Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 March 29#South Slavic surname categories

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 00:42, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Bielaski family}}

:Nominator's rationale: Non-defining category: every human is in a family, but not all families warrant categories, even if a few notable members have Wikipedia articles. --Animalparty! (talk) 23:12, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

:Oppose The existence of several articles on the family members indicates that the category is valid. The rationale does not explain why it would be non-defining to mention family background. Dimadick (talk) 12:55, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:SMALLCAT, with these few family members the articles can easily be interlinked directly. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:17, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
• Delete per nom and WP:SMALLCAT. --Just N. (talk) 14:26, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
• Delete this is not a recognized group.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:21, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: there is a consensus to keep the category, but there is no consensus on whether to keep it "as is" under its current name or to rename with a different scope. A follow-up nomination to rename/repurpose may be able to reach consensus on this issue. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:07, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Sibling artists}}

:Nominator's rationale: Appearently a category for artists who had siblings. ★Trekker (talk) 22:25, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

:*Keep, the category is for notable artists who are siblings of other notable artists. Artists in the same family. If anything other than that, the entries should be removed and not a removal of what is an interesting and selective category. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:37, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

:::That is in no way defining or a thing a category should ever be used for.★Trekker (talk) 22:45, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

::::Why? Randy Kryn (talk) 22:58, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

:::::How exactly would having a relative who is an artist also be defining for someone? Thousands of people trought history have passed down trades in families, should we also have categories for blacksmiths who's siblings were also blacksmiths?★Trekker (talk) 23:32, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

::::::Good point. The 'sibling group' category mentioned below may work which could include the entries Grutness has named. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:12, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

:::::::I support the below proposal as well.★Trekker (talk) 23:39, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

:Thoroughly purge. Category might be useful for articles about the siblings as a pair (e.g., Berman brothers (painters), The Casella Sisters, Olga and Galina Chichagova) but as it stands it's pointless. Grutness...wha? 23:08, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

• If kept, purge and rename to :Category:Artists sibling groups per Grutness, which ought to become a subcategory of :Category:Sibling groups. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:39, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
• Keep but Purge and Rename to :Category:Artists sibling groups per Grutness, which ought to become a subcategory of :Category:Sibling groups. --Just N. (talk) 14:29, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
• Keep without rename - Sibling artists is a straightforward name for a category of siblings that are all artists (e.g the Peale family). If it has been misunderstood as any artist with siblings, this could be corrected as noted above.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 01:28, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
• Delete In the case of the Peales, is "sibling artists" a defining characteristic or just simply a characteristic? "Rembrandt Peale was an American sibling artist?" We already have :Category:Peale family, that sensibly groups members with others in their artistic family. :Category:Sibling artists is a broad wastebasket for every artist, regardless of century, style, or country, who may have a sibling who is also an artist. The category seems to serve a niche curiosity rather than as a useful category for organizing related subjects. --Animalparty! (talk) 03:06, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
• Keep as is, without rename. Straightforward, simple category that avoids a proliferation of individual family categories and covers informal and/ or temporary collaborations between siblings which would not be considered an "Artist sibling group".14GTR (talk) 16:33, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

:* If they are not an artist sibling group then it is not a defining characteristic at all. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:25, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 00:40, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Randolph Academy of Performing Arts alumni to :Category:Randolph College for the Performing Arts alumni

:Nominator's rationale: Change to reflect the name of the school now becoming Randolph College for the Performing Arts. HighlandFacts (talk) 21:32, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

• Note Updated nom to fix obvious typo/redlink. - RevelationDirect (talk) 10:53, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
• Rename Main article boldly and accurately moved almost a year ago. - RevelationDirect (talk) 10:53, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
• Rename per nom. --Just N. (talk) 14:31, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Users are free to do what was suggested late in the discussion by {{u|Fayenatic london}}. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:14, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Administrative territorial entities by type to :Category:Types of geographical division

:Nominator's rationale: WP:NEO, WP:OR, and WP:DENY. I'm not sure whether all these belong there, so prune as necessary.

