Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 31#Buildings by family

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: Rename to :Category:Stanford University campus and add :Category:University and college campuses in California as a parent category. - jc37 08:06, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Stanford University places to :Category:Stanford University buildings and structures

:Nominator's rationale: "Places" is vague and not used elsewhere on Wikipedia. User:Namiba 20:48, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

::The main issue is some of the items aren't "buildings and structures" for example a lake, a creek, arboretum, garden so what category or categories should they go under? Erp (talk) 21:35, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

• Split between :Category:Stanford University buildings and structures (for buildings and structures) and :Category:Stanford University (for everything else). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:56, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Rename to :Category:Stanford University campus and add :Category:University and college campuses in California as a parent category. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:01, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

:* That may also be a good solution. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:11, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

::* We also have {{cl|University and college buildings and structures in California}}. Unsure whether we need both of these categories.--User:Namiba 12:28, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

:::* Let's wait and see if the campus categories can be populated with much else than buildings and structures. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:53, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

• Rename to :Category:Stanford University campus and parent per RevelationDirect.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:07, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. – Fayenatic London 20:38, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting :Category:Baseball in Australia by year

:* Propose merging :Category:1989 in Australian baseball to :Category:1989 in Australian sport and :Category:1989 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:1990 in Australian baseball to :Category:1990 in Australian sport and :Category:1990 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:1991 in Australian baseball to :Category:1991 in Australian sport and :Category:1991 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:1992 in Australian baseball to :Category:1992 in Australian sport and :Category:1992 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:1993 in Australian baseball to :Category:1993 in Australian sport and :Category:1993 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:1994 in Australian baseball to :Category:1994 in Australian sport and :Category:1994 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:1995 in Australian baseball to :Category:1995 in Australian sport and :Category:1995 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:1996 in Australian baseball to :Category:1996 in Australian sport and :Category:1996 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:1997 in Australian baseball to :Category:1997 in Australian sport and :Category:1997 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:1998 in Australian baseball to :Category:1998 in Australian sport and :Category:1998 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:1999 in Australian baseball to :Category:1999 in Australian sport and :Category:1999 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2000 in Australian baseball to :Category:2000 in Australian sport and :Category:2000 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2001 in Australian baseball to :Category:2001 in Australian sport and :Category:2001 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2002 in Australian baseball to :Category:2002 in Australian sport and :Category:2002 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2003 in Australian baseball to :Category:2003 in Australian sport and :Category:2003 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2005 in Australian baseball to :Category:2005 in Australian sport and :Category:2005 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2006 in Australian baseball to :Category:2006 in Australian sport and :Category:2006 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2007 in Australian baseball to :Category:2007 in Australian sport and :Category:2007 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2008 in Australian baseball to :Category:2008 in Australian sport and :Category:2008 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2009 in Australian baseball to :Category:2009 in Australian sport and :Category:2009 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2010 in Australian baseball to :Category:2010 in Australian sport and :Category:2010 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2011 in Australian baseball to :Category:2011 in Australian sport and :Category:2011 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2012 in Australian baseball to :Category:2012 in Australian sport and :Category:2012 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2013 in Australian baseball to :Category:2013 in Australian sport and :Category:2013 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2014 in Australian baseball to :Category:2014 in Australian sport and :Category:2014 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2015 in Australian baseball to :Category:2015 in Australian sport and :Category:2015 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2016 in Australian baseball to :Category:2016 in Australian sport and :Category:2016 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2017 in Australian baseball to :Category:2017 in Australian sport and :Category:2017 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2018 in Australian baseball to :Category:2018 in Australian sport and :Category:2018 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2019 in Australian baseball to :Category:2019 in Australian sport and :Category:2019 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2020 in Australian baseball to :Category:2020 in Australian sport and :Category:2020 in baseball

:* Propose merging :Category:2021 in Australian baseball to :Category:2021 in Australian sport and :Category:2021 in baseball

:Nominator's rationale: All categories contain just the two season categories that overlap with that year. Merge to YYYY in Australian sport and YYYY in baseball. Not enough content per year to warrant a separate category. –Aidan721 (talk) 20:33, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:58, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Merge
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:09, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: No consensus Timrollpickering (talk) 13:25, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting :Category:People by millennium

:* Propose deleting :Category:Deaths by millennium

:* Propose deleting :Category: Egyptian people by millennium

:* Propose deleting :Category: European people by millennium

:* Propose deleting :Category: Women by millennium

:* Propose merging :Category: 7th-millennium BC people to :Category: 7th millennium BC (1 article)

