Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 December 17

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: manual merge and delete.. – Fayenatic London 17:18, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Culture by genre}}

:* Propose manually merging :Category:Paris culture by genre to :Category:Culture of Paris

:Nominator's rationale: single entry category. I also may have some questions regarding its only subcategory QuantumFoam66 (talk) 23:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. And the subcat merged to :Category:Culture of Paris or the subcat's subcats merged to its subcats, like :Category:Arts in Paris. - jc37 00:18, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

:* (expanding the nomination) Propose manually merging :Category:Paris culture by genre to :Category:Culture of Paris per Jc37. It largely duplicates :Category:Arts in Paris. After this has been solved, parent :Category:Culture by genre will be empty. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:46, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

:*:In order to do this using XfDcloser, it has to be placed at the head of the nomination. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:Support all per Marcocapelle. This does not reflect correct usage of the word genre. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:26, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure). ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 10:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Olaf II of Norway to :Category:Saint Olaf

:Nominator's rationale: The corresponding article page was recently moved to Saint Olaf. Векочел (talk) 20:24, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Rename per WP:C2D though I wonder if this is the common name among historians. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:40, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure). ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 10:31, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Transport in Port Elizabeth to :Category:Transport in Gqeberha

:Nominator's rationale: To match with the parent category. GeographicAccountant (talk) 18:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Rename, also per article title. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure). ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 10:31, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Metropolitan routes in Port Elizabeth to :Category:Metropolitan routes in Gqeberha

:Nominator's rationale: To match with the parent category. GeographicAccountant (talk) 18:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Rename, also per article title. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic London 22:02, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Comics characters by series}}

:Nominator's rationale: I think I was going to nominate this one a while ago but never did, anyway this category currently contains only one page. It could perhaps be populated but I probably won't due an already existing similar category that is :Category:Comics characters by series QuantumFoam66 (talk) 18:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

::I did try to find more categories that belongs to a series.. SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 18:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

:::Yes, but since we already have :Category:Comics characters by series, I'm not sure you can allow this category to be kept. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 00:14, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

• Delete/UpMerge (recat the subcat) to :Category:Animated characters and :Category:Comics characters. Noting that :Category:Animated characters by series exists. However, the nominated cat only has one subcat as a member - :Category:Anime and manga characters. So just UpMerge. - jc37 00:18, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• Merge per Jc37. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:48, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• :* Just delete I already added the appropriate parent category to :Category:Anime and manga characters. There is nothing else to do here.
• :QuantumFoam66 (talk) 01:05, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge to :Category:Major League Baseball video games. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 05:58, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|The Bigs video games}}

:Nominator's rationale: There were only two games, it falls short of the threshold for a typical category. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom, but presumably merge to :Category:Major League Baseball video games. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:00, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: Merge or delete
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 14:32, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per Marcocapelle. - jc37 00:54, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Burton family (motorsport). – Fayenatic London 12:19, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Burton family to :Category:?

:Nominator's rationale: Ambiguously named category. This was intended for four related people involved in the sport of auto racing (two father-son pairs where the fathers are brothers), but within the past couple of days somebody tried to file several politicians named Burton (who were obviously related to each other, but not verifiably to the racers at all) in here, before noticing the problem and then replacing it with a non-existent redlinked {{cl|Burton family of California}}.
There may be a case that this should just be deleted as WP:OCASSOC -- OCAT doesn't completely ban "family relation" categories outright, but it does suggest that the bar for when one is warranted is considerably higher than just "a handful of family members have articles", and requires some evidence that the family routinely get discussed and covered collectively as a family in the sources -- but I wasn't prepared to formulate a deletion argument since I don't know enough about them to know whether that bar is passable here or not (though obviously I won't stand in the way if consensus does lean more in that direction). But at the very least, if it is kept it does need to be named more clearly and unambiguously due to the existence of other unrelated Burton families. Bearcat (talk) 18:41, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

• Delete, the articles are already directly interlinked. If kept, rename to e.g. :Category:Burton motorsports family. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:12, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: Delete or rename?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 14:01, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per Marcocapelle. --woodensuperman 14:26, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep, but add a WP:CAT#category description, clarifying intended membership. Per WP:CAAP, I think an article could be written about this family, so even though such article does not exist (yet), this seems to be a "keep". And we don't need to disambiguate, unless/until there are other cats to disambiguate with. - jc37 00:43, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• : If kept we should definitely disambiguate, there are plenty of different Burtons. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:49, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
• ::Thanks. My comments were intended to suggest that we should disambiguate (if necessary), but apparently, they were less-than clear on that. My apologies. Thanks again for the clarification. - jc37 23:40, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
• :Usage notes on categories don't tend to work all that well at keeping them clean of wrong entries — people routinely just add whatever categories they think applicable and walk away without actually reading the usage notes to see if they're doing it wrong, so even categories with usage notes still routinely have to be monitored and cleaned up for wrong usage. So if we want to keep the category, then it does need to be at a clear and unequivocal name, because a simple usage note won't accomplish jack spit. Bearcat (talk) 22:09, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
• ::Perhaps not for the more "enthusiastic" editors, but I think adding cat descriptions still is effective for many if not most editors, and - more importantly - for our readers. - jc37 23:40, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
• Rename to :Category:Burton family (auto racing):Category:Burton family (motorsport). Four articles is enough for a family cat, and as Bearcat points out, this does need dabbing. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:37, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
• :If we're going to disambiguate, we should probably use what's on other articles and categories (e.g. :Category:Drifting (motorsport), Endurance racing (motorsport)). It looks like it's (motorsport). - jc37 23:40, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
• ::Good catch, updated, thnanks. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:08, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 05:58, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Category:Ice exoplanets}}

