Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 1

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Education fraud. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 02:41, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Education fraud by country to :Category:Education fraud

:Nominator's rationale: Only two categories in here, which is not super helpful for navigation. There's not a parent category for Education fraud, so I think that this category should be repurposed Mason (talk) 23:51, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

• Support for now, but as a matter of fact I think the whole tree can go. We do not have an article on Education fraud and in this tree there are only two articles directly about fraud, Bogus colleges in the United Kingdom and Trump University which may well be moved to an education controversies category. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:16, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
• Support – it was easy to populate the US sub-category, as there were more education-related articles in its parent about fraud, and others findable by a search. It is the UK category which is weaker, containing articles on regulators (one of which I have removed) mentioning fraud prevention, rather than on frauds; I suggest that it should be nominated after this for a selective merge, purging regulators, only moving the single article on bogus colleges up to the parent. – Fayenatic London 15:17, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: rename as nominated. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 02:42, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:14th-century Bohemian rabbis to :Category:14th-century rabbis from Bohemia

• :Category:18th-century Bohemian Roman Catholic priests to :Category:18th-century Roman Catholic priests from Bohemia
• :Category:16th-century Bohemian Roman Catholic priests to :Category:16th-century Roman Catholic priests from Bohemia
• :Category:15th-century Bohemian Roman Catholic priests to :Category:15th-century Roman Catholic priests from Bohemia
• :Category:14th-century Bohemian Roman Catholic priests to :Category:14th-century Roman Catholic priests from Bohemia
• :Category:12th-century Bohemian rabbis to :Category:12th-century rabbis from Bohemia
• :Category:13th-century Bohemian rabbis to :Category:13th-century rabbis from Bohemia
• :Category:14th-century Bohemian rabbis to :Category:14th-century rabbis from Bohemia
• :Category:15th-century Bohemian rabbis to :Category:15th-century rabbis from Bohemia
• :Category:16th-century Bohemian rabbis to :Category:16th-century rabbis from Bohemia
• :Category:18th-century Bohemian rabbis to :Category:18th-century rabbis from Bohemia

:Nominator's rationale: C2C with :Category:18th-century clergy from Bohemia; was opposed at speedy in spite of there being an extremely recent consensus on this Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_October_10#Category:Bohemian_clergy Mason (talk) 22:11, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

{{collapse top|copy of speedy discussion}}

• :Category:18th-century Bohemian Roman Catholic priests to :Category:18th-century Roman Catholic priests from Bohemia – C2C with :Category:18th-century clergy from Bohemia – Fayenatic London 12:46, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
• :Category:16th-century Bohemian Roman Catholic priests to :Category:16th-century Roman Catholic priests from Bohemia
• :Category:15th-century Bohemian Roman Catholic priests to :Category:15th-century Roman Catholic priests from Bohemia
• :Category:14th-century Bohemian Roman Catholic priests to :Category:14th-century Roman Catholic priests from Bohemia
• :Category:12th-century Bohemian rabbis to :Category:12th-century rabbis from Bohemia
• :Category:13th-century Bohemian rabbis to :Category:13th-century rabbis from Bohemia
• :Category:14th-century Bohemian rabbis to :Category:14th-century rabbis from Bohemia
• :Category:15th-century Bohemian rabbis to :Category:15th-century rabbis from Bohemia
• :Category:16th-century Bohemian rabbis to :Category:16th-century rabbis from Bohemia
• :Category:18th-century Bohemian rabbis to :Category:18th-century rabbis from Bohemia
• :Oppose; this name change would be going against C2C. Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:46, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
• :* {{ping|Omnis Scientia}} how exactly does it go against C2C? Marcocapelle (talk) 21:52, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
• :*:Most clergy people by century are written as, for example, :Category:20th-century American rabbis or :Category:18th-century British Roman Catholic priests. The nationality comes before the title in the naming format. So it would no longer be consistant. Omnis Scientia (talk) 21:56, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
• :*:* But there are a few deliberate exceptions e.g. :Category:Clergy from Georgia (country). Bohemia is a similar deliberate exception, to avoid confusion with Bohemian. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:28, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
• :*:*:So it would like how people from former countries/empires are written? Like :Category:People from the Russian Empire as oppose to :Category:Russian people. Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:36, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
• :*:*::@Marcocapelle, if this is the case then I would like to take back my initial "oppose" vote. Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:47, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
• :Oppose speedy. People who are from Bohemia, a geographical location, is different than people who are Bohemian. Clergy/rabbis/etc. may be German or Ukrainian, or Bohemian and be from Bohemia without being necessarily Bohemian, so the whole thing needs to be clarified at a greater length and with more consultation than is fitting for speedy renaming. Jahaza (talk) 02:24, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
• ::{{ping|Jahaza}}There have been several recent full conversations about this exact issue, including one explicitly about clergy. Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 10#Category:Bohemian clergy. I can pull up the additional ones if you feel it is neccessary. Mason (talk) 20:32, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

