Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 February 12#Category:Rulers

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 16:50, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Israeli people of Soviet-Jewish descent to :Category:Israeli people of USSR-Jewish descent

:Nominator's rationale: I'm happy if a better term that USSR is provided for a new category name, however "Soviet" is the taking of one word from USSR, and appears pejorative. In 2023 we can do better than that 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:55, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

::{{comment}} I am equally happy with delete as an outcome of this proposal 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 14:34, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

• Delete — Soviet descent is not a thing. Second of yet another long process of descent deletions.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 02:43, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
• Delete, articles are already in Russian-Jewish, Ukrainian-Jewish etc categories (if anything is stated about descent at all). Marcocapelle (talk) 06:03, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
• Disperse to containerise -- Ultimately delete -- USSR is a defunct country. I suspect that most emigration took place in the period after it was dissolved. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:52, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 16:51, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|American people of Soviet descent}}

:Nominator's rationale: Empty category, following various removals recently, "Soviet" seems a term that fails in 2023. I'm happy if there is a proposal for a better term 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

• Delete. Soviet descent is not a thing. There were undeniably Soviet nationals and some (not all) of them are primarily defined as such by reliable sources rather than, e.g., Russian or Armenian. However, people descending from Soviet emigrants will nearly always define themselves by their national origin (or plurality thereof) rather than their fore-bearer's citizenship in transnational Soviet Union. This logic can be extended to all national subcategories in :Category:People of Soviet descent, which are all empty except the {{C|Soviet emigrants}} categories Place Clichy (talk) 23:55, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
• Comment This category has already been emptied. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:25, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
• Delete empty category, Soviet descent is not a thing. Start of yet another long process of descent deletions.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 02:42, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
• Delete -- USSR was Union of SSRs, and people had an internal nationality as Russian, Turkmen, Tartar, etc. We should discourage this use of defunct country. However I would not welcome a long campaign of removing descent categories, as a lot of work has been done on rationalising these in the past. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:55, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 16:52, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Agrigento to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Sicily

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Alessandria to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Piedmont

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Ancona to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Marche

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Asti to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Piedmont

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Bari to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Apulia

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Barletta-Andria-Trani to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Apulia

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Belluno to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Veneto

{{cot|more categories}}

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Bologna to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Emilia-Romagna

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Brescia to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Lombardy

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Brindisi to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Apulia

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Cagliari to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Sardinia

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Campobasso to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Molise

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Caserta to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Campania

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Catania to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Sicily

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Catanzaro to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Calabria

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Cosenza to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Calabria

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Cremona to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Lombardy

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Crotone to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Calabria

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Cuneo to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Piedmont

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Enna to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Sicily

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Ferrara to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Emilia-Romagna

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Florence to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Tuscany

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Forlì-Cesena to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Emilia-Romagna

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Genoa to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Liguria

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Grosseto to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Tuscany

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Imperia to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Liguria

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Isernia to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Molise

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of La Spezia to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Liguria

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of L'Aquila to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Abruzzo

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Lecce to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Apulia

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Lecco to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Lombardy

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Livorno to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Tuscany

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Lodi to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Lombardy

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Mantua to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Lombardy

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Massa-Carrara to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Tuscany

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Milan to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Lombardy

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Modena to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Emilia-Romagna

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Monza and Brianza to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Lombardy

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Naples to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Campania

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Padua to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Veneto

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Palermo to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Sicily

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Pesaro and Urbino to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Marche

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Pescara to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Abruzzo

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Piacenza to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Emilia-Romagna

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Pisa to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Tuscany

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Pordenone to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Friuli-Venezia Giulia

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Potenza to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Basilicata

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Prato to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Tuscany

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Ravenna to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Emilia-Romagna

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Rimini to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Emilia-Romagna

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Rome to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Lazio

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Salerno to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Campania

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Sassari to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Sardinia

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Savona to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Liguria

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Sondrio to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Lombardy

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Terni to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Umbria

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Trapani to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Sicily

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Treviso to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Veneto

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Trieste to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Friuli-Venezia Giulia

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Turin to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Piedmont

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Udine to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Friuli-Venezia Giulia

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Varese to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Lombardy

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Verona to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Veneto

:* Propose merging :Category:Presidents of the Province of Vicenza to :Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and :Category:Politicians of Veneto

{{cob}}

:Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, nearly all of these categories only contain 1-3 articles. Two categories contains 4 articles, Milan contains 5 articles. Many provinces do not have a category in this tree at all. Note that provinces are the 2nd level administrative divisions of Italy, not 1st level. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:25, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