:Nominator's rationale: Purely speculative category with no clear inclusion criteria. None of these planets is known to have a solid icy surface. Some of them could have rocky surfaces, liquid water oceans at the surface, or be mini-Neptunes with no surface. SevenSpheres (talk) 18:52, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 13:58, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Delete - Are there any verifiable reliable sources for these? If not, then this is merely WP:OR, and should be deleted. - jc37 18:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: speedy delete. G4 The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:41, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Eurovision commentators}}

:Nominator's rationale: WP:PERFCAT --woodensuperman 11:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:31, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• Delete this one, and its parent :Category:Eurovision Song Contest people, and the rest of the parent's subcats, per WP:PERFCAT, as the nom noted. - jc37 00:48, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• :I'm with you on the conductors, but would the "people" category not be valid if it only includes the executives/organisers? And would it not be defining for the contestants? --woodensuperman 08:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• ::Fair enough on the businesspeople. But the commentators cat seem to fall under WP:OC#Performers by production or performance venue to me. If a Master of ceremonies or a Sports commentator, is a performer, surely these are. As for the contestants cat, I look at Contestant, and see "participant in a contest". Well, if the "contest" in question is a form of entertainment, then all participants being viewed for entertainment purposes are "performers". - jc37 16:03, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• :::I think that participating in a contest is slightly different from appearing on a television show about the contest. I mean, by all means nominate the contestants categories, but wouldn't want to lump them together with this nomination as the criteria would be different. --woodensuperman 16:36, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• ::::You're probably right that "contestants" could use a separate nom. - jc37 16:48, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
• Comment. I've just noticed this discussion: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 October 8#Category:Eurovision Song Contest presenters. Is this not essentially the same thing? Can it be speedied in this case? --woodensuperman 16:39, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

:: Speedy Delete per WP:G4, recreation of a page that was deleted per a deletion discussion. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:01, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 10:32, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Hispanic empresses and queens to :Category:Empresses and queens of Hispania

:Nominator's rationale: I think referring to them as "Hispanic" is likely to get confused/misunderstood as being someone who is Latino/Hispanic as an ethnicity rather than the leader of Hispania. ^SMason_Garrison 04:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Just delete, Hispania was a Roman province rather than an independent monarchy. The content of the category is all post-Hispania. If not deleted, a better name would be :Category:Queens in the Iberian Peninsula but there is no point in grouping queens of different countries together this way. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:20, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• :Smasongarrison? HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 05:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
• ::Delete's fine with me ^SMason_Garrison 06:06, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 05:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:People from Rájec-Jestřebí to :Category:People from Blansko District

:Nominator's rationale: Category with just one entry. Lost in Quebec (talk) 02:39, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:26, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 05:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Head-to-head arcade video games}}

:Nominator's rationale: per WP:NONDEF I looked through the articles to see that almost none of them use this rare term "Head-to-head". There is no page titled Head-to-head arcade game at the moment either and in turn this category is essentially just for any multiplayer arcade game; more specifically arcade-only games? Anyway, not defining. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 02:12, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

:Delete I fail to see the point of such a category. Is a game defined by having a multiplayer mode? Dimadick (talk) 01:13, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

::* A merge into both the multiplayer and arcade video games categories would be more helpful though, just not those exact categories, must be a subcategory of either one if already in the parent

::QuantumFoam66 (talk) 01:02, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 05:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Swedish politicians of Assyrian/Syriac descent to :Category:Swedish politicians of Assyrian descent

:Nominator's rationale: WP:Consistency across category names, similar to Swedish people of Assyrian descent Surayeproject3 (talk) 02:02, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 05:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Swedish people of Assyrian or Syriac descent to :Category:Swedish people of Assyrian descent

:Nominator's rationale: WP:Consistency across category names Surayeproject3 (talk) 02:02, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 05:56, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Martyrs of the Chinese Revolution}}

