Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 10#Category:Bohemian rabbis

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 02:00, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Mexico Songs number-one singles}}

:Nominator's rationale: This is one of many international charts Billboard created within the last couple of years as part of its Hits of the World charts but none of the songs are defined by reaching number one on it. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 19:59, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:22, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 20:16, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Koryo-saram to :Category:Koryo-saram people

:Nominator's rationale: Changing category scope to be more standard. Currently contains both people and societal elements (cuisine, culture, etc). Making this specifically about people then moving the rest into a category I just made, {{Cl|Koryo-saram society}}. Let me know if I shouldn't do this, but I think it's the right move; seems to be done for like {{Cl|African-American society}} toobigtokale (talk) 19:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support a clearly designated people subcategory. Thereafter :Category:Koryo-saram society can be renamed to :Category:Koryo-saram, adding "society" seems rather redundant. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:24, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
• :The paradigm I based it on was {{Cl|African-American society}}. I think what's tricky is that "Koryo-saram" means literally "Korean person", so if we call it just "Koryo-saram" people may use it as a people category. toobigtokale (talk) 01:49, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
• :* Ok, understood. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:45, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename "Foo Bohemian bar" to "Foo bar from Bohemia". (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 02:02, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:10th-century Bohemian people to :Category:10th-century people from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:10th-century Bohemian women to :Category:10th-century women from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:11th-century Bohemian people to :Category:11th-century people from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:11th-century Bohemian women to :Category:11th-century women from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:12th-century Bohemian people to :Category:12th-century people from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:12th-century Bohemian women to :Category:12th-century women from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:13th-century Bohemian clergy to :Category:13th-century clergy from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:13th-century Bohemian people to :Category:13th-century people from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:13th-century Bohemian women to :Category:13th-century women from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:14th-century Bohemian clergy to :Category:14th-century clergy from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:14th-century Bohemian people to :Category:14th-century people from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:14th-century Bohemian women to :Category:14th-century women from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:15th-century Bohemian clergy to :Category:15th-century clergy from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:15th-century Bohemian people to :Category:15th-century people from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:15th-century Bohemian women to :Category:15th-century women from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:16th-century Bohemian clergy to :Category:16th-century clergy from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:16th-century Bohemian people to :Category:16th-century people from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:16th-century Bohemian women to :Category:16th-century women from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:17th-century Bohemian clergy to :Category:17th-century clergy from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:17th-century Bohemian people to :Category:17th-century people from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:17th-century Bohemian women to :Category:17th-century women from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:18th-century Bohemian clergy to :Category:18th-century clergy from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:18th-century Bohemian people to :Category:18th-century people from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:18th-century Bohemian women to :Category:18th-century women from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:9th-century Bohemian people to :Category:9th-century people from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:Bohemian Jews to :Category:Jews from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:Bohemian Roman Catholic priests to :Category:Roman Catholic priests from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:Bohemian athletes to :Category:Athletes from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:Bohemian clergy to :Category:Clergy from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:Bohemian domestic workers to :Category:Domestic workers from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:Bohemian economists to :Category:Economists from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:Bohemian people by century to :Category:People from Bohemia by century

:* Propose renaming :Category:Bohemian rabbis to :Category:Rabbis from Bohemia

:* Propose renaming :Category:Bohemian women to :Category:Women from Bohemia

:Nominator's rationale: moving to full discussion because c2c was opposed. Recent consesnsus on Bohemian writers Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 11#Category:Bohemian writers. TLDR: Bohemian is ambiguous because of Bohemianism. Mason (talk) 19:57, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

{{cot|copy of speedy discussion}}

• :Category:Bohemian clergy to :Category:Clergy from Bohemia – C2C: People from Bohemia by occupation Mason (talk) 13:29, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
• :Category:Bohemian athletes to :Category:Athletes from Bohemia
• : Oppose speedy There is no clear convention for the proposed format in {{cat|People from Bohemia by occupation}}. (Only 3 of the 8 subcategories use that format.) Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 16:34, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
• :Comment. {{Ping|Armbrust}} See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 11#Category:Bohemian writers. TLDR: Bohemian is ambiguous because of Bohemianism Mason (talk) 18:17, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
• ::Moving to full discussion. I think it was fine under C2C, given the recent consensus. Mason (talk) 19:59, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

