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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 12#Suicides by occupation

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= December 12 =

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== Category:Bad literature ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:15, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Bad literature}}

:Nominator's rationale: Per precedent at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_July_16#Category:Bad_music and Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_July_29#Category:Bad_television –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 16:42, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

  • Delete In fact I'd say this probably falls under WP:G10 due to being an "attack page" solely intended to disparage books.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 10:09, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • :"being an "attack page" " No. Apokrif (talk) 22:32, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

::: That clearly was not your intent when you put the award redirect in the category. What type of articles were you hoping for in this category? -RevelationDirect (talk) 10:59, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

  • Delete per WP:SMALLCAT for now, since there is only 1 redirect (Bad Sex in Fiction Award) and no articles. Any attempt to populate it would run afoul of WP:G10, as Zxcvbnm points out, so I'm open to speedy. - RevelationDirect (talk) 10:46, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Delete I think this at best has problems with failing being objective and easy to say yes or no. There is no universally agreed on definition of what "bad literature" is.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:14, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom and precedent. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 21:50, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom and precedent. --Just N. (talk) 21:03, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Keep, expand, and possibly rename. This is obviously not an attack page (or category), as anyone could tell by reading it. The Bad Sex in Fiction Award is given to books deemed to have bad descriptions of sex. The Wikipedia article (or section within the article) contains no attacks. This should be expanded with the Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest and the Lyttle Lytton Contest (a section of the Adam Cadre article), in which people intentionally write bad literature, hoping to be recognized as the worst. That's hardly an attack. It would obviously be inappropriate to have a category in which Wikipedia deems books to be bad, but that's not what this is about. None of the above votes are based on an actual understanding of the category or the articles that would be included. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:13, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Delete per WP:SMALLCAT, potentially one article and two redirects is too little. Links are already in the "see also" section in Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:23, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Members of the Provincial-Council of the Netherlands by province ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:19, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Members of the Provincial-Council of the Netherlands by province to :Category:Provincial council members of Dutch provinces

:Nominator's rationale: the current title is certainly incorrect, as it suggests there is one "Provincial-Council of the Netherlands". Also, in plural, provincial councils is no longer a proper name and so there is no longer a need for capitalization. Several better alternatives are possible, such as the one nominated, or :Category:Members of provincial councils in the Netherlands by province which is closer to the current title, but mind the word "in". Again another rename to :Category:Provincial councillors of the Netherlands was opposed for speedy renaming because the term "councillors" is not used in the articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:17, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

{{cot|copy of speedy discussion}}

:* Oppose, not a case of WP:C2D and most articles in the category use "member of". Marcocapelle (talk) 16:43, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

{{cob}}

: {{ping|Ætoms}} pinging the other contributor in the speedy discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:20, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

: See also this related discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:03, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

  • support per nom. --Just N. (talk) 21:04, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Suicides by occupation ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:17, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting :Category:Architects who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Businesspeople who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Computer programmers who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Dentists who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Designers who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Diplomats who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Engineers who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Explorers who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Farmers who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Inventors who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Law enforcers who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Librarians who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Literary critics who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Nobility who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Photographers who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Political writers who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Revolutionaries who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Sailors who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Socialites who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Video game designers who committed suicide

:* Propose deleting :Category:Professional wrestlers who committed suicide

:Nominator's rationale: delete as a trivial intersection. This is follow-up on this earlier discussion. Note there are many more occupations in this tree than nominated, moreover trivial intersections of occupation with other causes of death, but I am starting now with (presumably) the most obvious trivial intersections, in order to avoid the nomination becomes a trainwreck. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:31, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

  • Delete Per WP:NONDEF. Occupation of a person is largely unrelated to the fact that they committed suicide, except perhaps in isolated cases.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 14:55, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Delete There are a few occupations where suicide seems common - doctors and musicians spring to mind, but generally not defining. I would argue very few biographies should be categorised by cause of death. Rathfelder (talk) 16:38, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Keep and rename Category:Professional wrestlers who committed suicide -> Category:Professional wrestlers who died by suicide. This has been covered widely as part of the discussion about premature wrestling deaths. It seems like it could be a valuable category, as sources discuss how the lifestyle associated with professional wrestling--including travel schedule, high pressure to perform, etc.--have led to notable suicides. No opinion on the others. GaryColemanFan (talk) 14:43, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Delete People can have more than one career, and I see no evidence that they are not getting categorized by every intersection. If we could limit these to people actively involved in that field when they committed suicide it might work, but we won't be able to, so we should just scrap this.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:30, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Delete no objective connection between these professions (is socialite a profession? if so, where do I apply) and suicide. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 21:51, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Delete — admittedly, some of these were famous suicides, but Alan Turing's suicide wasn't linked to his profession: :Category:Inventors who committed suicide and :Category:Computer programmers who committed suicide.
  • #But you missed :Category:Mathematicians who committed suicide, because it is under :Category:Scientists who committed suicide, that in turn is under :Category:Academics who committed suicide. Presumably we'll tackle them later?
  • #Do we really want to categorize the reason for suicide? After all, a few categories like :Category:LGBT-related suicides will likely be fairly prevalent, but depression-related is inexplicably missing?
  • #Moreover, why do we categorize suicides by Continent, and Country, and City?