:Nominator's rationale: Category name is not even close to NPOV. Amigao (talk) 01:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Keep: This seems to be a more formalized term within Chinese-language writing. Wikipedia permits "martyr" as a categorization so long as it's recognized in reliable sources (eg :Category:Christian martyrs, :Category:Muslim martyrs) ~ Pbritti (talk) 04:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• :Another problem is that the category fails WP:PRECISION. Which revolution are we talking about? For example, the Chinese Communist Revolution or the 1911 Revolution? - Amigao (talk) 05:41, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• ::Relatedly, parent category :Category:Martyrs is itself a subcategory of :Category:Victims of religious intolerance, which really doesn't apply here. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 05:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• :::Of note, a somewhat similar discussion in the past for an "Iranian martyrs" category resulted in deletion. There is also a fair amount of WP:OVERLAPCAT with a category such as :Category:Communists executed by the Republic of China. Amigao (talk) 05:51, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• :::*"a subcategory of :Category:Victims of religious intolerance" Seriously? The main article Martyr specifies that the term covers people who suffered "persecution and death for advocating, renouncing, or refusing to renounce or advocate, a religious belief or other cause" The article specifically covers political martyrs, people who faced persecution for their support of independence movements, support of unionism, support for communism, support for civil rights movements, and support of revolutions. It is POV to prioritize religious martyrs over political onesDimadick (talk) 01:23, 18 December 2024 (UTC).
• ::::Striking my keep based on that precedent and redundancy with a more neutral existing alternative. Thanks for responding with such great evidence. ~ Pbritti (talk) 13:33, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• Delete - Religious martyrs are one thing. Political martyrs are much less clearly NPOV-definable. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 05:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per The Bushranger. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:42, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 05:56, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Alabama to :Category:Yacht clubs in Alabama (2/2 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Colorado to :Category:Yacht clubs in Colorado (1/1 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Connecticut to :Category:Yacht clubs in Connecticut (7/7 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Florida to :Category:Yacht clubs in Florida (7/9 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Georgia (U.S. state) to :Category:Yacht clubs in Georgia (U.S. state) (1/1 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Illinois to :Category:Yacht clubs in Illinois (3/3 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Indiana to :Category:Yacht clubs in Indiana (1/2 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Louisiana to :Category:Yacht clubs in Louisiana (2/2 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Maine to :Category:Yacht clubs in Maine (2/2 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Maryland to :Category:Yacht clubs in Maryland (0/2 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Massachusetts to :Category:Yacht clubs in Massachusetts (10/11 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Michigan to :Category:Yacht clubs in Michigan (7/8 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Mississippi to :Category:Yacht clubs in Mississippi (1/1 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in New Jersey to :Category:Yacht clubs in New Jersey (3/3 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in New York (state) to :Category:Yacht clubs in New York (state) (15/16 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Ohio to :Category:Yacht clubs in Ohio (3/4 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Oregon to :Category:Yacht clubs in Oregon (1/1 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Pennsylvania to :Category:Yacht clubs in Pennsylvania (2/2 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Rhode Island to :Category:Yacht clubs in Rhode Island (3/3 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Tennessee to :Category:Yacht clubs in Tennessee (1/1 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Texas to :Category:Yacht clubs in Texas (4/6 contents use "Yacht Club")

:** :Category:Sailing clubs in Wisconsin to :Category:Yacht clubs in Wisconsin (4/5 contents use "Yacht Club")

:Nominator's rationale: Following on from this discussion regarding parent :Category:Yacht clubs in the United States that resulted in that being kept. "Yacht club" is the WP:COMMONNAME for this sort of organization, and as demonstrated it is overwhelmingly the preference for the naming of these categories' contents. (The one exception, Maryland, has one that is questionable with regard to being in category scope, and the other's article begins "is a yacht club".) Accordingly these should be renamed to (a) reflect common useage and their contents and (b) maintain consistency with their parent category. (Note that categories for California, Washington (state), and Puerto Rico are already at "Yacht club" and do not need renaming.) - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• Earlier User:Yachty4000 proposed renaming in opposite direction, they said that the term Yachting is outdated. I do not have an opinion about that myself. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• All these "yacht clubs" would clearly argue otherwise! - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 08:30, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support: The overwhelming majority of clubs using "Yacht Club" is a compelling argument. ~ Pbritti (talk) 15:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nom.--User:Namiba 18:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Cossacks (video game series). Pinging User:The Bushranger to take care of the reparenting; I will do the purge. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 05:55, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Video games about Cossacks}}

:Nominator's rationale: This category was created a year ago by editor from well Ukrainian Wikipedia, though I can't handle this category being kept for what it currently looks like; it's pretty random trait for video games; and only contains 4 video games that just have "Cossacks" in the title which makes it way too obvious that they're about Coassacks. Perhaps you merge this category with :Category:Works about Cossacks or alternatively create a new category for :Category:Cossacks (video game series). QuantumFoam66 (talk) 01:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• To be fair, it being "way too obvious they're about [subject]" is kind of the definition of WP:DEFINING? That said, the one member that isn't part of the series doesn't appear to be defined by it, so rename to :Category:Cossacks (video game series), removing that member. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:51, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
• Rename and re-parent per The Bushranger. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:49, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 05:54, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Chaldean Americans to :Category:American people of Assyrian descent

:Nominator's rationale: Category fits better within the scope of American people of Assyrian descent, noting that Chaldean Catholics are ethnically Assyrian and category includes those from the United States Surayeproject3 (talk) 01:33, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

• If merged, probably keep a redirect. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:14, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.