• Keep. Consider that provinces were 1st level subdivisions from 1861 to 1970 and provincial presidents are notable.--Alienautic (talk) 20:31, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
• Keep. Per above reason by Alienautic. We forget sometimes that one size doesn't fit all for each country's political systems. Italian Wikipedia specifically has categories for each, and I would err on the side of native speakers who understand Italian state and provincial politics, rather than mass mergers or deletions. Scanlan (talk) 14:02, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
• Keep -- If the Italian WP can manage 5 articles per category, the English WP ought to be able to await translations being uploaded to it. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:58, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:03, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Fictional motherships to :Category:Fictional spacecraft

:Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT, there is only one actual article in the category. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:56, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

• Agree. That makes sense. --Bduke (talk) 03:43, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
• Both categories are already populated in :Category:Fictional spacecraft so delete. –Aidan721 (talk) 15:53, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
• Merge/delete
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:00, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: rename & reparent. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:04, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Pakistani scholars of Islam to :Category:Pakistani Muslim scholars of Islam

:Nominator's rationale: rename per actual content, and reparent to :Category:Muslim scholars of Islam by nationality‎. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:58, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

• Rename and re-parent as nominated. Although I question whether Muslim, Sunni Muslim, etc. have any special knowledege of Islam, that would be another discussion.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:04, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:08, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Sportspeople of European descent}}

:** Propose deleting {{lc|Sportspeople by European country of descent}}

:** Propose deleting {{lc|Sportspeople of Southern European descent}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Argentine sportspeople of European descent}} (3C)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|French sportspeople of European descent}} (1P, 1C)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|German sportspeople of European descent}} (1C)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Uruguayan sportspeople of European descent}} (1C)

:Nominator's rationale: recent proliferation of tiny categories with unusual and irrelevant hierarchical organization. Wikipedia:Category naming does not provide for by region encapsulating by country.

:Summary: There's no rhyme nor reason for this convoluted tree, entangled with others, very few articles. Continuing removals after categories were emptied by previous discussions.

:Followup to:

1. Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 3#Category:American sportspeople of European descent
2. Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 26#Category:European sportspeople by ethnic or national origin

:William Allen Simpson (talk) 17:57, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

• {{ping|Place Clichy}} who asked for this earlier. Other entangled categories are still being deleted as empty.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 20:30, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
• Query- is the intention (ultimately) to delete/upmerge the likes of :Category:Sportspeople of Albanian descent and :Category:Russian sportspeople of Georgian descent? If so a different rationale is needed since these are not small and are part of standard hierarchies {:Category:People of Albanian descent and :Category:Russian people of Georgian descent). Oculi (talk) 21:54, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

:*Answer — these are all "of European descent"; thus do not match any part of this query, nor speculation about unrelated rationale.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 02:31, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

:** I'll take that as a convoluted 'no'. In that case, is there any intention to do something about :Category:People of European descent, which contains all the above and is presumably also often 'understood as a proxy for race'? Oculi (talk) 21:31, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

:::*Waiting for your CfD nomination and rationale.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:52, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

• Delete. These intersections of occupation and regional descent are not eligible per WP:OCEGRS. Also, they are often used and understood as a proxy for race, which are prohibitid by WP:ETHNICRACECAT. Categorization by national origin is widely sufficient to convey the notion, provided individuals are actually defined as such by reliable sources. Place Clichy (talk) 23:42, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
• Delete, occupation and descent is a trivial intersection. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:25, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
• Delete -- most of these contain nothing but an Italian subcategory. Peterkingiron (talk) 19:10, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:09, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:LGBT in Oman to :Category:Gender in Oman

:Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT that is a near-miss WP:C2F, containing only LGBT rights in Oman. The merge target is the only one that does not already contain the article either directly or in a subcategory. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 14:36, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

• On the one hand this is a clear case of the "smallcat exception rule" (part of a large established tree, :Category:LGBT by country), on the other hand one might question if this should be a large established tree as there are so many subcategories with only one article. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:04, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
• I would share Marco's misgivings. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:47, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
• Merge, as the article is already in other relevant parents e.g. via {{c|LGBT rights by country}}. – Fayenatic London 14:10, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: keep. Withdrawn by nom. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:22, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Baroque architecture in the Ottoman Empire}}

:** Propose renaming :Category:Baroque mosques of the Ottoman Empire to ??? (added 9 Feb)

:Nominator's rationale: delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory and one article, but move the article Cathedral of the Holy Spirit to :Category:Buildings and structures of the Ottoman Empire. The subcategory and article are already in the Baroque buildings tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:42, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

• There is also Mihrişah Sultan Complex (rescued from :Category:Ottoman Baroque architecture). The article Ottoman Baroque architecture could also be added. This seems enough content to make the category useful. The category also seems justified under the exception to WP:SMALLCAT as part of :Category:Baroque architecture by country. – Fayenatic London 20:20, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Possibly, but it is still a very small category. Also note that :Category:Baroque architecture by country is a tree by modern country. If the category is kept, shouldn't it be renamed to the just recently deleted :Category:Ottoman Baroque architecture per WP:C2D? Marcocapelle (talk) 20:32, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

:** Architecture by country and period or style has a lot of very small categories.

