Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 September 16

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 05:12, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Online trading to :Category:Electronic trading systems

:Nominator's rationale: Substantial overlap. Electronic trading systems makes the meaning a bit clearer. Online trading sounds a much wider concept. Rathfelder (talk) 21:37, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

• Just delete, none of the three articles are about systems. Two of them seem to belong in :Category:Algorithmic trading though. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:34, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
• Delete per Marcocapelle's reasoning. The subcat {{cat|Electronic trading platforms‎}} is already part of {{cat|Electronic trading systems}} as well. — JFG ^talk 04:14, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
• :Fine by me. Rathfelder (talk) 20:24, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete and merge as specified in the nomination (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 05:12, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Male politicians}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|American male politicians}}

:* Propose merging {{lc|American male politicians of Indian descent}} to {{cl|American politicians of Indian descent}}

:Nominator's rationale: Per longstanding consensus when similar categories have been tried in the past, there's no value in gender-categorizing male politicians. The vast majority of politicians throughout history have been male by default, and there's no need to categorize people for a characteristic shared by the vast majority of them -- the reason women are different when it comes to politics, and the reason why the category for women in politics does not need to be balanced against a similar category for men, is that women in politics only started to emerge in the 20th century (as opposed to men, who've always been in politics right from the very invention of politics). Women still represent barely 25 per cent of all politicians even with all the progress that has been made in the past 100 years, and even today, there are still political roles which have never been held by a woman at all -- and because women in politics are still both newer and rarer than men in politics, women in politics are the subject of special gender-based study in reliable sources: we still see real academic analysis of whether gender plays a role in how political candidates are perceived and whether it confers a disadvantage in winning election to certain offices; we still see real academic analysis of whether women do the job differently than men or not; we still see active programs designed to facilitate and increase women's participation in politics; and on and so forth. There isn't similar gender-based analysis of men in politics, however: men just get analyzed as politicians period, and only women get analyzed for the intersection of politics with gender. Female-X categories do not always have to be matched with a male-X equivalent; it depends on context, and politics is not a context where maleness is distinctive or defining. Bearcat (talk) 20:39, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

• Support. We've had these arguments before.Rathfelder (talk) 21:39, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:06, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nom and WP:OCEGRS. Place Clichy (talk) 11:29, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
• Delete "starting in the 20th-century" is both false and misleading. On one hand we have Martha Hughes Cannon elected a state senator in 1896. However the Utah Territorial Legislature's 1870s attempt to allow women to serve in elective office was blocked by the Federal government, and then the federal government rescinded women's right to vote in Utah. On the other hand well through the 20th-cnentury women in politics were extremely rare. during the time in the 1950s that Lyndon B. Johnson was the Democrat Majority Leader in the US census, his caucus had 0 females, and Margaret Chase Smith was the only female senator during that time. As recently as 1978 for part of the year the number of women in the US senate was 0. In 1991 the number of women serving as members of the US senate was 2. That is 2%. There have only been 56 women serve in the US senate, and this includes the first one who served a day as basically an honorific appointment. There are 18 states that have never elected a woman to the senate. There have been 1971 members of the United States senate to date, so 1915 have been men. No state has had more than 3 women senators, while no state has had less than 7 senators (Hawaii). New Jersey has had the most senators (66), and 0 of those have been women. Similar figures apply to the United States house of representatives, where 319 of 11,037 have been women. In both cases this adds up to just under 3% total. Pregnancy of such women though rare plays a role, and for example Mia Love was chastised by some for being a mother of minor children seeking political office in a way fathers of minor children never are.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:43, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge (the other category already exists, with the same scope). (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 05:11, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Falcon (rocket family) to :Category:SpaceX launch vehicles

:Nominator's rationale: Per recent consensus at Talk:SpaceX launch vehicles#Requested move 9 September 2019, similar reason may apply for its category, but a discussion might be needed before renaming this category. (note the mainpage was moved from Falcon (rocket family) to SpaceX launch vehicles) Thanks! OkayKenji ^{(talk page)} 20:16, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

