Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 25#Category:Ottoman Baroque architecture

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Delete Timrollpickering (talk) 14:10, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Legends Football League venues}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Minor League Football Association venues}}

:Nominator's rationale: Low-level league played in stadiums not specific to American football. WP:NONDEF and fails to satisfy exception by WP:OCVENUE. –Aidan721 (talk) 23:26, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

• Delete, they are all multi-purpose arenas. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:54, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete & rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 23:31, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Ottoman Baroque architecture}}

:** Propose renaming :Category:Baroque mosques to :Category:Baroque mosques of the Ottoman Empire

:Nominator's rationale: New WP:SMALLCAT with only main article and one subcategory. All content is also in the one subcategory, so easiest to delete this. Since they aren't making any more of these (the Ottoman Empire is over), no likelihood of expansion. These are :Category:Buildings and structures of the Ottoman Empire.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 08:29, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose: per my edit summary [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Baroque_mosques&diff=1132460417&oldid=1089337503 here], it would be more appropriate to delete and redirect :Category:Baroque mosques to this category, as it's an unnecessary subcategory but not a sufficient one on its own. Most important examples of Ottoman Baroque are mosques but the category is too narrow to accommodate non-mosque examples of Ottoman Baroque (of which there are still many) and too vaguely named to be recognized as referring to the Ottoman context ("Baroque mosques in the Ottoman Empire" is better, but still unnecessary). I've added Mihrişah Sultan Complex to :Category:Ottoman Baroque architecture just now, another example of this style which isn't a mosque, and there are many other buildings which could fit here in the future if the articles either exist and haven't been sorted or don't exist but could be created in the future. Either way, it's appropriate to have a broader category for Ottoman Baroque buildings. Not opposed to a rename instead, as long it's clear. R Prazeres (talk) 08:44, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

:*The broader category is already :Category:Baroque architecture in the Ottoman Empire since 2008.

:#Probably should be of, but expected to be speedy later.

:#:Category:Ottoman Baroque architecture was just made (today) by {{U|R Prazeres}}. It was duplicative and not necessary, so I've quickly nominated it for deletion.

:#Article Ottoman Baroque architecture was also made by {{U|R Prazeres}} a few months ago. The term is also called "Turkish Baroque". As centuries older style "Ottoman architecture" is rather different than 19th century "Turkish Baroque", the more descriptive name is "Baroque architecture in the Ottoman Empire".

:#:Category:Baroque mosques was made only a year ago, so it's fairly recent. These are all in the Ottoman Empire.

:#It would be silly to delete and redirect :Category:Baroque mosques, as these are by far the most numerous examples, cross-categorized under long standing :Category:Mosques.

:#These are all :Category:Buildings and structures of the Ottoman Empire.

::William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:30, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

::*This response is astonishing, and seems to miss the point that Wikipedia is a work in progress. Why would we stick to unclear, imprecise, and potentially misleading category names, when we have the actual common terminology laid out in the main articles according to reliable sources? Why would we insist on an independent WP:OR classification in the categories just because it previously existed, with no basis in sources or even the articles?

::* To the main point: I've already explained the issue at that category's talk page here: "Baroque" architecture and "Ottoman Baroque" architecture are not the same thing, even if related. There may be actual examples of traditional European Baroque (Revival) architecture within the empire after the mid-19th century, the only relevant article currently being Cathedral of the Holy Spirit, but everything else belongs to a specific and recognizable subset of Ottoman architecture, not of Baroque architecture in the same tradition as European churches. If you need more context then read Ottoman architecture or the sources cited there; that's what they're for.

::**So if we want to use the older :Category:Baroque architecture in the Ottoman Empire as the main category for Ottoman Baroque buildings, then it needs to be renamed accordingly and the single church article should move elsewhere, as it's neither the same period or same style as the mosques. If not, then by all means delete it per WP:SMALLCAT if you like.

::* Re: #3: I don't even know what point you're trying to make here. Ottoman Baroque architecture was actually created two years ago, not months ago, (and is thoroughly sourced, I might add) and is an expansion of the subtopic covered at Ottoman architecture. The "Ottoman Baroque" or "Turkish Baroque" actually corresponds largely to the 18th century, bleeding into the early 19th century, and it's part of Ottoman architecture as I already said, not a separate thing. If we do not want to have subcategories for substyles or subperiods within the 600-year history of Ottoman architecture (a reasonable option if it reduces further confusion), then we could delete the "Baroque mosques" and "Ottoman Baroque" categories altogether and move the mosques simply to :Category:Ottoman mosques (for example), if we agree on that. Otherwise, it's a reasonably clear category per the articles.

