Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 June 12#Category:M-Base trumpeters

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete, merging contents to :Category:Latin-script letters. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:18, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Uncommon Latin letters}}

:Nominator's rationale: WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 20:52, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Support in principle, but some articles such as N with long right leg need to moved manually to :Category:Latin-script letters or one of its subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:35, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: manual disperse. bibliomaniac15 02:40, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Support ships to :Category:Auxiliary ships

:Nominator's rationale: AFAIK, they're one and the same. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:18, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Disperse manually since the content needs probably to be moved to subcategories of :Category:Auxiliary ships. I also think support ships and auxiliary ships are the same, though I wonder why the Sea Launch Commander is in here. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:49, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
• Merge/Disperse They are the same and Auxiliary ship is the main article. Willing to help to manually disperse. RevelationDirect (talk) 21:23, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:20, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:South American tinamous to :Category:Tinamous of South America

:Nominator's rationale: Consistency of name. DexDor ^(talk) 18:53, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Speedy per WP:C2C. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:51, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
• Support per nom. --Lenticel ^(talk) 05:00, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:21, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Nizams Dominion to :Category:UNKNOWN

:Nominator's rationale: Another subcat of :Category:Nizams of Hyderabad by the same (blocked) editor as the two below, this one contains a city, two regions, and four former regions. Presumably these correspond to the territory formerly ruled by the Nizam of Hyderabad. I'm not sure what should be done with the category; open to the option of deletion. – Fayenatic London 20:27, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

• Delete, Medak Gulshanabad Division is already in :Category:Hyderabad State and the rest just does not belong in that hierarchy. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:11, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
• Suggest :Category:Lands ruled by Nizams of Hyderabad. These were more extensive than the state of Hyderahad as it existed when it merged with India in 1948. Peterkingiron (talk) 19:13, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

:* (reaction on suggestion) We do not categorize current places or current areas by former borders. That is hardly ever defining. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:38, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Delete. Unsurprisingly, borders of the Hyderabad princely state varied greatly during the centuries of its existence. An article about this territorial evolution would be more useful than a category. Place Clichy (talk) 08:17, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete; could be re-created if someone cares to create Template:R from nickname. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 07:53, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Redirects from nicknames to :Category:Redirects from colloquial names

:Nominator's rationale: This empty category is covering the same topic as the non-empty newly created one. {{-r|Template:R from nickname}} should also be retargeted to Template:R from colloquial name. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 20:16, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose The article is Nickname, Colloquial name is a redirect to Colloquialism. I realize that the main article doesn't serve the same function in a redirect category but I don't favor deviating without a clear benefit. RevelationDirect (talk) 22:20, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
• {{ping|RevelationDirect}} Delete then, as Template:R from nickname is a redirect? (Unless someone is interested in creating it) 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 14:13, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge :Category:Anti-Hinduism to :Category:Anti-Hindu sentiment. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:22, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Anti-Hindu sentiment}}

:Nominator's rationale: Redundant, because we already have two other categories for the same phenomenon. Elizium23 (talk) 17:06, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Reverse merge from :Category:Anti-Hinduism to this category, per article title Anti-Hindu sentiment. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:47, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
• Reverse merge per above. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:25, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
• Reverse Merge Per the main article. RevelationDirect (talk) 21:29, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Prejudice against LGBT people. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 07:35, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Anti-LGBT sentiment}}

:Nominator's rationale: Redundant, because we already have 3 categories for the same phenomenon. Elizium23 (talk) 17:05, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Comment, this would be a more appropriate name of :Category:Prejudice against LGBT people. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:55, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
• Agree with above comment. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:25, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
• Delete. As Marcocapelle points out, we already have this category, which serves as a supercategory for Homophobia and Transphobia (as well as for subcats of prejudice, such as slurs or discrimination). –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 03:00, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
• Merge :Category:Prejudice against LGBT people to this category, per Marcocapelle. buidhe 08:25, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
• {{ping|Elizium23|Laurel Lodged|Roscelese|Buidhe|Hmains}} meanwhile some content has been added to this formerly empty category which is well-meant but somewhat problematic. For example Nazism is not entirely about Anti-LGBT sentiment, so I do not think that it is appropriate to add the entire Nazism category here as a subcategory. At best the article the article Nazism should be added to the category. Please share your thoughts about this. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:35, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge/delete as nominated. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 07:50, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:M-Base trumpeters to :Category:Jazz trumpeters

:Nominator's rationale: Only 4 Rathfelder (talk) 15:34, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:M-Base saxophonists to :Category:Jazz saxophonists

:Nominator's rationale: Only 3 Rathfelder (talk) 15:33, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:M-Base clarinetists to :Category:Jazz clarinetists

:Nominator's rationale: Only 1 Rathfelder (talk) 15:32, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|M-Base musicians by instrument}}

:* Propose merging :Category:M-Base musicians to :Category:Jazz musicians

:Nominator's rationale: Not significant enough for categorisation. Doesnt merit a category in :Category:Jazz genres Rathfelder (talk) 15:31, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 07:49, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Quality and continuous improvement organizations to :Category:Quality assurance organizations