• Pinging {{u|PhilipTerryGraham}} nominator of move discussion over at SpaceX launch vehicles. Should we ping the other editors who participated in discussion at Talk:SpaceX launch vehicles#Requested move 9 September 2019? OkayKenji ^{(talk page)} 20:31, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
• Comment normally the category just follows the main article but the latter has now been boldly moved again after the RM move. If needed please re-discuss the article title. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:46, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support per usual practice. Note for {{u|Marcocapelle}}: I have restored the "SpaceX launch vehicles" agreed at RM, undoing the out-of-process change to "Launch vehicles of SpaceX". — JFG ^talk 04:09, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Ok then support this proposal assuming the article title remains at its current name. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:42, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 05:11, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Lists of mayors of cities in Canada}}

:Nominator's rationale: Category which effectively just duplicates {{cl|Lists of mayors of places in Canada}} for no compelling reason. While it is technically true that towns and villages also have mayors, we actually have very few lists of mayors of places that aren't cities -- between the fact that smalltown mayors are not automatically presumed notable under WP:NPOL and the fact that small towns much more frequently lack any easily consulted reliable sources to support a list with, very few places smaller than the midsized city level have lists of their mayors on Wikipedia at all. So if this were fully populated with all of the lists of mayors of Canadian cities that we have (which it is not, as it's still missing more of them than it includes), it would simply offer redundant categorization of nearly all of the lists that are already in the parent tree anyway. We don't actually need to categorize "cities" separately from "places" in this context, if very few places that aren't cities have lists at all -- and for the exact same reasons, no other country on earth has a dedicated subcategory to segregate the cities from other kinds of places either. Upmerging not needed, as every list here is already in the appropriate provincial subcategory of the parent. Bearcat (talk) 15:28, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:10, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
• Delete an unneccessary category as well explained by Bearcat.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:02, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 05:10, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Pre-Confederation mayors of Ottawa to :Category:Mayors of Ottawa

:Nominator's rationale: Category which uses an arbitrary date to separate some mayors of a city from other mayors of the same city. Ottawa is far from the only Canadian city that existed before Canadian Confederation in 1867 -- Toronto had 16 mayors before Confederation happened, Montreal had 31, Quebec City had 13, Halifax had 19, Kingston had 23, and on and so forth — but it is the only city that's using Canada's transition from British colony to independent country in 1867 as a categorical point of separation between some mayors and others. This isn't really necessary or helpful — Confederation didn't really change the status or context of mayors at all, so there's no need for the category system to segregate the pre-1867 mayors and the post-1867 mayors as two separate classes of topic. And no, the fact that Ottawa happens to be the capital of Canada still doesn't define the pre-1867 mayors differently than it does the post-1867 mayors — even pre-Confederation, Ottawa was already the capital, so Confederation still didn't have any meaningfully unique effect on the status of Ottawa's mayoralty. Bearcat (talk) 15:13, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:11, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
• Merge we try and avoid supdiving office categories needlessly.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:03, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: speedily renamed. – Fayenatic London 21:20, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:EDI to :Category:Electronic Data Interchange :Category:Electronic data interchange

:Nominator's rationale: That is the name of the article. EDI doesnt mean much to those outside the e-commerce field. Rathfelder (talk) 12:28, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

• Rename per nominator....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:55, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nom and an obvious case of WP:C2D. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:12, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
• Sorry. I completely forgot about that option. I withdraw this in favour of the speedy procedure.Rathfelder (talk) 09:12, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
• {{ping|Rathfelder}} For future reference, there was no need to withdraw and re-nominate on the speedy page. Full CFD nominations can be speedily closed too. – Fayenatic London 18:09, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. MER-C 10:27, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

There's already been a consensus developed at Talk:List of current United States senators#Requested move 11 August 2019 that "Senator" should be lower-case in most instances. —GoldRingChip 17:25, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