:** That C2D naming pattern has been followed for :Category:English Baroque architecture and :Category:Spanish Baroque architecture, although not for French or Italian. It would justify keeping an Ottoman category as opposed to using the modern country, :Category:Baroque architecture in Turkey.

:** On the other hand, Cathedral of the Holy Spirit plus Tulip Period architecture would belong in Baroque architecture in Turkey (or …in Ottoman Empire), but not in Ottoman Baroque. So I'm inclined to Keep the current name. – Fayenatic London 21:06, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

• For the record, I added Tulip Period architecture to the current category, but {{user|R Prazeres}} removed it. – Fayenatic London 21:31, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
• :There's no good reason Tulip Period architecture would be placed in any of the "Baroque" categories. Even if we follow the same problematic logic currently being used to categorize Ottoman Baroque architecture, the relevance is indirect at most in this case. R Prazeres (talk) 21:49, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
• ::On the contrary, there are two citations for the sentence "The term “Baroque” is sometimes applied more widely to Ottoman art and architecture across the 18th century including the Tulip Period." – Fayenatic London 21:57, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
• :::I wrote that content so I'm well aware. But that's a specifically-contextualized mention of terminology varying among some authors who are exclusively discussing Islamic/Ottoman architecture; it does not invite us to make a leap to categorically (no pun intended) grouping the topic into "Baroque architecture" in a general encyclopedia where that category clearly refers to Western Baroque architecture, not to the mere use of the word "baroque". In other words, not a defining characteristic of the subject per WP:CATDEF. This could be discussed further, but I think it's best left for the article's talk page rather than here. For the discussion here, I think the relevant point is that our arguments shouldn't be conditioned on whether or not Tulip Period architecture would be included in the nominated category, because it's a stretch.
  
• :::All that said, I agree with you above to keep the current category. I've said elsewhere that there are other non-mosque articles which would belong in it (either now or after content improvements), like Büyük Yeni Han and Tomb of Abdul Hamid I, which would likely make the WP:SMALLCAT issue go away fairly easily. R Prazeres (talk) 23:14, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
• {{ping|Fayenatic london}} I think we should create :Category:Baroque architecture in Turkey anyway, for consistency with other modern country categories. It will contain these two (or three) articles plus the ten mosques which all happen to be in Turkey as well. Both :Category:Baroque architecture in the Ottoman Empire and :Category:Baroque mosques of the Ottoman Empire‎ will then become redundant. Only Çapanoğlu Mosque should be added to :Category:Ottoman mosques in Turkey, the other 9 mosques are already in :Category:Ottoman mosques in Istanbul or :Category:Ottoman mosques in Bursa. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:19, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
• {{ping|Marcocapelle}} having Baroque architecture by country does not make :Category:Baroque church buildings redundant, so I think some category should be retained for Baroque mosques. Perhaps :Category:Baroque architecture in Turkey and :Category:Ottoman Baroque mosques (or :Category:Ottoman Baroque mosques in Turkey) would suffice. I have added the mosques category to this nomination. – Fayenatic London 12:45, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose — neither is small anymore. Remember, the word "Ottoman" is a quasi-ethnicity in "Ottoman Baroque", versus a nationality in "Ottoman Empire". Baroque architecture can appear anywhere in the Ottoman Empire, not just modern Turkey. This mosque style can be anywhere in the Ottoman Empire, not just modern Turkey. Many are/were in Egypt. We just don't have a lot of articles yet. These broad categories better reflect facts on the ground. Agreed that an editor is making extremely fine distinctions, that I'm not sure are taught in art or architectural history.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:10, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 12:40, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

• I am withdrawing this nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:57, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per comments, improvements, and the withdrawal of the nomination. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:06, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:14, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Rabbis from Prague to :Category:Rabbis of Prague

:Nominator's rationale: for obvious reasons. -- -- -- 21:10, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

• Merge both to :Category:Rabbis in Prague. Strangely, both categories have already been nominated (merging to each other).

:#:Category:Rabbis from Prague parent is :Category:Jews and Judaism in Prague.

:#:Category:Rabbis of Prague parent is :Category:Rabbis by city where most are "from", only 2 "of", and 1 "in".