:Nominator's rationale: merge, the scope of the two categories overlaps. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:51, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Merge I thought there might be a main article with some distinction but, no, the scope is the same. RevelationDirect (talk) 21:25, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 07:46, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Flora of dependencies of Guadeloupe to :Category:Flora of Guadeloupe

:* Propose merging :Category:Fauna of dependencies of Guadeloupe to :Category:Fauna of Guadeloupe

:* Propose merging :Category:Biota of the dependencies of Guadeloupe to :Category:Biota of Guadeloupe

:Nominator's rationale: This is a totally unnecessary complication to the category structure. DexDor ^(talk) 13:03, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Merge This is an extra layer to get to :Category:Biota of Îles des Saintes which all that is hiding underneath these categories. RevelationDirect (talk) 21:27, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 13:56, 20 June 2020 (UTC)q

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Fictional elderly characters}}

:Nominator's rationale: Poorly defined category of characteristic that is often not defining, and very unlikely to be anywhere near complete. Who is "elderly"? Is there an age range? How many thousands of fictional people qualify? Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 12:31, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Delete Vague criterion. At what age are you considered an elder? Dimadick (talk) 19:55, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
• Delete as subjective. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:54, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
• Delete as subjective. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:51, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Keep Timrollpickering (talk) 13:50, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose manually merging :Category:Non-profit organizations, moving only the articles but not the subcategories to :Category: Organizations

:* Propose merging :Category:Non-profit organizations by type to :Category:Organizations by type

:* Propose merging :Category:Non-profit organizations by subject to :Category:Organizations by subject

:* Propose merging :Category:History of nonprofit organizations to :Category:History of organizations

:* Propose merging :Category:International non-profit organizations to :Category:International organizations (move some manually to the subcategory :Category:International organizations by type of organization)

:* Propose merging :Category:Non-profit organizations by continent to :Category: Organizations by continent

:* Propose merging :Category:Non-profit organizations based in Africa to :Category: Organizations based in Africa

:* Propose merging :Category:Non-profit organizations based in Asia to :Category: Organizations based in Asia

: Complete list is on the talk page

: Top of the US city list:

:* Propose merging :Category:Non-profit organizations based in Alexandria, Virginia to :Category:Organizations based in Alexandria, Virginia

:* Propose merging :Category:Non-profit organizations based in Anchorage, Alaska to :Category:Organizations based in Anchorage, Alaska

:* Propose merging :Category:Non-profit organizations based in Annandale, Virginia to :Category:Organizations based in Virginia and :Category:Annandale, Virginia

:* Propose merging :Category:Non-profit organizations based in Arlington, Virginia to :Category:Organizations based in Arlington County, Virginia

:* Propose merging :Category:Non-profit organizations based in Bedford, Texas to :Category:Organizations based in Texas and :Category:Tarrant County, Texas

:* Propose merging :Category:Non-profit organizations based in Bellingham, Washington to :Category:Organizations based in Washington (state) and :Category:Bellingham, Washington

:* Propose merging :Category:Non-profit organizations based in Boston to :Category:Organizations based in Boston

:* Propose merging :Category:Non-profit organizations based in Chantilly, Virginia to :Category:Organizations based in Virginia and :Category:Fairfax County, Virginia

: Complete list is on the talk page

:Nominator's rationale: merge. This is follow-up on this earlier discussion in which other editors than me suggested the above merge. Initially I was a bit skeptical about it, until I realized that nonprofit organizations contains nearly all types of organizations except companies and maybe just a few other types. So non-profit organizations is essentially a kind of WP:OCMISC - "all other organizations".

: Something specific needs to be said about the U.S. city subcats. There is quite a substantial number of city subcats in Virginia and Washington (state) where there is no Organizations parent category to merge to for that city. In that case I propose a dual merge to the Organizations category of the state and to the broad city category (or if that does not even exist, to the county). For that purpose I've also listed the top of the U.S. city categories up here as an example. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:18, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

: {{ping|Jfhutson|RevelationDirect|Rathfelder|Bibliomaniac15|Oculi|Peterkingiron}} pinging contributors to the previous two discussions. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:31, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• I think this is sensible. In USA, as I understand it, there is a legal definition of non-profit, and the term is generally used where in UK we would use the term charity. Rathfelder (talk) 09:38, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
• Comment In the US, "companies" can also mean a lot of legal structures (sole proprietorship, LLCs, public, private held, etc.) and we don't think of those as WP:OCMISC. Non-profit can contain religious, charity, fraternal, medical, cemetery and those often line up to legal statuses as well. Not sure if the for profit/non-profit divide is defining though nor am I sure how this looks from a non-US perspective. RevelationDirect (talk) 10:54, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose I don't know that much about US categorisations but this sweeping proposal makes no sense to me. :Category:Organisations based in Scotland has 47 sub-cats of which non-profits are but one. The latter has 3 sub-cats of its own and arguably could have more. "Nonprofit organizations contains nearly all types of organizations except companies". Really - how about: Public sector organisations; political parties; unincorporated associations, clubs and societies; criminal organisations; charities; trade unions? Ben MacDui 08:57, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Most of these are actually included in non-profit organizations, see :Category:Non-profit organizations by type and if they aren't yet included they could be added. This is exactly what makes the designation "non-profit organization" so broad. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:39, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