:William Allen Simpson (talk) 16:27, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Mayors of places in Israel ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:21, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

: Propose merging:

:* :Category:Mayors of Ashdod‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Ashdod

:* :Category:Mayors of Ashkelon‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Ashkelon

:* :Category:Mayors of Bat Yam‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Bat Yam

:* :Category:Mayors of Bnei Brak‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Bnei Brak

:* :Category:Mayors of Dimona‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Dimona

:* :Category:Mayors of Hadera‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Hadera

:* :Category:Mayors of Kfar Saba‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Kfar Saba

:* :Category:Mayors of Kiryat Ata‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Kiryat Ata

:* :Category:Mayors of Kiryat Gat‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Kiryat Gat

:* :Category:Mayors of Kiryat Malakhi‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Kiryat Malakhi

:* :Category:Mayors of Lod‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Lod

:* :Category:Mayors of Modi'in-Maccabim-Re'ut‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Modi'in-Maccabim-Re'ut

:* :Category:Mayors of Netanya‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Netanya

:* :Category:Mayors of Petah Tikva‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Petah Tikva

:* :Category:Mayors of Ramla‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Ramla

:* :Category:Mayors of Rehovot‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Rehovot

:* :Category:Mayors of Safed‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Safed

:* :Category:Mayors of Tayibe‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Tayibe

:* :Category:Mayors of Tiberias‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Tiberias

:* :Category:Mayors of Umm al-Fahm‎ to :Category:Mayors of places in Israel and :Category:People from Umm al-Fahm

:Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, just one, two or three articles in each of these categories and they are not part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:25, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

  • Merge for Now These places certainly have had more than five mayors but most would be non-notable so growth potential is limited. If any exceed expectations and actually get up to 5+ articles, by all means recreate. - RevelationDirect (talk) 23:06, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Merge for Now. --Just N. (talk) 21:08, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:COSCO ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:44, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:COSCO to :Category:COSCO Shipping

:Nominator's rationale: rename per main article COSCO Shipping. This nomination was opposed for speedy renaming. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:18, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

{{cot|copy of speedy discussion}}

::* {{ping|Armbrust}} The merge discussion for the old main article is located here: Talk:COSCO#Proposed Redirect to China COSCO Shipping. The old main article is now a redirect. Do you still oppose? - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:50, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

{{cob}}

: {{ping|RevelationDirect|Armbrust}} pinging contributors to speedy discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:20, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

:COSCO and [China] COSCO Shipping are two different entities. The latter is former by a merger, i.e. successor. The bold merge of article reverted. Matthew hk (talk) 12:07, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

:The discussion of this category should rather focus on should we need COSCO and another category for [China] COSCO Shipping, or just one umbrella cat. Matthew hk (talk) 12:13, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

:* If a sufficient number of articles refer to the pre-2016 period only, we can recreate :Category:COSCO as a subcategory under :Category:COSCO Shipping. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:40, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

  • Defer to RM/Premature in this Venue When I speedy nominated the category for a rename, the main article COSCO had been converted to a redirect to COSCO Shipping after an informal discussion. That has since been boldy reversed. Additionally, a formal WP:RM has been started for COSCO. I don't think we can sort out the corresponding categories until we get some stability in the article space and know how many main articles we have and what they're called. - RevelationDirect (talk) 13:33, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Related Nominations

:The following related nominations are now under discussion:

:1. Requested Move of COSCO under discussion right here.

:2. Requested Merger of COSCO Shipping Holdings under discussion right here.

:3. Requested Merger of COSCO (Hong Kong) Group under discussion right here.

:4. Deletion Review of :Category:China Shipping Group under discussion right here.

:I'm neutral on all of them but encourage editors to weigh in whether pro, con or other to help bring consensus. - RevelationDirect (talk) 18:47, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Prominent members of the Oxford University L'Chaim Society ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 10:51, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Prominent members of the Oxford University L'Chaim Society}}

:Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. What is the criterion for determining who is "prominent" enough a member of Oxford University L'Chaim Society for inclusion? AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 05:31, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

  • Delete, also per WP:NONDEF, the people in this category have meanwhile done much more important things in their lives, their student activities become a bit trivial. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:49, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Delete The word "prominent" in the category title seems to be an effort go get around WP:OCASSOC. Fair enough, but that leaves us with WP:SUBJECTIVECAT for who qualifies as prominent. - RevelationDirect (talk) 13:35, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Delete This is extremely subjective. Either we categorize all members or none, not just "prominent" ones.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:33, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Delete even removing the "prominent" qualifier, membership in this is not defining. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 21:52, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. --Just N. (talk) 21:09, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Recipients of the Order of the Queen of Sheba ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 10:50, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose Deleting/Listifying :Category:Recipients of the Order of the Queen of Sheba

::* Propose Deleting/Listifying :Category:Grand Cordons of the Order of the Queen of Sheba‎

::* Propose Deleting/Listifying :Category:Grand Crosses of the Order of the Queen of Sheba‎

::* Propose Deleting/Listifying :Category:Knights of the Order of the Queen of Sheba‎

:Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:PERFCAT, WP:OVERLAPCAT and WP:OCAWARD)

:When prominent leaders visited imperial Ethiopia, or vice versa, the Order of the Queen of Sheba was given out as souvenir to commemorate the visit. Dwight D. Eisenhower, Ingrid of Sweden and Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna of Russia are not remotely defined by this award. (The only Ethiopians in this category are members of the royal family who are already well categorized under :Category:Ethiopian Royal Family.) There wasn't already a list so I created one right here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:16, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Animals in War & Peace Medal of Bravery ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 10:50, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose Deleting/Listifying :Category:Animals in War & Peace Medal of Bravery

:Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)

:The Animals in War & Peace Medal of Bravery is an award for American military animals that was created last year (2019) and retroactively inducted mostly historical figures like Cher Ami (WWI), G.I. Joe (pigeon) (WWII), and Sergeant Reckless (Korean War). They have a few weeks left but, so far, none have been issued for 2020. The award doesn't seem defining and the contents are already listified right here for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:16, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

  • Delete, another obvious case of WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:52, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Delete the fact that is is essentially a posthoumous award means its delivery is not relevant at all to the recipients.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:35, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. --Just N. (talk) 21:12, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.