:#Both are :Category:Clergy from Prague, but the only other subcategory is :Category:Roman Catholic bishops of Prague. No consistency.

:#We've been using "in" most recently, see :Category:Rabbis in Israel by city and its many subcategories.

:William Allen Simpson (talk) 22:03, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose as nominated, for consistency. Most siblings use "from", whereas cities in Israel use "in". In addition, "of" suggests a title or suggests heading the whole territory (heading the whole city of Prague, in this case) which is not necessarily correct. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:07, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

:*{{U|Marcocapelle}}, should we go back to the already documented {{tl|Fooers from Boo}} (that is, :Category:Rabbis from Prague)? That would clean up the existing 2 "of", and 1 "in".
William Allen Simpson (talk) 03:50, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

::* I am supporting reverse merge or your alternative above. Sorry that was not quite clear. Ultimately a batch nomination should follow. Honestly I think "in" might be better for any occupation. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:12, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose all suggestions = a rabbi from Prague is a rabbi of anywhere who was from Prague; Rabbi of Prague is a position (according to the articles); a rabbi in Prague would be a 3rd category. Oculi (talk) 10:52, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

::No, {{tq|a rabbi of anywhere who was from Prague}} would be in an immigrant category, not this category. The "of" categories are supposedly for cases where there is only 1 at a time: archbishops, not clergy. It's all getting annoyingly inconsistent.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:48, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 23:26, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

• Further comment - there is a position 'Chief Rabbi of Prague'; the present one is [https://www.kehilaprag.cz/en/page/rabbinate-jcp/rabbinate/vrchni-prazsky-rabin_309 David Peter]. I would suggest a rename of :Category:Rabbis of Prague to {{cl|Chief rabbis of Prague}} (subcat of :Category:Chief rabbis of cities and :Category:Rabbis from Prague) and removal of those who don't fit. Someone from Prague who is a rabbi in say the UK will be in 'Rabbis from Prague' and in expatriate categories. Oculi (talk) 01:27, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

:*Agree, rename :Category:Rabbis of Prague to :Category:Chief rabbis of Prague under :Category:Chief rabbis of cities, and purge them all. Disagree, any rabbi from Prague has to actually have been a rabbi in Prague before migrating to UK; otherwise, no occupation intersection with Prague.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 09:18, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose - these are 2 separate categories. As Oculi said, Rabbis from Prague are rabbis who were born in Prague. Rabbis of Prague could be from anywhere. I think "Chief Rabbi of Prague" would be a subcategory of Rabbis of Prague. Rlendog (talk) 16:34, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

:*We prohibit categorizing occupations by birth place.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 09:18, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 17:13, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Bronze Age literature}}

:Nominator's rationale: Per WP:DEFINING, WP:OVERCATEGORIZATION, WP:SMALLCAT - all of the entries here already belong in :Category:Ancient Near East literature and all but two of them (Ugaritic, Hittite) continued into the Iron age. :Category:Ancient Near East literature can be categorized under :Category:Iron Age and :Category:Bronze Age to fix the category tree. - car chasm (talk) 23:05, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

• Delete, trivial intersection. In addition it is not a good idea to categorize :Category:Ancient Near East literature under :Category:Iron Age and :Category:Bronze Age because it is not a subset of any of the two. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:47, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
• weak keep yes there is overlap, but ANE literature notably combines Bronze Age and Iron Age literature, and a category that covers half of another major category is hardly "overcategorization". There are also minor exceptions that belong in the Bronze Age but not the ANE category, mostly Rigveda and ancient China. But note that there are major subcategories that are Iron Age and not ANE (China, India, Greece, Rome, early Germanic). I understand the impetus to reduce excessive category cruft, but this noble impulse is overshooting its mark in this particular case imho. --dab (𒁳) 08:48, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
• Selective merge to :Category:Ancient Near East literature. The Bronze Age did not exclusively occur in the Near East. Do not re-categorize :Category:Ancient Near East literature under :Category:Iron Age and :Category:Bronze Age, that's not the purpose of those categories.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:39, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
• Comment -- It is not usual to categorise civilisations of Near East or Asia generally as to whether they had or had not begun to use iron. It is probably better to categorise it by millennium - 1st M BC and pre-1000 BC. There were probably not enough literate civilisations to need any geographic split. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:23, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
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• Oppose The rationale is nonsensical. Mentioning a silly page on overcategorization does not p[rove that there is overcategorization, or that it is at all relevant to this category. And Wikipediua has a chroniuc problem with undercategorization. Dimadick (talk) 15:37, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
• Delete/Selective Merge per WAS. The level of metallurgy doesn't seem defining here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:15, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.