{{cob}}

• Pinging folks from speedy {{Ping|Armbrust}} and recent consensus participants {{Ping|Marcocapelle|Necrothesp|Nederlandse Leeuw| Johnbod}}.Mason (talk) 20:07, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support per earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:13, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support to remove ambiguity Hugo999 (talk) 22:31, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: split/rename/merge alt for American categories. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 20:24, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose splitting :Category:Fictional people by location and ethnic or national descent to :Category:Fictional people by populated place and :Category:Fictional people by country subdivision

:* Propose splitting :Category:Fictional American people by location to :Category:Fictional American people by country subdivision and :Category:Fictional people by city in the United States

:* Propose renaming :Category:Fictional British people by locality to :Category:Fictional British people by populated place

:* Propose renaming :Category:Fictional Canadian people by location to :Category:Fictional Canadian people by province or territory

:* Propose splitting :Category:Fictional Italian people by location to :Category:Fictional Italian people by region and :Category:Fictional Italian people by city

:* Propose renaming :Category:Fictional Japanese people by location to :Category:Fictional Japanese people by region

:* Propose renaming :Category:Fictional Mexican people by location to :Category:Fictional Mexican people by city

:Nominator's rationale: split, first remove "by ethnic or national descent" because that is completely redundant here; second split to "by country subdivision" and "by populated place" because those are quite different split criteria. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:55, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

::Support. per nom. Mason (talk) 19:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support except American categories, for which I suggest the alt proposal below, with the same spirit as above:
• :* Propose renaming {{Cl|Fictional people by state in the United States‎}} to {{Cl|Fictional people by state or territory in the United States‎}}
• :* Propose moving {{Cl|Fictional people by insular area of the United States‎}} to {{Cl|Fictional people by state or territory in the United States‎}}
• :* Propose merging {{Cl|Fictional people from the United States by county‎}} to {{Cl|Fictional characters from California}}
• :* Propose merging {{Cl|Fictional American people by location‎}} to {{Cl|Fictional American people}}
• : Alt rationale: Similar to {{Cl|Categories by state or territory of the United States}} and {{Cl|Fictional people by state or territory in Australia‎}}, there's no good reason to leave Washington D.C., Puerto Rico etc. out of the main United States diffusion category. Only two child categories for counties ({{C|Fictional characters from Los Angeles County, California}} and {{C|Fictional characters from Orange County, California}}), and no real reason to keep this level, as fictional characters primarily associated with American counties, rather than cities or states, are pretty rare. This would place the two remaining categories (by city and by state or territory) at the root of Fictional American people, as there is little need for an intermediate layer. Additional categories tagged. {{Re|Marcocapelle|Smasongarrison}} courtesy ping. Place Clichy (talk) 08:39, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

:* I am also fine with the alt proposal for the United States. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:47, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

:*:I'm equally fine with this alt. Mason (talk) 19:25, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Fictional humans (over the redirect). (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 02:03, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Fictional humans by type to :Category:Fictional humans

:Nominator's rationale: rename (over redirect), "by type" is quite meaningless here. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:52, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

::Support per nom. AHI-3000 (talk) 19:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

:::Support per nom. Very vague what type means Mason (talk) 18:54, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. both to :Category:Fictional characters by sexual orientation. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 18:53, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging {{Cl|Fictional gynosexuals}} to {{Cl|Fictional characters by sexual orientation}}

:* Propose merging {{Cl|Fictional androsexuals}} to {{Cl|Fictional characters by sexual orientation}}

: Nominator's rationale: these are containers of other categories by sexual orientation, for which there is no equivalent in non-fiction categories. I don't think that this overlapping intermediate layer brings much value, or that it has a meaning specific to fictional characters. Place Clichy (talk) 18:05, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:04, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Unnecessary overcategorization; intersection is not defining. Edward-Woodrow • talk 20:16, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Southern Baptist ministers. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 18:52, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Former Southern Baptist ministers}}