::* Re: #5: I literally just explained that they not all Ottoman Baroque buildings are mosques, so why keep only the category that excludes relevant examples?

::*Either way, the solution is not :Category:Baroque architecture in the Ottoman Empire as is. R Prazeres (talk) 19:51, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

::::Please learn our practices. These are not people. No matter that some literature calls it "Ottoman Baroque" as a shorthand, that usage means Ottoman Empire, not Ottoman Turks people nor Ottoman (furniture). We have naming conventions and many other guidelines that specify Wikipedia:Categorization of people by nationality demonym as a prefix, and by country "the Ottoman Empire" as a suffix. :Category:Baroque architecture in the Ottoman Empire is long standing. Stop making categories that do not follow the guidelines. Enough said.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 23:02, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

:::::You've obfuscated this question beyond recognition. This is about an architectural style, it has nothing to do with WP:PEOPLECAT, nor is this a country category. It doesn't matter where the term "Ottoman" is coming from, it's simply a label in line with common and published terminology on the topic. "Baroque architecture" on its own is absolutely not. "Some literature", as you insultingly dismiss it, is the majority of relevant scholarly literature on the topic, it's literally what Wikipedia is supposed to follow per WP:RELIABLE and WP:COMMONNAME. Your personal interpretations of these art history terms, whatever they are, are irrelevant by comparison. I see nothing in WP:CATNAME that argues in favour of this unclear point you're making, and you're requesting that we instead ignore fundamental content policies for some tenuous status quo argument. R Prazeres (talk) 00:05, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

• A question - are all Baroque mosques within the former Ottoman Empire, or are there also mosques in this style beyond its boundaries (e.g., in Morocco, Oman, or Iran)? If the latter, then the proposed new category might be better as a subcategory of the current category. Grutness...wha? 12:21, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

:*They are all mosques built within the Ottoman Empire, yes, as reflected in the current contents. There is no such thing as "Baroque mosques" in general, in reliable sources, unless as a shorthand for Ottoman Baroque. R Prazeres (talk) 14:52, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

• Warning — articles are being recategorized from their proper locations as a stealth renaming from :Category:Baroque architecture in the Ottoman Empire.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 23:37, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
• :What "stealth renaming" are you referring to? R Prazeres (talk) 00:07, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
• Delete one of them, the only difference between the two categories is the article Mihrişah Sultan Complex which is already linked to directly from Ottoman Baroque architecture. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:34, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
• :Or more relevantly the difference is the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit, which is just a traditional European Baroque building constructed in the Ottoman empire. All the others are specifically the Ottoman Baroque style or more generally the Ottoman style; per the sources and the articles. R Prazeres (talk) 07:11, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

::In fact, as I mentioned already there are other buildings which would be properly categorized as Ottoman Baroque, per the main article and its sources, but are not currently in any of the categories discussed here. From a quick survey: Büyük Yeni Han, Tomb of Abdul Hamid I, İzzet Mehmet Pasha Mosque, Hacı Beşir Ağa Mosque, and possibly Hatice Sultan Mansion, in addition to other monuments which do not yet have their own articles. R Prazeres (talk) 07:29, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

• Delete one of them per Marcocapelle and WP:OVERLAPCAT. :Category:Ottoman Baroque architecture is the one nominated, so I'm fine with that one going away. - RevelationDirect (talk) 20:20, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:28, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:50, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

:@Marcocapelle, @RevelationDirect, and rename Baroque mosques? — Qwerfjkltalk 21:55, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

:* The rename makes sense, it will clearly keep the content in the Ottoman Empire tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:59, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

:* That rename works for me. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:31, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Burned theaters :Category:Burned theatres in line with parent; no consensus to delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 21:58, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Theatres that have burned down to :Category:Theatres destroyed by fire

:Nominator's rationale: Seems like an oddly titled category. Given that other similar categories (e.g., {{cl|Buildings and structures destroyed by tornado}}, {{cl|Buildings and structures destroyed by flooding}}) use the proposed form, it would make sense for this to follow suit. Grutness...wha? 02:03, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

• Delete and sort into existing categories — Under :Category:Building and structure fires, :Category:Theatre fires, and :Category:Burned buildings and structures plus sub-:Category:Buildings and structures destroyed by arson are well established. It was decided long ago that arson is defining, but general fires are too common.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:52, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
• Rename if Kept WAS's point about the competing categories may be right but I'm not sure; the proposed rename is surely superior if kept. - RevelationDirect (talk) 20:30, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:29, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:49, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

• If kept, rename to :Category:Burned theaters :Category:Burned theatres aligning with parent :Category:Burned buildings and structures. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:25, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete Timrollpickering (talk) 21:29, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Storm articles needing translation}}