• {{ping|GoldRingChip}} support but all categories have to be listed here (see other nominations) and tagged, otherwise administrators will not be able to process them. :Marcocapelle (talk) 19:35, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
• OK… I'll get on it… —GoldRingChip 23:00, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
• I've added all I could find. Please add more if you find them, I can't do that all again. —GoldRingChip 23:39, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:African-American United States Senators to :Category:African-American United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Anti-Monopoly Party United States Senators to :Category:Anti-Monopoly Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Appointed United States Senators to :Category:Appointed United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Censured or reprimanded United States Senators to :Category:Censured or reprimanded United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Democratic Party United States Senators to :Category:Democratic Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Democratic-Republican Party United States Senators to :Category:Democratic-Republican Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Expelled United States Senators to :Category:Expelled United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Farmer–Labor Party United States Senators to :Category:Farmer–Labor Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Federalist Party United States Senators to :Category:Federalist Party United States senators. Peterkingiron (talk) 11:24, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Female United States Senators to :Category:Female United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Fictional United States Senators to :Category:Fictional United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Free Soil Party United States Senators to :Category:Free Soil Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Independent United States Senators to :Category:Independent United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Jewish United States Senators to :Category:Jewish United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Know-Nothing United States Senators to :Category:Know-Nothing United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Liberal Republican Party United States Senators to :Category:Liberal Republican Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Liberty Party (1840) United States Senators to :Category:Liberty Party (1840) United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Lists of United States Senators to :Category:Lists of United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Lists of United States Senators by state to :Category:Lists of United States senators by state

:* Propose renaming :Category:National Republican Party United States Senators to :Category:National Republican Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Nonpartisan League United States Senators to :Category:Nonpartisan League United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Nullifier Party United States Senators to :Category:Nullifier Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Opposition Party United States Senators to :Category:Opposition Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:People's Party United States Senators to :Category:People's Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Political positions of United States Senators to :Category:Political positions of United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Readjuster Party United States Senators to :Category:Readjuster Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Republican Party United States Senators to :Category:Republican Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Silver Party United States Senators to :Category:Silver Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Silver Republican Party United States Senators to :Category:Silver Republican Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Spouses of United States Senators to :Category:Spouses of United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Unconditional Union Party United States Senators to :Category:Unconditional Union Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:Unionist Party United States Senators to :Category:Unionist Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senator navigational boxes to :Category:United States senator navigational boxes

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators by party to :Category:United States senators by party

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators by state navigational boxes to :Category:United States senators by state navigational boxes

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Alabama to :Category:United States senators from Alabama

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Alaska to :Category:United States senators from Alaska

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Arizona to :Category:United States senators from Arizona

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from California to :Category:United States senators from California

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Colorado to :Category:United States senators from Colorado

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Connecticut to :Category:United States senators from Connecticut

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Delaware to :Category:United States senators from Delaware

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Florida to :Category:United States senators from Florida

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Georgia (U.S. state) to :Category:United States senators from Georgia (U.S. state)

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Hawaii to :Category:United States senators from Hawaii

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Idaho to :Category:United States senators from Idaho

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Illinois to :Category:United States senators from Illinois

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Indiana to :Category:United States senators from Indiana

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Iowa to :Category:United States senators from Iowa

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Kansas to :Category:United States senators from Kansas

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Kentucky to :Category:United States senators from Kentucky

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Maine to :Category:United States senators from Maine

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Maryland to :Category:United States senators from Maryland

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Massachusetts to :Category:United States senators from Massachusetts

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Michigan to :Category:United States senators from Michigan

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Minnesota to :Category:United States senators from Minnesota

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Mississippi to :Category:United States senators from Mississippi

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Missouri to :Category:United States senators from Missouri

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Montana to :Category:United States senators from Montana

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Nebraska to :Category:United States senators from Nebraska

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Nevada to :Category:United States senators from Nevada

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from New Hampshire to :Category:United States senators from New Hampshire

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from New Jersey to :Category:United States senators from New Jersey

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from New Mexico to :Category:United States senators from New Mexico

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from New York (state) to :Category:United States senators from New York (state)

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from North Carolina to :Category:United States senators from North Carolina

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from North Dakota to :Category:United States senators from North Dakota

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Ohio to :Category:United States senators from Ohio

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Oklahoma to :Category:United States senators from Oklahoma

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Oregon to :Category:United States senators from Oregon

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Pennsylvania to :Category:United States senators from Pennsylvania

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Rhode Island to :Category:United States senators from Rhode Island

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from South Carolina to :Category:United States senators from South Carolina

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from South Dakota to :Category:United States senators from South Dakota

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Tennessee to :Category:United States senators from Tennessee

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Texas to :Category:United States senators from Texas