:* Propose merging :Category: 6th-millennium BC people to :Category: 6th millennium BC (1 article)

:* Propose deleting :Category: 4th-millennium BC people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 4th-millennium BC women

:* Propose deleting :Category: 4th-millennium BC deaths

:* Propose deleting :Category: 4th-millennium BC Egyptian people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 3rd-millennium BC people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 3rd-millennium BC women

:* Propose deleting :Category: 3rd millennium BC Indian

:* Propose deleting :Category: 3rd-millennium BC Hindus

:* Propose deleting :Category: 3rd-millennium BC births

:* Propose deleting :Category: 3rd-millennium BC deaths

:* Propose deleting :Category: 3rd-millennium BC Egyptian people

{{cot|more categories nominated}}

:* Propose deleting :Category: 2nd-millennium BC people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 2nd-millennium BC women

:* Propose deleting :Category: 2nd-millennium BC Egyptian people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 1st-millennium BC people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 1st-millennium BC women

:* Propose deleting :Category: 1st-millennium BC Egyptian people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 1st-millennium BC European people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 1st-millennium people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 1st-millennium women

:* Propose deleting :Category: 1st-millennium Egyptian people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 1st-millennium European people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 2nd-millennium people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 2nd-millennium women

:* Propose deleting :Category: 2nd-millennium Egyptian people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 2nd-millennium European people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 3rd-millennium people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 3rd-millennium women

:* Propose deleting :Category: 3rd-millennium Egyptian people

:* Propose deleting :Category: 3rd-millennium European people

{{cob}}

:Nominator's rationale: delete/merge, redundant category layer for historical people who can be categorized by century, and there are too few articles about prehistoric individual people to keep separate categories. This is follow-up on this earlier nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:04, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

: {{ping|Nederlandse Leeuw|Fayenatic london|Dimadick|Peterkingiron|William Allen Simpson|Laurel Lodged}} pinging contributors to previous discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:12, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

• Keep Not redundant, it helps group centuries together. Dimadick (talk) 20:14, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
• Keep, useful for navigation between events and people. Also allows chronological parenting of e.g. :Category:Hebrew Bible judges. – Fayenatic London 22:27, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
• Strong delete per nom, WP:NONDEF, precedents such as Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_March_4#Rulers_by_millennium, where William Allen Simpson said {{tq|Millennium categories serve no useful purpose}}, and per WP:V (especially for pre-500 BCE people it's difficult to determine when they lived, if they even lived at all and weren't just literary inventions, see my arguments at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_March_6#Category:Biblical_rulers_by_century). Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:34, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Strong keep - this is a well-implemented subcat scheme complementing the 'by century' scheme and deleting it serves no point whatever. It is particularly perverse to delete :Category:Deaths by millennium but not :Category:1st-millennium BC deaths. Further, just pinging previous cfd contributors would appear to be reinforcing any previous bias. Have contributors to previous cfds which reached a different conclusion been pinged? Have people who created/edited/populated these categories been pinged? Oculi (talk) 01:01, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Keep: Where else would Barum woman be categorised except in :Category:7th-millennium BC people? (Actually, one answer is that she should be in the non-diffusing subcategory :Category:7th-millennium BC women, which ought to be created). These categories are a logical part of the hierarchy of people by date. PamD 12:14, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Strong delete — WP:SMALLCAT. No technical need to group centuries together, as there are only 10 per millennium. Most of these are poorly populated. There should never be events in a people category. There is no need for scattering individual people in archaelogical categories across millennia, especially where they hypothetically cross millennial boundaries. Therefore, useless categories that do not aid navigation.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 04:44, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Surnames of South Asian origin. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:04, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Surnames of Southern Asian origin to :Category:Surnames of South Asian origin

:Nominator's rationale: Southern Asian and South Asian refer to the same region of origin; and South Asian is the more common term. Zhen Zhen (talk) 18:38, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:00, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Merge
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:12, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:04, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Kvitka Cisyk}}

:Nominator's rationale: Lacks content required per WP:OCEPON to warrant eponymous category. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 18:31, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

:* Keep, just added two more subcategories {{lc|Kvitka Cisyk songs}} and {{lc|Kvitka Cisyk soundtracks}}. Now {{lc|Kvitka Cisyk}} contains one article and three categories with 5 articles. --Perohanych (talk) 21:27, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