:*Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Territorial entity deleted WP:CSD#G5, WP:NEO, WP:OR, and WP:DENY.

:*Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 February 12#Category:Lists of administrative territorial entities

:*Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 February 10#Category:Administrative territorial entities by language

:*Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 January 10#Category:Administrative_territorial_entities

:*Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_August_27#Category:Humangeographic_territorial_entities

:William Allen Simpson (talk) 00:37, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

• If merge then purge, many subcategories are not about divisions, e.g. :Category:Monarchies, :Category:Principalities and :Category:Sultanates do not belong in a "types of division" parent. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:24, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
• Comment :Category:Types of administrative division seems to be the collecting places of many similar but not top-level divisions. I'm not sure that everything in this category belongs there - some may well - but this seems a subset of "categories of territories assigned by a headperson with a particular title" (e.g.) not all counts rule counties (very few recently), nor are all counties ruled by counts (the USA for instance). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:57, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
• Rename to :Category:Territorial entities by type, this is not about divisions nor is it necessarily administrative. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:43, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

• Support whether they serve administrative purposes as well as demarcation purposes is not particularly relevant. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:45, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
• Alt Rename to :Category:Territorial entities by type per Marcocapelle. --Just N. (talk) 14:36, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
• Partial merge. This contains articles and sub-cats, which need separate treatment. Move the articles into :Category:Types of geographical division; the two beginning with "special" can instead go to :Category:Types of administrative division. Then make a fresh nomination of this and the other 14 "Administrative territorial entities" categories for renaming together; I don't think it would be helpful to rename this one apart from the others. – Fayenatic London 19:33, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

:* The latter is a fair point. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:25, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge as nominated (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 21:03, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:New Zealand apocalyptic films to :Category:Apocalyptic films

:Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT for a single film. We don't have any comprehensive scheme of subcategorizing {{cl|Apocalyptic films}} by nationality, so there's no pressing need for this to stand alone as a special exception if there's only one film that anybody can be bothered to locate for it -- and for added bonus, the film is a NZ/Canada coproduction, but the creator of this categorized the film only for NZ-apocalyptic but not for Canadian-apocalyptic alongside it. I'm perfectly willing to withdraw this if somebody actually wants to take on the job of implementing such a subcategorization scheme so that this isn't an outlier anymore, but it isn't needed as a standalone category for just one film in a tree that isn't otherwise being subcategorized this way at all. Bearcat (talk) 15:33, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

• Merge per nom, and if it isn't done, it's not the end of the world... Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 16:21, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
• Merge per nominator....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:47, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
• Double merge to {{cl|Apocalyptic films}} and also to {{cl|New Zealand speculative fiction films}}. Seems a little unnecessary to have a New Zealand category but no other national category. If we ever split this category by country (as we have with {{cl|Post-apocalyptic films}}, where a New Zealand category survives nicely) then it can be reconsidered (assuming more films can be found), but for now this is superfluous. Grutness...wha? 00:19, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

::The film is already in {{cl|New Zealand science fiction films}}, so it doesn't need to be double-catted in the speculative fiction parent alongside that. Bearcat (talk) 14:04, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. --Just N. (talk) 14:41, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete, merging contents to "Music festivals in COUNTRY" categories. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 00:38, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

:* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contest by country

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Austria

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Azerbaijan‎

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Belgium‎

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Denmark‎

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Estonia‎

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Finland

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in France‎

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Germany‎

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Greece‎

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Ireland

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Israel

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Italy

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Latvia‎

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Luxembourg‎

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in the Netherlands‎

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Norway‎

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Portugal‎

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Russia‎

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Serbia‎

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Spain‎

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Sweden

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Switzerland

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Turkey

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Ukraine

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in the United Kingdom

::* Proposed deletion :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Yugoslavia‎