::*Right. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:09, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

• As with any negative definition, the problem is what doesnt go here?Rathfelder (talk) 14:58, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
• Weak oppose. As a sociologist, I actually teach about that stuff, though my field is new media (ping User:Pundit, isn't your specialty closer to this?). Anyway, one of the simple divisions of organizations is indeed into non-profit and profit. The logic is imperfect, however, as for example most governmental agencies are technically non-profit but are not called that. Or companies - they technically are :Category:Non-governmental organizations but again when we think NGO we don't think Coca-Cola or Samsung are NGOs, we explicitly assume they are non-profit. But non-profit is not the same as non-commercial. This is a complex issue with blurry boundaries, and in the end, since we have an article for Nonprofit organization I think it deserves its own category tree. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:09, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

• Simply deleting the categories may not solve the problem. We abolished all the country subdivisions of :Category:Non-governmental organizations and now the main category has filled up with individual organizations. Rathfelder (talk) 20:38, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
• Why on Earth would "we" make such a stupid decision? Country subdivisions are useful and NGOs are a major grouping of organizations. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:53, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
• For the same reason that these should go. Negatively defined categories get filled up with all sorts of things that dont belong there. Just go and have a look before i empty it again. Rathfelder (talk) 09:57, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose, because I think the current problem is that some of the contents of the "Non-profit organizations" e.g. colleges, universities, art galleries are profit making so are mis-categorized. There are clearly organizatoions that are profit making that aren't companies. Sionk (talk) 10:59, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
• Colleges, universities and art galleries (and many similar sorts of organization) have their own categories and are not affected by this nomination. Rathfelder (talk) 15:37, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

::THey're currently categorized as "Non-profit organizations", so I beg to differ. Sionk (talk) 23:25, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose non-profits are a valid subcat.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:04, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose non-profits are a large and distinct subset of organizations. --evrik ^(talk) 21:34, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
• Would you like to suggest a definition? Rathfelder (talk) 10:58, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose – Being a nonprofit organization is a defining, distinct characteristic. The proposed merge would create categories of dissimilar entities. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:40, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
• Nobody has offered a definition. Rathfelder (talk) 17:19, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
• You mean like Nonprofit organization?? Sionk (talk) 21:10, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: speedy procedural close. accidental malformed, duplicate nom (non-admin closure) Hog Farm (talk) 03:39, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Missouri Confederate Civil War regiments to :Category:Missouri Confederate Civil War regiments

:Nominator's rationale: Not all of the articles in the category are about regiments, there are artillery batteries and a company in there too, which are not regiments. Hog Farm (talk) 03:39, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) buidhe 08:22, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Missouri Confederate Civil War regiments to :Category:Missouri Confederate Civil War units

:Nominator's rationale: Not all of the articles in the category are technically regiments, some are artillery batteries and there's a company in there too. Hog Farm (talk) 03:37, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose, since the two parent categories are both about regiments it is better to keep the name and create a separate 3rd parent :Category:Missouri Confederate Civil War units for the artillery batteries and company. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:22, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
• oppose Categories do not get deleted because they contain some inapt content; they get pruned and other categories get created Hmains (talk) 17:28, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 13:56, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose Deleting/Listifying :Category:Canadian Motorsport Hall of Fame inductees

:Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)

:The Canadian Motorsport Hall of Fame was established in 1993 to honor Canadians active in auto racing. The organization seems fairly obscure and the articles are already Most of these articles mention the award in passing with other awards, with some exceptions that mention it in the lede or not at all. (Most the articles are so short there's no difference between the body and the intro though.) The contents of the category are already listified here within the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:07, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:24, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
• Delete per nominator....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:36, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 14:01, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose Deleting/Listifying :Category:Ultimate Fighting Championship Hall of Fame inductees

:Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD, WP:OVERLAPCAT)

:The UFC Hall of Fame was founded in 2003 and celebrates fighers who competed in the Ultimate Fighting Championship earlier in their career. Except for a couple execs and an announcer, these articles are in :Category:Ultimate Fighting Championship male fighters and many are also in :Category:Ultimate Fighting Championship champions. Getting this award later for that earlier effort is non-defining. That's reflected in the articles where this award is generally listed in passing with other accomplishments although [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Powderkegg&offset=20190707080311&limit=500&target=Powderkegg one enthusiastic editor] moved this award into the intro for many articles. The contents of the category are already listified here for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:07, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:25, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: purge channels. bibliomaniac15 02:40, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|NTA Film Network}}

:Nominator's rationale: Per Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_June_2#American_television_stations_by_former_network_affiliation ViperSnake151  Talk  01:09, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• Keep category, purge channels which is the more obvious consequence of the discussion cited by nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:28, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
• Purge Nom is conceptually correct, a part time network that only lasted a few years is non0definign to the station. RevelationDirect (talk) 21:29, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

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