibly be renamed "themed" and the ones that could not (as well as things that are neither "related" nor "themed", such as the film category directly parenting the categories for LGBT people involved in film (directors, actors, etc.) So I'm not opposed in principle to the idea that some of them could justifiably be renamed to "themed" instead of "related" — but they can't all be so renamed, and any nomination needs to be more careful about figuring out which category goes in which bucket. Bearcat (talk) 15:15, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

:* That is a fair point. I'll withdraw media, newspapers, radio and stations (still in process). Marcocapelle (talk) 06:40, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose all. A work should not have to have the/a "theme" of whatever if it still treats the whatever in large part, which is what these types of categories serve. Brideshead Revisited, for example, does not have a "theme" of homosexuality per se, but it certainly occupies much of the work. And we can't cherry-pick which of these numerous categories should stay and which should go; the same principle applies to all of them. Softlavender (talk) 08:24, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support if it is not defining enough to be classed as "themed" than it is not definingenough to categorize by.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:27, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support the renaming and the shrinking of scope. "LGBT-related" is so vague that, for instance, a movie would qualify if it had a secondary character in which some viewers would see signs of a LGBT orientation, which is hardly defining to the movie itself. However, media where the LGBT theme is central deserve being categorized as such. Some Like It Hot is a film where cross-dressing is central to the movie, and deserves being in :Category:Cross-dressing in American films, itself a subcat of :Category:American LGBT-related films, which would be renamed :Category:American LGBT-themed films under the proposed scheme. Place Clichy (talk) 09:49, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose - plenty of media is notable for its portrayal of LGBTQ, while not being strictly "LGBT-themed" as a whole. Being LGBT-related often does become a "defining trait" for a subject, based on how it is treated in RSs.--Alexandra IDV^talk 16:57, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

----

:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 10:52, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|WFAN (AM)}}

:Nominator's rationale: Per longstanding consensus against eponymous categories for individual radio stations. Of the 11 articles here, three are individual personalities who are or were employees of the station, clearly violating WP:PERFCAT, while another two are lists that are not station-specific but merely include this station among their entries -- so effectively half of the entries in this category do not belong in it. Which leaves just the eponym itself, a separate "history of WFAN" content fork of questionable necessity as much of it simply reduplicates the station's main article, and four programs -- which is not enough to justify a special exemption from the long-established consensus against individual-radio-station categories. Bearcat (talk) 01:30, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nom and precedent. – Liveste (talk • edits) 00:04, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

----

:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. MER-C 10:53, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Mario Kart games to :Category:Mario Kart

:Nominator's rationale: "Games" disambiguation is unnecessary. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 17:00, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

• Support. There is some inconsistency in how these types of categories are named, where there are multiple video games in a series but no other media. For example, subcats in {{cl|Mario video games}} that contain only games have the word "game" appended to it, whereas similar subcats in {{cl|Vehicular combat games}} don't have the word "game" added. For video game series that have branched out into other areas (e.g., {{cl|Donkey Kong}} has subcats on media, games and players), it's useful to have a category focused on games with a disambiguator in its title. But where a video game series contains only games (and where its title doesn't require a disambiguator to avoid confusion) then I don't see the point in having additional words in the category title, per WP:CONCISE. – Liveste (talk • edits) 00:36, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

----

:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 17:50, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Tomb Raider series to :Category:Tomb Raider

:Nominator's rationale: A game subcategory of a video game series is redundant. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 16:48, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

• Comment Potentially confusing title. Tomb raiding is another term for grave robbery, which has had a long real history of its own. Dimadick (talk) 10:51, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

• Support. Notwithstanding any potential confusion, the primary topic for "Tomb Raider" would be the video game series. The main article doesn't have a disambiguator, so I think it's fine (and more concise, if slightly) to omit one from the category title as well. – Liveste (talk • edits) 04:03, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

----

:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. MER-C 17:51, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Video games based on SpongeBob SquarePants to :Category:SpongeBob SquarePants video games

:Nominator's rationale: Per WP:CONSISTENCY and WP:CONCISE. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 16:10, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

• Support per WP:CONCISE, and in line with other subcats in {{cl|Nicktoons video games}}. – Liveste (talk • edits) 03:55, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

----

:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Withdrawn by nominator. (non-admin closure) Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 02:20, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:2019 Conservative Party (UK) leadership election to :Category:2019 Conservative Party leadership election

:Nominator's rationale: Match title format in category. Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 08:07, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

• Support. Opera hat (talk) 09:11, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose - the title should match parent categories which have the suffix "UK". It may be that the article needs renaming. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:07, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

• Support, per all the other CP leadership election categories.(per discussion below) Grutness...wha? 14:35, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

:* I suppose there is a misunderstanding here. There is only one other such category, namely the parent :Category:Conservative Party (UK) leadership elections which does contain the UK disambiguator. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:24, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

:**Whoops, you are right - I was going by the title names of all the articles within {{cl|Conservative Party (UK) leadership elections}}, none of which use the (UK) modifier. Perhaps they all need changing? Grutness...wha? 04:44, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose, WP:C2C per :Category:Conservative Party (UK) leadership elections. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:25, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. The issue here is that the UK is not the only country in the world with a Conservative Party, which is why the party's head article is at Conservative Party (UK) and why the overall parent category for all of its leadership elections is at {{cl|Conservative Party (UK) leadership elections}}. So if there's an article-to-category mismatch here, the correct solution is to rename the article rather than the category, because the article is the one that isn't complying with the overall naming convention that this party has to follow. Also, 2019 isn't over yet, and there are still several months during which any of the world's other Conservative parties could still also have their own leadership elections. Bearcat (talk) 15:22, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

----

:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.