:Nominator's rationale: I believe this to be a case of WP:OCVENUE. While a country isn't really a "venue", these categories serve as an attempt to haphazardly group the handful of Eurovision Song Contests that took place in a country over time. I find it appropriate to have a contest in a category similar to "Music competitions in x country", but this level of description where we are defining the specific country results in WP:SMALLCAT. For example, Serbia has hosted once, but because of the above format, we have :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in Serbia‎ (1 category) in :Category:Music competitions in Serbia‎ (1 category), etc. This is true for many of these categories. This information is already present in a much more understandable format on List of host cities of the Eurovision Song Contest. The event isn't frequent enough for these categories to be helpful, nor is it particularly defined (unique) by being held in a specific country. Grk1011 (talk) 14:18, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

• Keep - the question would be whether the country is defining. Eurovision Song Contest 1990 mentions the country in the first line so the country does seem to be defining. (The individual categories are not tagged.) Oculi (talk) 14:25, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

::{{ping|Oculi}} You responded within minutes of me starting the long process of formatting the nomination and it wasn't quite ready yet. I invite you to reconsider now that the nomination is complete. Grk1011 (talk) 17:42, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

::: How is :Category:Eurovision Song Contests in the United Kingdom small? There is :Category:Eurovision Song Contest by year‎ as an alternative. 'By country' is not haphazard. Oculi (talk) 21:25, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

• Delete - agree it appears quite a clear example of WP:OCVENUE which doesn't add a lot of encyclopaedic value, and also falls under WP:SMALLCAT given the annual nature of the event and the rotating host countries, and given most countries on this list will have only hosted the event once or twice. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 16:06, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
• Support per WP:SMALLCAT but merge to :Category:Music festivals in Austria etcetera in order to keep the content in the relevant country tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:45, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
• Merge per {{u|Marcocapelle}}. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 21:49, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
• Merge per Marcocapelle. These do not aid navigation. - RevelationDirect (talk) 10:55, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
• Merge per Marcocapelle. --Just N. (talk) 14:42, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 04:08, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose Deleting/Listifying :Category:Recipients of the Order of the Lion and the Sun

::* Propose Deleting/Listifying :Category:Grand Cordons of the Order of the Lion and the Sun

::* Propose Deleting/Listifying :Category:Grand Officers of the Order of the Lion and the Sun‎

::* Propose Deleting/Listifying :Category:Recipients of the Order of the Lion and the Sun, 4th class‎

:Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD and WP:PERFCAT)

:During the Qajar Dynasty, Iran gave out the Order of the Lion and the Sun to foreign people. Some of these people received the award as a diplomatic souvenir like Carol I of Romania, Otto von Bismarck, and Leopold II of Belgium. Others have ties to Iran: Gore Ouseley, was a negotiator in the Russo-Persian Wars, Eric Hermelin translated works from Persian, and Edward Granville Browne was a prominent Iranologist but that's why those articles are already in :Category:People of the Russo-Persian Wars, :Category:Translators from Persian and :Category:Iranologists, respectively. While some of the recipients are defined by their association with Iran, none seem defined by the award which generally gets a passing mention in the articles. I expanded the main articles so all the category contents are now right here for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:43, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

• Delete, obvious case of WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:26, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. --Just N. (talk) 14:47, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 04:07, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose Deleting/Listifying :Category:Recipients of the Medal of St. Hallvard

:Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD and WP:OVERLAPCAT)

:The Medal of St. Hallvard is a local municipal award given by the city of Oslo, Norway. Within the articles, the award is generally mentioned in passing as part of a list of other honours so it doesn't seem defining for Arnstein Arneberg, Arild Sandvold, Per Aabel or any other article you want to click on. A number of these people were retired mayors of Oslo (1, 2, 3, 4) who are already well categorized under :Category:Mayors of Oslo. I expanded the main article so all the category contents are now listified right here for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:43, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

• Background We deleted categories for similar awards from New York City and Krakow here and here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:43, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
• Delete, obvious case of WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:27, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. --Just N. (talk) 14:47, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.