{{cob}}

: {{ping|Omnis Scientia|Marcocapelle|Jahaza|Fayenatic london}} pinging contributors to speedy discussion. Mason (talk) 22:13, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom (or else, for rabbis specifically, rename to "in" Bohemia, at least avoiding Bohemian). Marcocapelle (talk) 10:23, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
• Although "in" was chosen for al-Andalus at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_January_28#People_of_Al-Andalus, that may be one of a small number of special cases. Most siblings are by nationality rather than country of work, and the contents are people from Bohemia, so "from" is correct here. – Fayenatic London 15:02, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 02:39, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Asian descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Afghan descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Bangladeshi descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Chinese descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Japanese descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Pakistani descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Sri Lankan descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Middle Eastern descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Iraqi descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Jordanian descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Lebanese descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Palestinian descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Syrian descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Turkish descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Yemeni descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Nigerian descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Algerian descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Chadian descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Moroccan descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Arab people of Coptic descent}}

:Nominator's rationale: Following the discussions at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 16 and Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 20, ethnic categories should be reserved for individuals who are identified as Arabs in reliable sources, rather than being used as containers for countries. Yorkporter (talk) 21:56, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

• Delete all per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:25, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. There are significant minorities in most of these countries who do not define themselves as Arabs (e.g. Copts in Egypt, Kurds in Iraq & Syria, Kabyles/Berbers in Algeria) so this category scheme is just wrong. Place Clichy (talk) 18:34, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Fictional spree killers. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 02:36, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

:Rename :Category:Fictional rampage and spree killers to :Category:Fictional spree killers

:Nominator's rationale: This new name would not only be shorter, but also parallels well with its real-life counterpart, :Category:Spree killers. AHI-3000 (talk) 19:32, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

::Support per nom. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 07:53, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom (or if some articles definitely fit "rampage" better than "spree" then split the category). Marcocapelle (talk) 10:34, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete and merge those with "Jedi" in the title to :Category:Jedi. Some of the categories are already empty at time of writing. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 17:06, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|The New Jedi Order}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|The Dark Nest trilogy}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|The Han Solo Adventures}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Jedi Academy trilogy}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Jedi Prince}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Jedi Quest}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|The Last of the Jedi}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Legacy of the Force}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Star Wars: X-wing (book series)}}

:Nominator's rationale: Every category in this nomination contains only 1 article. They are categories for Star Wars book series where the individual book articles have been merged/redirected to the now only remaining article. Mika1h (talk) 18:28, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

::Comment. Could be speedy merged under C2F: One eponymous page if you identify a merge targetMason (talk) 22:20, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

• Support in principle per nom. But shouldn't they be merged to :Category:Jedi rather than plainly deleted? Marcocapelle (talk) 10:38, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
• selective merge to {{cat|Jedi}}, just the ones with "Jedi" in the title. They are all already in :Category:Star Wars Legends novels which matters more. – Fayenatic London 16:47, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:American people by state or territory. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 20:43, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:People from the United States by state to :Category:American people by state or territory

:Nominator's rationale: This would fit with both parents :Category:American people by location and {{c|Categories by state or territory of the United States}}, and other recent consensuses to use "by state or territory" including Washington, D.C., Puerto Rico and other insular areas. – Fayenatic London 16:06, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

::Support per nom. It helps with navigation and seems unnessary to isolate the non-states. Mason (talk) 22:19, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

:::@Fayenatic london, I think it would also make sense to merge :Category:American people by location to :Category:People from the United States by state. The former contains categories of people from Washington, D.C. and the insular areas and also contains categories which are present in the latter. Omnis Scientia (talk) 08:32, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

:::: I don't agree about a full merge, as "by location" also includes subcats for regions and populated places, but some content can be moved. As for insular areas, they have their own hierarchy, and I would like to modify my nomination to including Puerto Rico and other insular areas where there is not enough content to make an "insular areas" category useful. – Fayenatic London 12:29, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

:::::Yes, that makes sense. Omnis Scientia (talk) 12:37, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