:Nominator's rationale: Per Wikipedia:Category names#Occupation: "Occupation categories should not be divided into "current" or "former" categories." There are all sort of reasons why someone might be a "former" minister - retirement, resignation, and of course, death - and this category lumps them all together. StAnselm (talk) 17:35, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

• Merge to :Category:Southern Baptist ministers rather than delete. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:45, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
• Merge to :Category:Southern Baptist ministers. We have plenty of former, even dead people in occupational categories, and former in category names in uselessly redundant. Place Clichy (talk) 18:07, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 18:51, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Fictional Eurasian people}}

:Nominator's rationale: This category mixes 2 incompatible meanings of the term Eurasian: being relative to the landmass of Eurasia, according to its description, and being of mixed European and Asian ancestry, as for the only actual article Aya Brea, a mixed Japanese-French comics character. (Note the irony that Japan is not in Eurasia.) Also, a very bad category loop shows that the creators' intent is not clear: {{C|Fictional Asian people|Fictional Asian}}/{{C|Fictional European people|European people}} => {{C|Fictional Eurasian people}} => {{C|Fictional Asian people|Fictional Asian}}/{{C|Fictional European people|European people}}. Also note relative Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 9#Category:Fictional Cimmerians. Place Clichy (talk) 16:01, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:26, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 22:27, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
• :Delete per nom. Mason (talk) 18:18, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:1900s establishments in Newfoundland. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 14:59, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:1906 establishments in Newfoundland and Labrador to :Category:1900s establishments in Newfoundland

:Nominator's rationale: Single-item WP:SMALLCAT at an anachronistic name. As always, navigation of Wikipedia is not aided by obsessively flattening everything down to the narrowest possible microcategories of one -- this would be fine if there were five things to file here, but if there's only one thing then it doesn't need to be catted any more narrowly than the decade. And for added bonus, the name is incorrect, as it was called "Newfoundland", not "Newfoundland and Labrador", in 1906. Bearcat (talk) 15:03, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

• Merge per nom, not enough content per year, which does not only apply to this particular year but likewise for the surrounding decades. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:30, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
• :Support per nom. Mason (talk) 20:13, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
• Merge per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 22:26, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Outlines. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 14:59, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Wikipedia outlines to :Category:Outlines

:Nominator's rationale: Content categories shouldn't begin with "Wikipedia" (this should only be used for Wikipedia administration). Fram (talk) 13:47, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

::I mean, we use :Category:Lists, not :Category:Wikipedia lists, for all mainspace lists. No reason why outlines should be treated differently. Fram (talk) 13:53, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

:Support - Outlines are main namespace articles, and therefore, they should be covered in regular categories. Note, that none of the subcategories of outlines have the "Wikipedia" prefix:

:: :Category:Outlines of culture and arts

:: :Category:Outlines of general reference

:: :Category:Outlines of mathematics and logic

:: :Category:Outlines of people

:: :Category:Outlines of geography and places

:: :Category:Outlines of health and fitness

:: :Category:Outlines of history and events

:: :Category:Outlines of society

:: :Category:Outlines of philosophy topics

:: :Category:Outlines of sciences

:: :Category:Outlines of technology and applied science

: It follows that their parent category's title should match.    — The Transhumanist   14:04, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

• There are pros and cons. Agree that WP:C2C applies. Agree that they are comparable with lists categories. But both outlines and lists are not real-life outlines and real-life lists. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:38, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
• But this isn't a problem for the names of the underlying pages (they are "Outline of ..." or "List of ...", not "Wikipedia outline of...", so why should it be acceptable there and an issue at category level? Fram (talk) 17:59, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
• :Support. per nom. Mason (talk) 03:48, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlaster^talk 14:57, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|TBJZL songs}}

:Nominator's rationale: A category of redirects that all just point to the artist's article. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 05:46, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:42, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: dual merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 20:29, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Screenwriters from the Russian Empire to :Category:Russian screenwriters

:Nominator's rationale: small cat, overlapping cat, where the intersection with regime isn't defining Mason (talk) 03:17, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

• Dual merge, also to :Category:Writers from the Russian Empire. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:28, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
• Dual merge – both categories are applicable. HouseBlaster^talk 02:06, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

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