:Nominator's rationale: Very rarely populated. Articles about weather events are generally placed under "History articles needing translation from ___ Wikipedia" instead. Numberguy6 (talk) 18:31, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

• Delete, a very narrow topic for this purpose. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:59, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
• Delete — does not appear to be populated by template.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:14, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Delete Timrollpickering (talk) 14:10, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Indigenouism Artists}}

:Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT for just three people, whose head article was deleted last year per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Indigenouism as an original research attempt to advance a novel thesis invented by the article's creator rather than a recognized or established genre of art. So clearly this can't be a defining characteristic of these people, if it isn't one that reliable sources would ascribe them with. And even if there were a basis for keeping it, it would have to be renamed "Indigenouism artists" for accordance with Wikipedia's naming conventions anyway. Bearcat (talk) 17:52, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

• Comment, if nom is correct the articles in this category should be edited too, in order to remove Indigenouism artist from the body text. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:03, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
• {{done}} as this term was not verified from the extant English-language citation. – Fayenatic London 22:59, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
• Delete — WP:NOR inverse WP:C2D: deleted main article.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:17, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
• Delete as above. – Fayenatic London 22:59, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Rename Timrollpickering (talk) 21:30, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Alabama by city to :Category:Museums in Alabama by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Alaska by city to :Category:Museums in Alaska by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Arizona by city to :Category:Museums in Arizona by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Arkansas by city to :Category:Museums in Arkansas by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in California by city to :Category:Museums in California by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Colorado by city to :Category:Museums in Colorado by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Connecticut by city to :Category:Museums in Connecticut by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Delaware by city to :Category:Museums in Delaware by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Florida by city to :Category:Museums in Florida by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Georgia (U.S. state) by city to :Category:Museums in Georgia (U.S. state) by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Hawaii by city to :Category:Museums in Hawaii by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Idaho by city to :Category:Museums in Idaho by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Illinois by city to :Category:Museums in Illinois by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Indiana by city to :Category:Museums in Indiana by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Iowa by city to :Category:Museums in Iowa by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Kansas by city to :Category:Museums in Kansas by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Kentucky by city to :Category:Museums in Kentucky by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Louisiana by city to :Category:Museums in Louisiana by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Maine by city to :Category:Museums in Maine by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Maryland by city to :Category:Museums in Maryland by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Massachusetts by city to :Category:Museums in Massachusetts by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Michigan by city to :Category:Museums in Michigan by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Minnesota by city to :Category:Museums in Minnesota by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Mississippi by city to :Category:Museums in Mississippi by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Missouri by city to :Category:Museums in Missouri by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Montana by city to :Category:Museums in Montana by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Nebraska by city to :Category:Museums in Nebraska by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Nevada by city to :Category:Museums in Nevada by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in New Hampshire by city to :Category:Museums in New Hampshire by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in New Jersey by city to :Category:Museums in New Jersey by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in New Mexico by city to :Category:Museums in New Mexico by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in New York (state) by city to :Category:Museums in New York (state) by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in North Carolina by city to :Category:Museums in North Carolina by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in North Dakota by city to :Category:Museums in North Dakota by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Ohio by city to :Category:Museums in Ohio by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Oklahoma by city to :Category:Museums in Oklahoma by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Oregon by city to :Category:Museums in Oregon by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Pennsylvania by city to :Category:Museums in Pennsylvania by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Rhode Island by city to :Category:Museums in Rhode Island by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in South Carolina by city to :Category:Museums in South Carolina by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Tennessee by city to :Category:Museums in Tennessee by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Texas by city to :Category:Museums in Texas by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Utah by city to :Category:Museums in Utah by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Vermont by city to :Category:Museums in Vermont by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Virginia by city to :Category:Museums in Virginia by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Washington (state) by city to :Category:Museums in Washington (state) by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in West Virginia by city to :Category:Museums in West Virginia by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Wisconsin by city to :Category:Museums in Wisconsin by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Museums in Wyoming by city to :Category:Museums in Wyoming by populated place

:Relevant history:

:* :Category:Buildings and structures in the United States by state and city renamed to :Category:Buildings and structures in the United States by state and populated place along with all state sub-cats.