• Support, including the renaming of the many children categories. Note that besides Washington D.C. and present-day territories (which are all located on islands and therefore often referred to as insular areas), US-related categories also include content for historical territories before statehood and the uninhabited minor outlying islands. Place Clichy (talk) 18:29, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
• Support -- This prevents us needing a separate tree for DC and territories. Peterkingiron (talk) 19:34, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: split to :Category:American spies and :Category:Spies for the United States. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 13:37, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:American spies to :Category:Spies for the United States

:Nominator's rationale: As same as subcategories of :Category:Spies by nationality. 寒吉 (talk) 11:28, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

• This can be split between :Category:American spies and :Category:Spies for the United States. There is quite some content here that would only fit in one or the other. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:56, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
• :Support splitting AHI-3000 (talk) 19:12, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
• Split per Marcocapelle. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 14:20, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
• Split -- spies need splitting by nationality and target country. There is also the possibility of a Frenchman spying for Russia against USA, which would require three categories. Peterkingiron (talk) 19:38, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Fictional Chinese people. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 02:35, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Fictional Manchu people to :Category:Fictional Chinese people

:Nominator's rationale: merge for now, only one article in the category. This nomination is without objection to recreate the category when multiple articles about fictional Manchu people are published. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:04, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

::Oppose AHI-3000 (talk) 11:00, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

• Comment We have an article on Fah Lo Suee, Fu Manchu's daughter. Dimadick (talk) 14:11, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
• :I added that page to this category. AHI-3000 (talk) 19:23, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
• ::Support per nom. @AHI-3000 please explain WHY you oppose. Mason (talk) 22:18, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
• :::I don't agree with this concept of merging every category just because there's only one or two articles in it. AHI-3000 (talk) 22:21, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
• :::* The fewer articles in a category, the fewer you can navigate to from one article to another in the same topic area. When you want to know something about a topic area it is more useful to have a few dozens of articles in a category. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:42, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
• Support As overcategorization. Wikipedia policy is to aim for as few categories as necessary, only creating categories when it would assist navigation. Such overspecific categories hinder navigation more than assist it. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 12:33, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 17:10, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Fictional British people by ethnicity to :Category:Fictional British people

:Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only two subcategories. Also add :Category:Fictional Black British people directly to :Category:Fictional people by ethnicity. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:01, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

::Merge to :Category:Fictional British people by ethnic or national origin instead. All these categories belong there. AHI-3000 (talk) 11:02, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

::* No they don't, this is about characters' own etnicity, not about ancestors' nationality. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:57, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

::*:What's the distinction between ethnic ancestry and national ancestry? You're the one who arbitrarily gutted this category of its subcategories. AHI-3000 (talk) 19:05, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

:::Since this category has been deleted/merged, then I alternately suggest to merge :Category:Fictional British characters by descent into :Category:Fictional British people by ethnicity. AHI-3000 (talk) 05:35, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

:::* It is not about their ethnic ancestry but about their own ethnicity. A Jew is a Jew by himself (ethnicity), while someone in a Jewish descent category has Jewish ancestors but is not a Jew by himself. That is a big difference. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:47, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. This category layer does not improve navigation with just 2 children. Also, ancestry/descent is not the topic here. Fictional characters in fact rarely have an ancestry, although in the case of a select few fictional ancestors may be specified. Place Clichy (talk) 18:43, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
• Merge as nominated per Place Clichy. HouseBlaster^talk 02:34, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
• Merge per nom. This is an unnecessary level, merely housing 3 subcats. Peterkingiron (talk) 19:41, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Fictional Brazilian people. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 02:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Fictional Brazilian people by ethnicity to :Category:Fictional Brazilian people

:Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only two subcategories. There is no need to merge to :Category:Fictional people by ethnicity because the subcategories are already deeper down in that tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:59, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

::Support per nom. Mason (talk) 22:21, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

::Oppose AHI-3000 (talk) 09:10, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Not a useful navigation layer with just two children. Place Clichy (talk) 18:45, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Iranian lesbians. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 02:32, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Iranian lesbians by occupation to :Category:Iranian lesbians

:Nominator's rationale: upmerge for now. There's no other categories in the parent, so this doesn't help navigation Mason (talk) 05:30, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:49, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: speedily renamed under WP:G7. – Fayenatic London 12:32, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Users willing to set up archiving to :Category:Wikipedians willing to set up archiving

:Nominator's rationale: Per standard naming conventions of starting user categories with "Wikipedians". VegaDark (talk) 01:59, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

::I have no problem with that. I can rename it right now if appropriate. - FlightTime (open channel) 02:02, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:56, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

::{{done}} Special:Diff/1187804468 - FlightTime (open channel) 14:45, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

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