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Utah to :Category:United States senators from Utah

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Vermont to :Category:United States senators from Vermont

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Virginia to :Category:United States senators from Virginia

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Washington (state) to :Category:United States senators from Washington (state)

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from West Virginia to :Category:United States senators from West Virginia

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Wisconsin to :Category:United States senators from Wisconsin

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators from Wyoming to :Category:United States senators from Wyoming

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Shadow Senators from District of Columbia to :Category:United States Shadow senators from District of Columbia

:* Propose renaming :Category:Whig Party United States Senators to :Category:Whig Party United States senators

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators by state to :Category:United States senators by state

• Comment Please can the nominator list the categories in the standard FROM/TO format. This is a long list and it will be a pain to process without the destinations. Timrollpickering (Talk) 14:43, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
• Yes, indeed! Done, see above. —GoldRingChip 14:54, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support the argument of the nominator. Adding capital letters indiscriminately and invading foreign countries are just two of the more obvious problems of America. Debresser (talk) 22:34, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
• Ouch. —GoldRingChip 11:44, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support -- However, I would have thought that the categories for be about senators "for" a state, rather than by origin, which may be quite different
• That's a fine point, actually. Let's address it at some other discussion. —GoldRingChip 12:48, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:United States Senators to :Category:United States senators

• This category wasn't tagged or listed above. Please don't close for a week. MER-C 09:40, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support all above. (:Category:United States Senators is listed above, in the header.) Oculi (talk) 10:28, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

:* These could all be speedied per WP:C2A (capitalization) as 2 days have passed and there is no opposition. Oculi (talk) 12:33, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

• {{ping|MER-C}} Why was this resisted? It's not controversial; there's already been a consensus elsewhere; this could've been done speedy; and it just takes bots to make it happen? —GoldRingChip 16:35, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
• :Category:United States Senators wasn't tagged for renaming. Even if speedy renaming applies, it requires the category to be tagged for two days. MER-C 17:27, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

::*You could have processed the ones tagged and listed. Stragglers can be speedied. Oculi (talk) 09:08, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

• Support - this is uncontroversial maintenance per WP:C2A. Place Clichy (talk) 17:25, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support I am still trying to figure why such a straighforward change has been subjected to so long a debate.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:04, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 05:10, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Films scored by Deva (music director) to :Category:Films scored by Deva (composer)

:Nominator's rationale: Match the parent article Deva (composer). Kailash29792 (talk) 03:50, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nominator....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:19, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: upmerge. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 05:10, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose (up)merging :Category:Schools in Sikar Rajasthan to :Category:Buildings and structures in Sikar district and :Category:Education in Sikar

:Nominator's rationale: With just 2 articles in this category and 2-3 pages in each parent, there is not enough content at this time to warrant a set category for schools in this city. There is no need to upmerge to :Category:Schools in Rajasthan as both articles are already in another subcategory of that parent. If the category is kept, then rename to :Category:Schools in Sikar per the city article. (Pinging the category's creator, User:ComputerVisionGuy) -- Black Falcon ^(talk) 02:38, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:14, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 05:10, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Villages in Gharsana tehsil to :Category:Villages in Sri Ganganagar district

:Nominator's rationale: There is not enough content in :Category:Villages in Sri Ganganagar district (~15 articles) to warrant splitting the category by tehsil. There is no :Category:Gharsana tehsil to which to upmerge, and at this time there does not appear to be enough content related to Gharsana tehsil to warrant an eponymous category. (Pining the category's creator, User:Shemaroo) -- Black Falcon ^(talk) 02:11, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:17, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 05:10, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Girwa tehsil}}

:Nominator's rationale: While this is not a case of WP:SMALLCAT (as the category could be expanded), it is not useful at this time to begin subdividing :Category:Udaipur district by tehsil, given we have only about ~50 articles about settlements in the district split between :Category:Cities and towns in Udaipur district and :Category:Villages in Udaipur district. All articles are already otherwise categorized, so upmerging is not required. (Category creator not notified: indefinitely blocked) -- Black Falcon ^(talk) 02:06, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nom and just generally this is very narrow categorization, preferably only to be pursued if India as a whole can be meaningfully subdivided like this. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:22, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

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