• Delete, as usual, the songs and albums categories are linked to each other directly and the soundtracks category only contains a redirect. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:03, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Delete for Now with no objection to recreating if it ever gets up to 5+ direct articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:52, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
• Delete — currently 2 subncategories, and they all are WP:SMALLCAT as well.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:14, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:DC Animated Universe characters and :Category:Static Shock. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:05, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Static Shock characters to :Category:DC Animated Universe characters and :Category:Static Shock

:Nominator's rationale: SMALLCAT. ★Trekker (talk) 17:51, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

• Merge, which presumably is what nominator meant too. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:05, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Yes my bad I must have clicked the wrong option.★Trekker (talk) 15:49, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support merge per nom --Lenticel ^(talk) 23:20, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
• Merge
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:15, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. ✗plicit 02:21, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

: Propose renaming

:* :Category: Buildings and structures associated with the Adeler family to :Category: Buildings and structures of the Adeler family

:* :Category: Buildings and structures associated with the Ahlefeldt family to :Category: Buildings and structures of the Ahlefeldt family

:* :Category: Buildings and structures associated with the Banner family to :Category: Buildings and structures of the Banner family

:* :Category: Buildings and structures associated with the Bartholin family to :Category: Buildings and structures of the Bartholin family

:* :Category: Buildings and structures associated with the Bille family to :Category: Buildings and structures of the Bille family

:Nominator's rationale: rename per WP:WEASEL, WP:OCASSOC. This is follow-up on this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:46, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

• Delete WP:OCASSOC doesn't get any more clear than this. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:08, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

:* I do not think deletion is the right course of action. WP:OCASSOC implicitly assumes that mere association is not defining, but in contrast here the relationship is defining. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:14, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

:::Support Took a 2nd look. This makes the (defining) relationship clearer. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:53, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom The new names make the connection clearer. Dimadick (talk) 16:51, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support WP:C2C as previously decided.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:17, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Rename Timrollpickering (talk) 13:25, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:L-type stars to :Category:L-type brown dwarfs

:Nominator's rationale: Calling brown dwarfs "stars" is not semantically accurate, considering that they're classified separately from stars for their lack of hydrogen fusion. There is only one instance of a proper star that's considered spectral class L (V838 Monocerotis), but that's only an unusual circumstance. The M-class spectral type has two categories for :Category:M-type stars and :Category:M-type brown dwarfs, so the L-class spectral type should be split similarly to accommodate these two types of objects. Nrco0e (talk) 16:40, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

• Support: L-type stars are sometimes used to refer to slow irregular variables, so a name change is probably appropriate. Praemonitus (talk) 04:40, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support per above: the name change is appropriate. Just a note that 2MASS J0523−1403 (full article) and SSSPM J0829-1309 (redirect) are considered to be L-type stars that are fusing hydrogen. InterstellarGamer12321 (talk | contribs) 11:07, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• :I think that we should rename the general category but keep the L-type stars category for these low-mass red dwarfs and V838 Monocerotis. InterstellarGamer12321 (talk | contribs) 11:13, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:36, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Rename Timrollpickering (talk) 09:46, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:T-type stars to :Category:T-type brown dwarfs

:Nominator's rationale: Calling brown dwarfs "stars" is not semantically accurate, considering that they're classified separately from stars for their lack of hydrogen fusion. Nrco0e (talk) 16:40, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

• Support the change: all T-type objects are brown dwarfs and not stars so this name change is appropriate. InterstellarGamer12321 (talk | contribs) 11:11, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:35, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Rename Timrollpickering (talk) 09:45, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Y-type stars to :Category:Y-type brown dwarfs

:Nominator's rationale: Calling brown dwarfs "stars" is not semantically accurate, considering that they're classified separately from stars for their lack of hydrogen fusion. Furthermore, calling Y-type brown dwarfs "stars" is even less accurate considering that they straddle the mass line between planets and brown dwarfs. Nrco0e (talk) 16:40, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

• Rename all per nom. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 03:44, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support the change: all Y-type objects are brown dwarfs and not stars so this name change is appropriate. InterstellarGamer12321 (talk | contribs) 11:11, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:34, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:19, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Women's Twenty20 cricket international competitions. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:06, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:ACC Women's Twenty20 Championship to :Category:Women's Twenty20 cricket international competitions

:Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT, only 3 articles, and the 2013 event wasn't a Twenty20 tournament, so shouldn't be in this category, leaving only 2 valid articles (and no evidence that this tournament will be run on multiple future occasions to generate enough articles for a separate category) Joseph2302 (talk) 16:32, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:07, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Merge Per nom. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:18, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Delete Timrollpickering (talk) 09:47, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Cricket at the Asian Games – Women's tournament to :Category:Cricket at the Asian Games

:Nominator's rationale: No need for a separate category for the women's tournaments at this games. Whilst there are separate, short article about the women's events in 2010, 2014 and 2022/2023, there's no reason why these couldn't be in the parent category Joseph2302 (talk) 16:29, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

• Delete. Templates do not belong in mainspace categories. –Aidan721 (talk) 23:01, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
• Comment This category has been emptied. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:01, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

:*I didn't empty it, for the benefit of others, it contained the 3 articles linked in my nom. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:46, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

:::I didn't say that you had emptied it, Joseph2302, according to the script I used, it only held a template that was removed by another editor. Of course, the script doesn't indicate any contents that have been deleted so the category might have held other pages that have since been deleted. But it's empty now. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:41, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

• Delete in absence of articles Category has been emptied. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:19, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Shouldn't the three articles also be added to :Category:Women's international cricket competitions? Marcocapelle (talk) 10:46, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• I have added two articles and a redirect into :Category:Women's Twenty20 cricket international competitions. – Fayenatic London 22:31, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Test cricket competitions. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:07, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Asian Test Championship to :Category:Test cricket competitions

:Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT, only 2 instances of this tournament ever, meaning there will never be more than 3 articles in this category. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:25, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:09, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• Merge
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:22, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Businesspeople from Gujarat. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:07, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Businessman from Gujarat to :Category:Businesspeople from Gujarat

:Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:OCEGRS, male businesspeople from Gujarat are not a notable topic in their own right. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:11, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

• Support merge - if kept it should be renamed to :Category:Businessmen from Gujarat (but there is no :Category:Businessmen, as opposed to :Category:Businesswomen). Oculi (talk) 10:31, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
• Merge
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:33, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. bibliomaniac15 00:08, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Children of Julius Caesar to :Category:Family of Julius Caesar

:Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, only three children. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:56, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

• Keep 3 is generally seen as acceptable for wives and children categories of notable persons. Pretty standard. And in this case two of the items have their own categories which are included.★Trekker (talk) 11:13, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

:* I rather perceive "Family" to be the standard and would only create "Children" in case of a large number of children. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:44, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

::*I disagree. I have been responsible for creating many of the first hundred (or so) "Family of", "Children of" and "Wives of" categories as well as subsequent category trees and it has always been standard to keep "Children of" and "Wives of" separate if there are at least three items (and in this case there are the sub-categories as well) I have been involved in several of these deletion discussions before and I stand by the consensus of those that three is enough.★Trekker (talk) 17:58, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

:::* If you were to up that to 5, I doubt there would be any further controversy going forward over WP:SMALLCAT. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:15, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

:::*Please cite the consensus discussions. I've never been in favor of 3.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:49, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

• Weak keep 3 is large enough, upmerging would also be acceptable. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:58, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
• Keep I agree with StarTrekker. This is a sufficiently large category. Dimadick (talk) 20:16, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
• Keep {{Tq|unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme}}. As :Category:Children of national leaders exists, I think "Children of Julius Caesar" qualifies as part of such a scheme. Walt Yoder (talk) 21:03, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
• :That cat is currently being CfR'd so I would be careful invoking it. Marco has argued for removing Julius Caesar from it. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:37, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

::* That is, if the rename of the category goes ahead. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:12, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

• Merge While I favor 5, 3 might be enough. But here only 1 of the 3--Julia (daughter of Caesar)--seems clearly define by the relationship. (The other 2 are obviously defined by royal inheritance, just not JC per se.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:12, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
• I respectfully disagree, being Caesar's adoptive son is the only reason Augustus was able to become a powerful player in the politics of the late Roman Republic. And the weight of Caesarions relationship to the dictator can be seen in something as obvious as his very name, his ancestry was hugely important to his mother's and step-father's politics his entire life.★Trekker (talk) 10:11, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
• Merge — 3 is never enough. The small tradition is 5, and arguably should be 10. There are far too much of this Wives and Children fragmentation.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:49, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
• Merge all to "family of X". I don't think we should be splitting these families up unless there is great need... - jc37 08:12, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.