:::Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 15#Category:Buildings and structures in the United States by state and city

:* :Category:Museums in the United States by city is listed here

:Nominator's rationale: It only makes sense to replace city with populated place as "city" is not representative of the categories within. And it's counterintuitive to make an additional tree for towns/townships as well since it would worsen navigation. This also allows for existing split trees to be merged into a common branch to improve navigation. A museum or any building or any organization is not defined based on whether the place has city or town status. –Aidan721 (talk) 15:54, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

• Comment - This is not a vote, and not really rooted in any kinda of WP policy, but I hate the term "populated place" as it's used here. fuzzy510 (talk) 04:02, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

:*WP:IDLI. Fortunately, you weren't participating when this decision was discussed long ago, nor the USGS where this term was published.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:26, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

• Comment -- With the widespread use of city for quite small places in US, I do not think it is necessary to make a change, but I am not voting as I do not really know. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:55, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
• There are places in these categories that are legally not recognized as a city and do not belong. –Aidan721 (talk) 19:05, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
• Comment - This is not a vote, and not really rooted in any kinda of WP policy, but I hate the term "populated place" as it's used here. fuzzy510 (talk) 04:02, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

:*WP:IDLI duplicate
William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:26, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

• Support — Wikipedia:Category names lengthy discussions.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:26, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Rename/merge Timrollpickering (talk) 21:29, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Old English personal names to :Category:Old English given names

:* Propose merging :Category:Given names of Anglo-Saxon origin to :Category:Old English given names

:* Propose renaming :Category:Surnames of Anglo-Saxon origin to :Category:Surnames of Old English origin

:Nominator's rationale: For consistency with parents categories. The second and third categories here were tagged by {{user|PotterPayper}} without starting a discussion, but in related edit summaries he stated "Old English" is the name of the Wikipedia article for the language, "Anglo-Saxon" more commonly refers to the culture in England during the Dark Ages, though as a term it's become contentious among scholars. – Fayenatic London 09:35, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:39, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
• Support separating evolving language from immigrant origin. Hoping that will assist in pruning.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:32, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename to "historic places". (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 22:01, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:New Zealand Historic Places Trust Category I listings to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings :Category:Heritage New Zealand category 1 historic places :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 historic places

{{Collapse top|not tagged}}

:* Propose renaming :Category:New Zealand Historic Places Trust Category I listings by region to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings by region

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in the Auckland Region to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in the Auckland Region

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in the Bay of Plenty Region to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in the Auckland Region

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in Canterbury, New Zealand to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in Canterbury, New Zealand

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in the Gisborne District to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in the Gisborne District

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in the Hawke's Bay Region to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in the Hawke's Bay Region

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in Manawatū-Whanganui‎ to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in Manawatū-Whanganui‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in the Marlborough Region‎ to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in the Marlborough Region‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in the Nelson Region to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in the Nelson Region

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in the Northland Region to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in the Northland Region

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in Otago to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in Otago

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in Southland, New Zealand to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in Southland, New Zealand

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in Taranaki to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in Taranaki

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in the Tasman Region to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in the Tasman Region

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in Waikato to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in Waikato

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in the Wellington Region to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in the Wellington Region

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category I listings in the West Coast, New Zealand to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 1 listings in the West Coast, New Zealand

:* Propose renaming :Category:New Zealand Historic Places Trust Category II listings to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 2 listings

:* Propose renaming :Category:New Zealand Historic Places Trust Category II listings by region to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 2 listings by region

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category II listings in the Auckland Region to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 2 listings in the Auckland Region

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category II listings in the Bay of Plenty Region to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 2 listings in the Auckland Region

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category II listings in Canterbury, New Zealand to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 2 listings in Canterbury, New Zealand

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category II listings in the Gisborne District to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 2 listings in the Gisborne District

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category II listings in Manawatū-Whanganui‎ to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 2 listings in Manawatū-Whanganui‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category II listings in the Nelson Region to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 2 listings in the Nelson Region

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category II listings in the Northland Region to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 2 listings in the Northland Region

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category II listings in Otago to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 2 listings in Otago

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category II listings in Waikato to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 2 listings in Waikato

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category II listings in the Wellington Region to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 2 listings in the Wellington Region

:* Propose renaming :Category:NZHPT Category II listings in the West Coast, New Zealand to :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category 2 listings in the West Coast, New Zealand

{{Collapse bottom}}

:Nominator's rationale: In doing a GA review of Evans Bay Patent Slip, it came to my attention that Heritage New Zealand (also renamed!) now uses Arabic numerals instead of Roman numerals for its categories. This is not my topic area, so I am unfamiliar with the recency of change, but I do believe a rename discussion is warranted.

:These same two changes will need to apply to :Category:New Zealand Historic Places Trust Category I listings by region and all of its subcategories as well as :Category:New Zealand Historic Places Trust Category II listings (Category 2), :Category:New Zealand Historic Places Trust Category II listings by region and all of its subcategories. I will more properly tag in the morning if someone else does not. Outside of renamed categories, there would also need to be adjustments for relevant entries called by Template:Infobox designation list.

:Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 07:55, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

• Before worrying about the Roman vs Arabic numeral issue, the first thing that needs to happen is that this entire category tree is speedily renamed to reflect the fact that the name of the organisation, New Zealand Historic Places Trust, was changed to Heritage New Zealand in 2014 and is now the entity's common name. This would bring the category tree in line with the parent article, Heritage New Zealand. The various listings categories should become :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category I historic places, :Category:Heritage New Zealand Category II historic places by region, etc., or the Arabic numeral equivalents. Paora (talk) 11:16, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

::Indeed; I'm with Paora on this one. I set up the category tree initially and at that time, it reflected what was in place then. But things have moved on and if we are making any changes, we might as well do it properly. Schwede66 22:59, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

:::Support this as part of the rename. Again, not my field. Editing the CfD to reflect. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:00, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

::::I have added to this list (but not immediately tagged) the other Category categories. I have also designated another 20 categories in the NZHPT category tree for speedy renaming, including the parents of all of these. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 05:44, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose as proposed. No problem with changing NZHPT to Heritage New Zealand and changing the Roman numerals to Arabic, but would prefer to see the word listings in the above proposed category names altered to historic places, to align with Heritage New Zealand's terminology, and to more clearly distinguish from historic areas and wāhi tapu. Paora (talk) 11:43, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
• Rename to :Category:Heritage New Zealand category 1 historic places – WP:C2C and WP:C2D to match parent :Category:Heritage New Zealand, change to Arabic numerals, Historic Places Act 1993.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:42, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
• Procedural issue: Only one tagged. The others will need to be re-nominated and tagged after conclusion here. Also, related speedy will need to be re-nominated and tagged.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:42, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
• {{ping|Sammi Brie|Paora|Schwede66}} Please modify your !votes in the same form as mine to demonstrate consensus. Then a bulk nomination for the untagged categories can be done after closing. This will waste less time.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:56, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
• Rename to :Category:Heritage New Zealand category 1 historic places etc as argued by Paora to reflect the name of the organisation, their terminology, and their use of Arabic numerals. Schwede66 07:47, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
• Rename to :Category:Heritage New Zealand category 1 historic places to reflect the name of the organisation, their terminology, and their use of Arabic numerals. Paora (talk) 10:04, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
• Rename to :Category:Heritage New Zealand category 1 historic places et al. I will defer to Paora's proposed naming as I was unaware of additional issues this nomination raised about the naming structure—I spotted one and didn't see there were three. My apologies for not getting to this the way I wanted to, but at this point I think the remaining items can be speedied per consensus here once this is done, which is preferable to slogging through a multi-CfD. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 19:55, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

:*Speedy is only for uncontested. So many related were contested, they have to be done here. Once losing there, cannot do it over again. Don't worry, I've done the multi-nomination, although it took more than 4 hours!
William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:41, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

• Rename as above. Can we get category redirects from the old names as well? Stuartyeates (talk) 09:05, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

:*No, category redirects are an automated process for common names that passing editors might accidentally use. These names are so complicated and specific that it is better they are replaced entirely.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:19, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete Timrollpickering (talk) 21:27, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Del E. Webb buildings}}

:Nominator's rationale: Appears to have been created by a COI/U. This essentially amounts to a client list. Graywalls (talk) 06:57, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

• Delete — already listified on the article page, these are not :Category:Buildings and structures by company, these are projects by former construction firm. Some are quite historic and substantial, such as a decommissioned Air Force base.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:12, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename Timrollpickering (talk) 21:26, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:HC2 Holdings to :Category:Innovate Corp.

:Nominator's rationale: Speedy rename: Consistency with main article's name Mvcg66b3r (talk) 01:21, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

• Speedy rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:08, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Withdrawn. (non-admin closure) William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:12, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Philosophy of Aristotle to :Category:Aristotelianism

:Nominator's rationale: This is not a WP:DEFINING characteristic - all of aristotle's philosophy is referred to as both "the philosophy of aristotle" and "aristotelianism" interchangeably. All of aristotle's philosophy is also studied by philosophers regardless of this distinction - the subjects mentioned in the lead are either philosophical disciplines (logic) or studied by philosophical disciplines (biology and physics by philosophy of science, justice by ethics) - car chasm (talk) 00:22, 25 January 2023 (UTC) withdrawn per Marcocapelle

• Oppose, the target is about Aristotelianism after Aristotle, that is an important distinction. A discussion about the names of the two categories could be useful though, the names are currently not distinct enough. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:57, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
• :Gotcha, I'll withdraw it and update the category descriptions to be more clear. - car chasm (talk) 07:03, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.